melting lead part 2 - Page 2

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · January 26, 2010, 07:10 PM

This post is to the OP:

I personally am sorry if you were ever confused. To answer your question: Lead does NOT vaporize at temperatures we use for casting/smelting. Are there minimal amounts of lead vapors when melting lead for casting?? NO, there are not. So, you are safe casting indoors if you want to. A fan is not a bad idea to blow the smoke from the FLUX outside if you don't want to stink up your house. Does this smoke contain lead vapors? NO, it does not. There are NO lead vapors when casting. The only time you WILL get vapors is if your pot gets EXTREMELY hot, which all commercial casting pots don't come near to that, even when run WIDE OPEN. Lead vapors occur only at extreme temperatures...NOT at the temperatures we cast at. I hope this helps and welcome to the world of casting!

1chig · January 26, 2010, 07:43 PM

thank you illinoiscoyotiehunter, I think you just cleared it up for me. They say minimal vapor then you said dalse meaning there were NO vapores heating in the pot we use. I understand now . thank you

mcdonl · February 2, 2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

been at it forever, been at it forever, been at it forever, been at it forever, and no psycholgical issues yet

Except repeating yourself?

okiefarmer · February 2, 2010, 03:10 PM

OK, I feel better now. Dang snow from this global warming still covering the ground, so I'm going back to the garage (sans fan, but listening to Rush and Hannity) and trying to thin down this ingot pile. Wife wants it moved, and this'll be the third time. I'm tired of moving it.

On a good note though, what I don't get cast into boolits, the rest will be in it's final resting place until cast up at some point in the future. She allowed me to take over our 8X16 portable wood building for my realoading room, away from the house. Just need to run power to it now. I have so much brass and other reloading stuff out there now, there is barely room for the lawnmower and other yard stuff. Stuff, Stuff,Stuff, Stuff When will we stop collecting stuff

I think the issue, although resolved was mainly over the simple word "MINIMAL". Mr. Mud man used it, ICH throwed the graph thingy up to veryify that there is "NO" fumes, not MINIMAL,(I missed the real intent too) and that's when the fight started. Ya see, we can't often even understand each other and we know what we are talking about most of the time. Obama counts on this misunderstanding his plans, as it appears half (becoming less all the time) still believe he can spend this country into prosperity. I guess I could do my part in helping out by buying all factory (ripoff) ammo, but have always been a miser, so he'll get no help from me.

Elkins45 · March 21, 2010, 09:18 AM

Sorry to resurrect an older thread, but I thought I might be able to add a tiny bit to the discussion.

I read the chart that says Pb vaporizes at 1750C and I don't dispute the information it contains. However, the vaporization temperature refers to the boiling point of any individual atom, not just the mass as a whole. Just because your whole pot of lead isn't boiling doesn't mean that individual atoms aren't receiving enough energy to escape the pot.

Want an example? Leave a glass of water on the countertop for a few days. It goes away, doesn't it? How is that possible, since the water was never heated to its boiling point? It happens because even though the AVERAGE thermal energy of the substance is below the vaporization point, individual molecules absorb enough energy to leave the glass.

Why can't a pot of hot liquid lead evaporate below its boiling point just the same as a cup of cool water? The answer is that it can. The only thing slowing the process is the heavier atomic weight of the Pb.

I have no idea how much lead this puts into the atmosphere, but my guess is that it isn't much. Still, since Pb is a cumulative toxin that's not something I would expose myself to if a simple fan in the window could lessen my risk.

Please don't think I'm being superior--when I first started casting it was with an electric hotplate in my Dad's unventilated basement. I spent hours there happily casting with no ventilation at all. That was 25 years ago and there have been no ill effects I'm aware of. But now that I know the stuff I mentioned above, I wouldn't do it again.

Edward429451 · March 21, 2010, 12:21 PM

I missed the other thread but I understand what he and the article said.

He really doesn't contradict himself if you pay attenion.

...minimal lead fumes...false... meant false as in zero, not minimal, not any.

Maybe professors shouldn't teach kindergarden, that's the trouble here

Ed_ · March 21, 2010, 01:15 PM

Water molecules are actually lighter than air molecules. Molecular weight 18 as compared to 28 for nitrogen and 32 for oxygen.

Water evaporates into the atmospere, forms into ice falls melts and rains

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · March 21, 2010, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Maybe professors shouldn't teach kindergarden, that's the trouble here

*Snickering*

TXGunNut · March 21, 2010, 04:09 PM

I'm new to this fascinating aspect of the shooting sports so safety gets my undivided attention. Having a little fun to make a point is good, hope we all learned something. Fear of airborne lead kept me from casting for many years and molten lead still scares me.

Elkins45 · March 21, 2010, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Water molecules are actually lighter than air molecules. Molecular weight 18 as compared to 28 for nitrogen and 32 for oxygen.

Water evaporates into the atmospere, forms into ice falls melts and rains

Doesn't the kinetic energy of the molecule enter into the equation? I understand the density difference, but won't enough KE overcome that?

Ed_ · March 22, 2010, 07:12 AM

I actually am not a chemical engineer*. I googled it.I have know Idea what I am talking about. If I put a glass of water on my counter top next to a lead bullet for 24 hours. When I return I will find there will be less water and the same amount of lead.

* [I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once]

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · March 22, 2010, 07:02 PM

Quote:

I actually am not a chemical engineer*. I googled it.I have know Idea what I am talking about. If I put a glass of water on my counter top next to a lead bullet for 24 hours. When I return I will find there will be less water and the same amount of lead.

* [I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once]

Now that's just funny, I don't care who ya are!

Elkins45 · March 23, 2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

I actually am not a chemical engineer*. I googled it.I have know Idea what I am talking about. If I put a glass of water on my counter top next to a lead bullet for 24 hours. When I return I will find there will be less water and the same amount of lead.

Next time, try it with solid water and liquid lead.

January 26, 2010, 07:10 PM	#26
IllinoisCoyoteHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 1,527	This post is to the OP: I personally am sorry if you were ever confused. To answer your question: Lead does NOT vaporize at temperatures we use for casting/smelting. Are there minimal amounts of lead vapors when melting lead for casting?? NO, there are not. So, you are safe casting indoors if you want to. A fan is not a bad idea to blow the smoke from the FLUX outside if you don't want to stink up your house. Does this smoke contain lead vapors? NO, it does not. There are NO lead vapors when casting. The only time you WILL get vapors is if your pot gets EXTREMELY hot, which all commercial casting pots don't come near to that, even when run WIDE OPEN. Lead vapors occur only at extreme temperatures...NOT at the temperatures we cast at. I hope this helps and welcome to the world of casting! __________________ ~~IllinoisCoyoteHunter~~ ~NRA LIFE MEMBER~ ~NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR~

January 26, 2010, 07:43 PM	#27
1chig Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2009 Location: central missouri Posts: 246	thank you illinoiscoyotiehunter, I think you just cleared it up for me. They say minimal vapor then you said dalse meaning there were NO vapores heating in the pot we use. I understand now . thank you __________________ those who anger you are those who control you!!!!

March 21, 2010, 01:15 PM	#32
Ed_ Member Join Date: January 27, 2009 Location: Southwest Missouri Posts: 96	Water molecules are actually lighter than air molecules. Molecular weight 18 as compared to 28 for nitrogen and 32 for oxygen. Water evaporates into the atmospere, forms into ice falls melts and rains Last edited by Ed_; March 21, 2010 at 01:26 PM.

March 21, 2010, 04:09 PM	#34
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	I'm new to this fascinating aspect of the shooting sports so safety gets my undivided attention. Having a little fun to make a point is good, hope we all learned something. Fear of airborne lead kept me from casting for many years and molten lead still scares me. __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

February 2, 2010, 03:10 PM	#29
okiefarmer Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 381	OK, I feel better now. Dang snow from this global warming still covering the ground, so I'm going back to the garage (sans fan, but listening to Rush and Hannity) and trying to thin down this ingot pile. Wife wants it moved, and this'll be the third time. I'm tired of moving it. On a good note though, what I don't get cast into boolits, the rest will be in it's final resting place until cast up at some point in the future. She allowed me to take over our 8X16 portable wood building for my realoading room, away from the house. Just need to run power to it now. I have so much brass and other reloading stuff out there now, there is barely room for the lawnmower and other yard stuff. Stuff, Stuff,Stuff, Stuff When will we stop collecting stuff I think the issue, although resolved was mainly over the simple word "MINIMAL". Mr. Mud man used it, ICH throwed the graph thingy up to veryify that there is "NO" fumes, not MINIMAL,(I missed the real intent too) and that's when the fight started. Ya see, we can't often even understand each other and we know what we are talking about most of the time. Obama counts on this misunderstanding his plans, as it appears half (becoming less all the time) still believe he can spend this country into prosperity. I guess I could do my part in helping out by buying all factory (ripoff) ammo, but have always been a miser, so he'll get no help from me.

March 21, 2010, 09:18 AM	#30
Elkins45 Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2010 Posts: 498	Sorry to resurrect an older thread, but I thought I might be able to add a tiny bit to the discussion. I read the chart that says Pb vaporizes at 1750C and I don't dispute the information it contains. However, the vaporization temperature refers to the boiling point of any individual atom, not just the mass as a whole. Just because your whole pot of lead isn't boiling doesn't mean that individual atoms aren't receiving enough energy to escape the pot. Want an example? Leave a glass of water on the countertop for a few days. It goes away, doesn't it? How is that possible, since the water was never heated to its boiling point? It happens because even though the AVERAGE thermal energy of the substance is below the vaporization point, individual molecules absorb enough energy to leave the glass. Why can't a pot of hot liquid lead evaporate below its boiling point just the same as a cup of cool water? The answer is that it can. The only thing slowing the process is the heavier atomic weight of the Pb. I have no idea how much lead this puts into the atmosphere, but my guess is that it isn't much. Still, since Pb is a cumulative toxin that's not something I would expose myself to if a simple fan in the window could lessen my risk. Please don't think I'm being superior--when I first started casting it was with an electric hotplate in my Dad's unventilated basement. I spent hours there happily casting with no ventilation at all. That was 25 years ago and there have been no ill effects I'm aware of. But now that I know the stuff I mentioned above, I wouldn't do it again.

March 21, 2010, 12:21 PM	#31
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I missed the other thread but I understand what he and the article said. He really doesn't contradict himself if you pay attenion. ...minimal lead fumes...false... meant false as in zero, not minimal, not any. Maybe professors shouldn't teach kindergarden, that's the trouble here

March 22, 2010, 07:12 AM	#36
Ed_ Member Join Date: January 27, 2009 Location: Southwest Missouri Posts: 96	I actually am not a chemical engineer. I googled it.I have know Idea what I am talking about. If I put a glass of water on my counter top next to a lead bullet for 24 hours. When I return I will find there will be less water and the same amount of lead. [I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once]