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Old May 19, 2001, 02:23 PM   #1
Mike Irwin
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I just bought an EAA Witness in 10mm.

Yep, I've joined the unholy alliance.

Anyone load for this cartridge? Any pointers on powder?

I did a quick check and 231 is suitable for some applications, but its pretty evident that I'm going to have to get another powder to get higher-end loads out of this particular round.
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Old May 19, 2001, 03:26 PM   #2
Robert the41MagFan
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Winchester 231 works good and makes some really accurate loads with most any bullet, but the powder is dirty. Automatic may not like it after a while and you may not like cleaning it either.

IMR 800X and Accurate #9 are the top performing powders for the Ten. If you just want something accurate, clean and mild, Accurate #5 is the ticket. With number five, cleaning an auto can be done in as little as five to ten minutes. Clean the bore, brush the parts with a soft toothbrush and lubricate.

Robert
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Old May 19, 2001, 04:03 PM   #3
Mike Irwin
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Robert,

I've used nearly 10 pounds of 231 over the years in a variety of cartridges, and have never found it to be all that "dirty," but that's only judging it in comparison with Red Dot, Unique, and a very very little bit of Hodgdon Clays (which was the cleanest).

I do know that I've got between 400 & 500 reloads through my 45 right now with no cleaning, and while it's crummy, it's not choking. Well, except for the couple boxes of ammo that I crimped badly. Sigh.

You mention AA9 - is that a spherical powder? I was reading the Sierra manual, and it seemed to show good loads using AA9.

Also, I saw a very very nice Model 57 8 3/8" at the show today.

I passed on it, though. The owner wanted $700 for it!
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Old May 19, 2001, 04:50 PM   #4
bfoster
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I note with interest that IMR has recently reduced the maximum recommended charge of 800X from 9.7 to 8.7 grains for Win 180 grain JHP bullets in Rem cases with the Rem 2 1/2 primer at 1.250" OAL. The pressure given in the 8/96 edition of the IMR Handloaders guide which the 9.7 grain charge came from is 34,200 psi. The current recommendation on IMR's webside is dated 8/8/2000, and gives the 8.7 grain charge a peak pressure of 30,000 psi.

Oddly enough, Hornady has increased the maximum recommended charge for the 180 grain XTP from 8.8 grains of 800X as published in the fourth edition of their Loading Manual to a charge of 10.1 grains of 800X in the fifth edition of their Loading Manual. A Hornady case with Win WLP's at 1.260" OAL was used in both instances. No pressure data is given.

For years I have used a 9.0 grain charge of 800X with Win brass, Rem 2 1/2 primers, and the Hornady 180 grain XTP at 1.250" OAL. In my pressure gun this develops 32,400 psi (M43), well below the maximum SAMMI pressure of 36,000 psi. In my Colt this is a very accurate load. Speed from the Colt runs close to 1220 fps with an unusually small standard deviation. Crimp this load snugly. I have not found abnormal lot to lot variations in any of these components, but this does not mean that there are not potential hazards.

Bob
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Old May 19, 2001, 08:03 PM   #5
Robert the41MagFan
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Mike,

Compared to the more modern powders, 231 is pretty dirty. I still use it though, too versatile of a powder to ignore. Most all of my target loads (40/10mm, 41, 44 and 45) still use 231 Winchester.

Accurate #9 is a very fine ball powder. A good powder dispenser is a must. The IMR 800X is a cylindrical flake similar to the Red or Green Dot powders.

I try not to even look at those guns anymore, everyone wants a fortune for mint used S&W's. Been looking for a four inch (non mountain gun) for my collection and no luck. Ended up having a gun cut. One day when my gun smith gets organized, he'll get it finished and may get it back. Did get lucky yesterday and got a Sig P220 in 38 Super. Now I have all the caliber's with an American release. Yahoo!

Robert
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Old May 19, 2001, 08:18 PM   #6
bigboredave
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I use 2400 around 12 grains with a 180gr lead bullet. I would suggest a 20lb recoil spring to keep the emptys out of orbit!!!
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Old May 19, 2001, 09:14 PM   #7
Mike Irwin
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Robert,

Funny you should mention .38 Super. I see that EAA also offers conversion kits for this gun in that caliber.

All I apparently need is a new slide, barrel, and magazine.

I'm seriously thinking of doing this.

I've always been interested in the .38 Super.
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"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

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Old May 19, 2001, 11:30 PM   #8
Robert the41MagFan
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Mike,

Really funny is that I was on my way to the store to call RSR and order a EAA Carry Comp in 10mm. Guy showed up with this Sig in 38 Super and I went nuts. He needed to sell and I gracefully obliged. There went my 10mm Auto money!

Thirty-eight Super is suppose to be a fun cartridge to load for, especially with the bullet selection available. Bullets weights go from 80 grains all the way up to 160 grain. Already had 38 Super cases in +P and now all I need are the dies.

Have a EAA/Tangfoglio Limited HC in 38 Super on my "to buy list", but I've got this problem of too many guns on that shopping list and not enough money.

Robert
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Old May 20, 2001, 04:50 PM   #9
tstr
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I've gone through the gambit of powders for my 10mm which is a Glock 20.

W231 will not produce the velocity and power desirable for a full power 10mm round. It works well though if you want to shoot IPSC or targets or anything calling for a light load.

800X produces great loads, but it meters terribly. I decided not to use it for that reason. It would regularly be as much as .3 grains above or below my desired load weight. I suspect that is why most load manuals list the maximum weight well below maximum pressure levels.

Blue Dot is not as good as 800X and meters just as poorly.

AA#5 was okay but did not work at all in my Glock. Some people have had good luck with it so it might be worth a try, but the powder would not burn completely causing my gun works to be terribly fouled after just 50 rounds. It would also leave bits of powder in the chamber so my brass would come out pitted. I tried different powder weights and different primer types, but nothing remedied the problem for me.

Ultimately, I've found Alliant Power Pistol to be the best. It burns clean and produces all the power you want. I had to install an aftermarket heavy slide spring in my Glock to use it. The only disadvantage I've found is that none of my local stores carry it.

Tstr
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