Automatic powder measures

[ECM4]

I’ve only loaded a few rifle rounds for .223 learning to do rifle rounds. I stick with pistol mostly but want to start reloading for 7mm wsm and 6.5 creedmoor. I’m looking at auto powder measures. Right now I just use a Hornady lock n load powder measure that came with my single stage press. What do you guys like and have had good luck with? I hate measuring out powder to exact amounts. Pistols I don’t care if I’m off a-little because I’m never at min or max levels I just throw the powder and give the cases a look over to eyeball it before I seat a bullet. but want these to be exact without the headache of trickling powder by hand.

[hounddawg]

if you are using ball or flake why not just go with a throw? Almost all of the major players make them and each will have it's fan club. Just pick your preferred color

[Mr.RevolverGuy]

I have come to trust them and I would say they all are nice it depends on what features you are looking for. Here is a review of the RCBS chargemaster and the Frankford arsenal. To be fair this FA unit has been replaced by them because of the drift.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S07De2BG_Oc&t=1s

After getting the new unit -- I am impressed.

[ECM4]

The only rifle ammo I have loaded was .223 with varget and my powder measure was throwing it +/- .3 all the time. Never consistent with the powder. It was driving me nuts and decided not to buy the dies for my other rifles but want to start Loading for them now just want to try to limit the headache and get more consistent with each round.

[Bart B.]

If you use the right extruded powder and measure, thrown charges to a 2/10ths grain spread can produce 2/3rds MOA or better accuracy through 600 yards. 1/3rd MOA or better often at 100 yards.

If the other cartridge components are of good quality and assembly, the rifle is built right and its user implements excellent marksmanship skills.

[603Country]

For 223, I’ve settled on H335 powder for 40, 55, 60, 64, and 65 gr bullets. The powder flows smoothly and works well in my Lyman 55 and in my Lyman electronic measure. The electronic measure works very well with the H335, and throws the desired load 80% of the time, otherwise being 0.1 high or low. However, with stick powders like H4831, IMR4064, and Varget, I have to set low and trickle to the desired load about half the time. Happily, the Lyman has a built in trickler.

I reloaded happily with the Lyman 55 manual unit, but it was a slow process. With the electronic thrower, reloading is much faster. That fact was brought home during the last loading session, when the Lyman electronic finally died and I had to go back to using the manual thrower.

So, on my workbench is my NIB RCBS Chargemaster Combo. I’m going out to do some test loads, cross checking with my PACT electronic scale.

I suggest a good electronic unit, but also have a separate scale for periodic checks of weight. Research recently suggested that the RCBS was probably the best unit, but I never had any problem in my years with the Lyman 1200 DPS II (till it died).

[Ben Dover]

IME, the auto-tricklers are a waste of time and money. Just throw the charges straight from a quality measure and you;re good to go.

[Bart B.]

For decades, Sierra has been metering charge weights with up to a 3/10ths grain spread shooting 10-shot test groups with their match bullets into 1/2 MOA maximum extreme spread at 200 yards. Best quality bullets would test inside 1/4 MOA. All with unprepped full length resized cases.

At their California plant's 100 yard range, same process often yielded test groups well under 2/10ths MOA.

Yes, they used rail guns to eliminate the variables we humans and our rifles have. Yet many rifle matches have been won and records set then broken using the same stuff and doing the same thing.

[rox]

Originally Posted by Bart B.

For decades, Sierra has been metering charge weights with up to a 3/10ths grain spread shooting 10-shot ... 1/2 MOA maximum...at 200 yards...100 yard range...under 2/10ths MOA.

What about 1000 yards? .3 grain spread still good for 1/2 MOA there?

[Unclenick]

The Lock N' Load measure should do just fine with all spherical rifle powders. For stick powders, I switched to the JDS Quick Measure which gives me stick powders ±0.1 grains most of the time and if solidly anchored. It now has a universal progressive press adapter available.

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by rox

What about 1000 yards? .3 grain spread still good for 1/2 MOA there?

Yes, sometimes it is. Note no rifle I know of has ever put all its fired shots in a half MOA at 1000. Once in a while for 5 or 10 shots, yes.

The 308 Win ammo for the 1992 World Palma Matches was made from new Winchester cases, Federal primers, IMR4895 with 3/10 grain spread and .003" bullet runout assembled on two Dillon 1050 progressive's that shot about 7 inches extreme spread about call at 1000 in several rifles as reported by those using it. It was tested at 600 yards with a rifle in an accuracy test cradle and put 20 shots in 2.8 inches ES.

If you look at the NBRSA and IBS 1000 yard several 10-shot group aggregates, the largest group of several is typically 1/4 to 1/3 bigger than the average of all which is the aggregate value.

[old roper]

Bart, you need to update Sierra location.

In 1990, we left our factory in Santa Fe Springs, California for a new beginning in Sedalia, Missouri. Armed with years of experience in the manufacturing and testing of quality bullets, we designed and built one of the industry's most advanced manufacturing facilities.

[Ben Dover]

Many years ago, I had a good friend that shot bullseye matches with me.

He shot a custom built (HIGH DOLLAR) Clark 1911 in .45 ACP. His ammo was loaded with an arbor press and custom built dies that were cut with the same reamer that cut his chamber.

He cleaned his brass, cleaned the primer pockets, hand primed, trimmed every case every reloading, weighed every jacketed bullet, trickled every powder charge, and recorded the lot number of his powder and primers.

His ammo was a beautiful thing to behold. In all of the years that we shot together, I do not recalll him ever winning a match.

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by old roper

Bart, you need to update Sierra location.

In 1990, we left our factory in Santa Fe Springs, California for a new beginning in Sedalia, Missouri. Armed with years of experience in the manufacturing and testing of quality bullets, we designed and built one of the industry's most advanced manufacturing facilities.

Tom, you need to update your reading comprehension. I knew Sierra was moving to Missouri and its 200 yard range before they left California over 2 decades (20 years) ago. Have toured both plants a few times.

[TimRB]

Originally Posted by Ben Dover

He cleaned his brass, cleaned the primer pockets, hand primed, trimmed every case every reloading, weighed every jacketed bullet, trickled every powder charge, and recorded the lot number of his powder and primers.

His ammo was a beautiful thing to behold. In all of the years that we shot together, I do not recall him ever winning a match.

Fair enough--it's certainly true that not everyone needs to take all the heroic measures building their ammo. On the other hand, your friend was at least able to say with confidence that his ammo wasn't the problem. Many competitive shooters do some of the crazy things just to have one less thing to worry about on the firing line.

Tim

[RC20]

I have been through the Lyama Gen 6, RCBS Light and the Hornady Lock and load.

Lyman has failed twice and is not dead.

Of the 3, the RCBS light was the best for ease of use and as good accuracy (maybe better on averge)

Hornady works well but you have to program the one parameter into it and that tune gets erased when you change charge levels.

The RCBS lite will do 1/10 or a grain. Occasionally it will overshoot, easy enough to dump back into the hopper.

About 20 seconds a charge and I can load bullets in done ones and find cases and label them.

[Unclenick]

RC20,

I think he means press-mounted automatic charge dropping mechanical measures. He says he hates to measure every charge exactly, so it doesn't seem likely the electronic measures are what he is after.

Originally Posted by Ben Dover

...I do not recall him ever winning a match.

He …trimmed every case every reloading

You may have stumbled on the source of the trouble. All the match ammo I've ever built in .45 Auto has had its cases shrink an average of 0.0005" every load cycle. This is using Dillon dies, mind you, which are admittedly on the tight side. But case growth in 45 Auto is something I've never seen. The pressure is too low to stick the brass to the chamber, so they just slide to the rear, inflate the head to fit the case taper, and then let the sizing die flow a little of that expansion permanently to the rear.

Originally Posted by TimRB

it's certainly true that not everyone needs to take all the heroic measures building their ammo. On the other hand, your friend was at least able to say with confidence that his ammo wasn't the problem.

I take every possible control step only when concocting test ammo. I solve the accuracy load choice with that, first, then start dropping the controls, half at a time, to isolate which ones actually made a difference. For handgun ammunition, as with rifle ammunition, there can be a measurable improvement from getting the bullets seated straight, but where rifle ammunition is improved by seating all bullets straight, the .45 Auto loads I've fired have only been improved with cast bullets. The same applies to seating 45 Auto cast bullets into the throat to ensure they enter the bore straight. It makes little difference with jacketed bullets. In rifle, throat contact sometimes helps with both bullet construction types and sometimes is detrimental with jacketed bullets as compared to having some jump.