Holo/Red dot sights

ks_wayward_son · December 10, 2009, 09:37 PM

Another gear question. Eventually plan on mounting either a holosight or red dot sight to my new AR. I know that after investing quite a sum of money on the rifle itself in the first place, I don't intend using bottom barrel optics. BUT, I don't think I want to shell out half a grand or higher for an EO Tech or Aim Point if a can find a solid, more cost efficient alternative. What are some other alternatives that you guys have used or maybe could recommend? Is ATN worth a darn? What about Burris, and I saw that Walther makes a red dot scope as well.

RUT · December 10, 2009, 09:41 PM

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/...FYZM5QodFTv7Lw

(BH) · December 10, 2009, 10:12 PM

I would recommend just spending the $300-$350 on an Eotech.

If that's just simply out of the question, go for the poor man's Eotech: the Bushnell Holosight. It's made by Eotech and is essentially the same except it doesn't have the aluminum shell. They cost around $250 (possibly $200) and function the same as an Eotech.

I looked into them before I bought my Eotech and I think, as far as shooting is concerned, they would be about the same. However, I'd rather spend a little extra and know that my device is extremely durable.

rjrivero · December 10, 2009, 10:21 PM

I've really been impressed with my brother's Millett DMS scope. It's a variable power 1-4 x 24. Illuminated Recticle. Though not a TRUE 1x on the low end, (No magnification scope is truly 1x) it points quickly with two eyes open, and a quick twist of the objective and you can effectively engage targets out to 300 yards without much difficulty.

If the batteries go down, you have the standard scope recticle which is still useable in daylight conditions.

Of course, unlike the true holographic sights, consistant cheek weld is a must for pinpoint accuracy, especially at range.

With the right mount, they'll co-witness in the bottom 1/3 of the field of view.

You can get them for as low as $219. Last summer they were about $200. The little scope works really well in the 3 gun events we shoot together.

ks_wayward_son · December 10, 2009, 11:11 PM

Good point about the philosophy of use, rjrivero. I would primarily use the optic for target shooting and/or varmint hunting. So, with the target shooting the adjustable reticle would be handy, although for quick shots with varmits, the holo sight would also be nice with the extra field of view. Thanks so far for all the suggestions every one.

omega · December 11, 2009, 04:24 AM

Surely no EoTech, the little Burris FastFire is an excellent choice for a small, compact red-dot. As the name implies, allows a really quick acquisition and follow-up shot at a reasonable price.

Sixer · December 11, 2009, 06:15 AM

Bushnell HoloSight (made by EoTech) is a slightly less expensive option. I had an ATN red dot sight that was garbage. The screw used to adjust it was stripped and ATN customer service was no help at all.

I'll never buy from ATN again.

PSU87 · December 12, 2009, 12:58 AM

As an employee of another L-3 (the parent company of Eotech) division, I was able to purchase an Eotech at a SUBSTANTIAL discount. I put it on my M-4gery

I'm a little bit disappointed as the reticule is a bit fuzzy. It is also a rather large and heavy unit.

On the plus side, it's about as easy as it gets for two eyes open shooting, and being holographic, you get true parallax free performance. Really is great in that regard, better than the Aimpoint I have on my other AR.

However, if I had paid full price, not sure I would have been happy with it.

WeedWacker · December 12, 2009, 04:31 AM

I have an EOTech 512 and yes it seems fuzzy if you attempt to focus directly on the holo display. If you look through it it clears up. Co-witnessing further clears up the fuzz. I seem to remember reading in the manual there was a focus design to how the image was projected on the display. But that may be my sleep deprived brain telling me things. I picked my sight up for about $350

Looked and found it here on the FAQ's

http://www.eotech-inc.com/technicalfaqs.php

Quote:

My circle is fuzzy/hazy. Why is this?

That question about our reticle is common. What people usually see on-line or in advertisements are graphic representations of the reticle. What you are seeing is likely normal. The outer circle of the reticle is made up of hundreds of pixels (small dots that form together to make a larger image). This pixilation is key to being able to see the hologram properly, and is inherent in the technology. You should see the center dot as a single MOA.

A couple things might help make the image appear more distinct:

* If you see the image blurry, fuzzy, distorted, having a double image, or having a 'starburst' effect, this usually means the brightness intensity level is up too high for the lighting conditions you're using it in. Dim down the brightness until the reticle is slightly see-through. The outer circle is designed as your reference to center, and acts similar to a ghost ring.
* The reticle is projected out to your target plane. If you pick up a target that is very close (like a photo on the wall), your eyes might not focus properly on the image. Pick up sight pictures 25 to 30 yards out until you become accustomed to the sight. Try them at different eye reliefs, and certainly try these things once the sight is mounted on a weapon.
* If you require corrective lenses (glasses or contacts) to see things clearly at a distance, you will need them to see the reticle clearly. Remember, the reticle is actually projected out to your target plane, so you will see it like anything else at that distance. Also, if you have astigmatism or use bifocals, you may see the image less distinctly.
* Use the sight outdoors, and if possible at the range. Actually acquiring targets with the sight will help your eyes focus properly on the reticle.

Bold mine.

flcaptainbill · December 12, 2009, 12:00 PM

PSU87,

How many are you allowed to purchase at that discount?

armoredman · December 12, 2009, 12:59 PM

I like my EOTech, permits very rapid target aquisition. I am no great shot, but this was rapid fire at 25 yards with my vz-58 and Wulf ammo yesterday morning. Every time I slid back on target very quickly with the EOTech.

Like I said, I am no great rifleman, but for rapid fire, I think this will work.

(BH) · December 12, 2009, 05:35 PM

Yep, I just got back from shooting with my Eotech on my M&P15, and I easily blew out a quarter sized bullseye at 25 yards rapid fire. Fast target acquisition is better with an Eotech than anything I've ever shot with. If it's fuzzy, it's because you're not focusing correctly or you have the brightness turned up way too high.

Scratch4x4 · December 13, 2009, 03:25 AM

I have a cheap BSA stealth tactical on my AR, got it from Cheaper Than Dirt. Its about 65 bucks for the red dot only sight without the laser and light attachments. Its a bit bulky, but i gotta say, im impressed with it until i can afford a C-more ATAC, about the price of an EOTech/Aimpoint. My BSA actually holds a zero REALLY well until you put it back in the case, as the windage/elevation knobs are uncovered with prongs that snag and adjust it for you while your toting the gun around if your not careful. Other than that, its easy to Zero, stays on target through many rounds, and its pretty fast target aquisition. Just a suggestion on a lower end but acceptable red dot sight.

Scratch4x4 · December 13, 2009, 03:50 AM

Wow, Thanks alot for the link RUT, i just checked out that sight and had to order one. Ill post again after i get it and sight it in. Looks and seems like a GREAT sight for a wonderful price!

RUT · December 13, 2009, 07:34 AM

Well, for the money, it's a lotta scope. Mine has worked out just fine so far, although I did replace the included mount with a Larue LT-129. (just for the heck of it) My usage is limited to occasional range plinking, so it'll do the job for me. And, if it does crap out on me sometime in the future then I'll go ahead and get an Aimpoint!

Good luck........

December 10, 2009, 09:37 PM	#1
ks_wayward_son Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2007 Posts: 332	Holo/Red dot sights Another gear question. Eventually plan on mounting either a holosight or red dot sight to my new AR. I know that after investing quite a sum of money on the rifle itself in the first place, I don't intend using bottom barrel optics. BUT, I don't think I want to shell out half a grand or higher for an EO Tech or Aim Point if a can find a solid, more cost efficient alternative. What are some other alternatives that you guys have used or maybe could recommend? Is ATN worth a darn? What about Burris, and I saw that Walther makes a red dot scope as well.

December 10, 2009, 10:12 PM	#3
(BH) Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: East TN Posts: 638	I would recommend just spending the $300-$350 on an Eotech. If that's just simply out of the question, go for the poor man's Eotech: the Bushnell Holosight. It's made by Eotech and is essentially the same except it doesn't have the aluminum shell. They cost around $250 (possibly $200) and function the same as an Eotech. I looked into them before I bought my Eotech and I think, as far as shooting is concerned, they would be about the same. However, I'd rather spend a little extra and know that my device is extremely durable. __________________ It matters not how a man dies, but how he lives. The act of dying is not of importance, it lasts so short a time. -Samuel Johnson

December 10, 2009, 10:21 PM	#4
rjrivero Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 1,399	What kind of ranges are you looking at shooting? I've really been impressed with my brother's Millett DMS scope. It's a variable power 1-4 x 24. Illuminated Recticle. Though not a TRUE 1x on the low end, (No magnification scope is truly 1x) it points quickly with two eyes open, and a quick twist of the objective and you can effectively engage targets out to 300 yards without much difficulty. If the batteries go down, you have the standard scope recticle which is still useable in daylight conditions. Of course, unlike the true holographic sights, consistant cheek weld is a must for pinpoint accuracy, especially at range. With the right mount, they'll co-witness in the bottom 1/3 of the field of view. You can get them for as low as $219. Last summer they were about $200. The little scope works really well in the 3 gun events we shoot together.

December 11, 2009, 04:24 AM	#6
omega Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2009 Location: homeless Posts: 140	Surely no EoTech, the little Burris FastFire is an excellent choice for a small, compact red-dot. As the name implies, allows a really quick acquisition and follow-up shot at a reasonable price. __________________ end up with the right regrets

December 11, 2009, 06:15 AM	#7
Sixer Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2008 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,891	Bushnell HoloSight (made by EoTech) is a slightly less expensive option. I had an ATN red dot sight that was garbage. The screw used to adjust it was stripped and ATN customer service was no help at all. I'll never buy from ATN again. __________________ Hopp Custom Leather <------ click for HOLSTER awesomeness!! -There is no theory of evolution... Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

December 10, 2009, 09:41 PM	#2
RUT Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2004 Location: NH, USA Posts: 812	http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/...FYZM5QodFTv7Lw

December 10, 2009, 11:11 PM	#5
ks_wayward_son Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2007 Posts: 332	Good point about the philosophy of use, rjrivero. I would primarily use the optic for target shooting and/or varmint hunting. So, with the target shooting the adjustable reticle would be handy, although for quick shots with varmits, the holo sight would also be nice with the extra field of view. Thanks so far for all the suggestions every one.

December 12, 2009, 12:58 AM	#8
PSU87 Junior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 11	Not completely thrilled with Eotech As an employee of another L-3 (the parent company of Eotech) division, I was able to purchase an Eotech at a SUBSTANTIAL discount. I put it on my M-4gery I'm a little bit disappointed as the reticule is a bit fuzzy. It is also a rather large and heavy unit. On the plus side, it's about as easy as it gets for two eyes open shooting, and being holographic, you get true parallax free performance. Really is great in that regard, better than the Aimpoint I have on my other AR. However, if I had paid full price, not sure I would have been happy with it.

December 12, 2009, 12:00 PM	#10
flcaptainbill Member Join Date: September 5, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 26	PSU87, How many are you allowed to purchase at that discount?

December 12, 2009, 12:59 PM	#11
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,297	I like my EOTech, permits very rapid target aquisition. I am no great shot, but this was rapid fire at 25 yards with my vz-58 and Wulf ammo yesterday morning. Every time I slid back on target very quickly with the EOTech. Like I said, I am no great rifleman, but for rapid fire, I think this will work.

December 12, 2009, 05:35 PM	#12
(BH) Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: East TN Posts: 638	Yep, I just got back from shooting with my Eotech on my M&P15, and I easily blew out a quarter sized bullseye at 25 yards rapid fire. Fast target acquisition is better with an Eotech than anything I've ever shot with. If it's fuzzy, it's because you're not focusing correctly or you have the brightness turned up way too high. __________________ It matters not how a man dies, but how he lives. The act of dying is not of importance, it lasts so short a time. -Samuel Johnson

December 13, 2009, 03:25 AM	#13
Scratch4x4 Junior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Childress, TX Posts: 10	I have a cheap BSA stealth tactical on my AR, got it from Cheaper Than Dirt. Its about 65 bucks for the red dot only sight without the laser and light attachments. Its a bit bulky, but i gotta say, im impressed with it until i can afford a C-more ATAC, about the price of an EOTech/Aimpoint. My BSA actually holds a zero REALLY well until you put it back in the case, as the windage/elevation knobs are uncovered with prongs that snag and adjust it for you while your toting the gun around if your not careful. Other than that, its easy to Zero, stays on target through many rounds, and its pretty fast target aquisition. Just a suggestion on a lower end but acceptable red dot sight. __________________ "A man in uniform is just an extension of another man's will." "If it left a scar, it was worth it!"

December 13, 2009, 03:50 AM	#14
Scratch4x4 Junior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Childress, TX Posts: 10	Wow, Thanks alot for the link RUT, i just checked out that sight and had to order one. Ill post again after i get it and sight it in. Looks and seems like a GREAT sight for a wonderful price! __________________ "A man in uniform is just an extension of another man's will." "If it left a scar, it was worth it!"

December 13, 2009, 07:34 AM	#15
RUT Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2004 Location: NH, USA Posts: 812	Well, for the money, it's a lotta scope. Mine has worked out just fine so far, although I did replace the included mount with a Larue LT-129. (just for the heck of it) My usage is limited to occasional range plinking, so it'll do the job for me. And, if it does crap out on me sometime in the future then I'll go ahead and get an Aimpoint! Good luck........