Sphinx AT2000S Slide and Barrel

[Jarhead7173]

I'm looking for a slide and barrel for my full size AT2000S. .40 S&W preferred but will consider a 9mm.

[Walt Sherrill]

Lots of luck.

I've had several 2000 series Sphinxes over the years. They are great guns -- but WHOLE GUNS are rarer than hen's teeth, and I can't imagine how rare a complete slide might be. You might find it cheaper, if you do find a 2000 upper, to just buy a new production .40 version of the Sphinx SDP (if they're being imported, now.) I have one of those in 9mm, and it's a very nice gun.

I'm pretty sure you can't get a slide from Sphinx -- as Switzerland won't even let Sphinx export magazines and many other "critical" parts to individuals (you must work through an importer). You might try contacting KRISS-USA (the current Sphinx importer) to see if they know of a way to get hands on a 2000-series slide.

I don't know of any of the other CZ pattern gun slides that will fit on the Sphinx frame... I would have loved to fit a CZ Kadet Kit to my SDP, but it was not even close; and the Kadet Kit wouldn't work on the 2000 series guns, either.

[Rinspeed]

I've been looking for a complete pistol for years and I'm almost at the point to try the whole hassle of importing one although the thought doesn't sound like a lot of fun. They are the pinnacle of any of the CZ75 based pistols by far.

[Jarhead7173]

Thanks guys..

The slide cracked in 2002. Sphinx promised a free replacement but there was no importer at the time. I became
pen pals with a number of Sphinx employees while we waited for an importer. First there was Rocky Mountain
Armoury around 2005. Then there was Sabre. Neither was of any help, and there is some question as to whether either
imported >anything< from Sphinx. In 2012, Sphinx announced a pending relationship with Kriss. I've been pestering
Kriss since 2014, and have outlasted a number of the sales and customer support staff. Finally, I received notice
a couple weeks ago, from Kriss, that due to the bankruptcy of Sphinx (Switzerland) in 2016 no parts will [ever]
be avaliable (from Kriss).

It is true that AT2000 parts do not interchange with anything, except maybe the mags (CZ 75). In fact, earlier
in their production, the slide changed (wonder why...) and the 'old' barrels will not fit the newer slides, so
the entire upper needs to be replaced.

I know they offered 'conversion kits' which allowed the swapping of complete uppers, so the frame is compatible
with any upper. There is a posting, on this forum, from a couple years ago illustrating this compatibility.

I took the slide to a machinist/welder who specializes in pistols, but he is reluctant to touch it as he/we don't know
whether the slide is forged or cast, what the carbon content is, etc.

I'm trying to cultivate European contacts, but even if I find what I need, the import requirements may be
difficult. Interestingly enough, the BATF doesn't consider a slide to be a 'gun part' for import purposes (unlike the receiver/frame,
barrel, or mags) but the Swiss do ('war material').

So.. here I am.

[Walt Sherrill]

Originally Posted by Jarhead7173

I took the slide to a machinist/welder who specializes in pistols, but he is reluctant to touch it as he/we don't know whether the slide is forged or cast, what the carbon content is, etc.

I'm sorry to hear that Sphinxarms went into bankruptcy... (I had not heard that, but I had also NOT gotten any emails from Kriss reps over the past 6-7 months, when we had been communicating more regularly prior to that. I had one of the SDPs on loan for evaluation and review, and later bought it from them.)

Sphinx built superior weapons. The newer line of SDP guns (and the related 3000 series) were redesigned to be more easily and efficiently produced using a higher level of automation -- as the expert hand work that made the older Sphinx pistols so unique was one of the things that made the Sphinx line so expensive to produce.

That the slide cracked was surprising, and it's sad that the firm went under before you could get a replacement.

Every one of the older Sphinx guns I've owned, seen, handled, or read about here in the U.S. had a forged frame; there may be exceptions and I may have missed something obvious. The 2000 series guns were made of stainless steel, and cast stainless slides or frames in handguns seems to be relatively rare. As I understand it a cast slide simply wouldn't make sense as the slide is the part that takes a real beating, and forged from billets is the way to go for most larger caliber slides.

The fact that the slide is stainless might present unusual issues for your machinist, but it should also give him some idea of the slide's metal content. The slide and frame should be the same. He might be able to experiment with a less sensitive area of the frame (like under the grip) to see what works.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Sphinx line come back to life AGAIN one of these days under different management. There's a mystique associated with the name and the design, which was, in effect, a CZ on steroids.

If you choose not to get it repaired, you might recoup some of your original cost by parting the gun out -- barrel, frame, internal parts are all now made of unobtainium! But talk to your specialist: what do you have to lose? I'd probably tell him "do your best, and I won't fault you if you're unsuccessful!" Your 2000 series Sphinx is just a beautiful paperweight if it remains unrepaired or if the specialist can't fix it. If he can fix it, you'll at least have a working (if slightly less beautiful) weapon.

[Skans]

That's exactly what I would do - part out the gun and use the funds toward replacing it. You will be much happier in the long run. Parts should fetch good prices. AT2000's show up now and then on gunbroker, but are becoming less frequent. They sell in the $2K range now.

[Jarhead7173]

To be clear... Kriss USA is not bankrupt: http://www.guns.com/2016/04/26/kriss...ys-bankruptcy/ and http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...oing-bankrupt/ . I believe that all SDP pistols, as well as the 'new' 3000, will/are being manufactured in the US.

My 'expert' expressed concern about the heat treatment, in addition to the origin of the steel. Obviously, the stress relief from/during the repair is of particular importance on a/the slide. That being said, I share your sentiment of 'What do I have to lose?' The obvious answer is money... which is why I'm trying the 'Hail Mary' WTB route. I plan on waiting a while to see if I get any responses, both from my attempts to identify contacts out of the country, as well as the forums, before I pursue a repair.

[Walt Sherrill]

Originally Posted by jarhead7173

My 'expert' expressed concern about the heat treatment, in addition to the origin of the steel. Obviously, the stress relief from/during the repair is of particular importance on a/the slide. That being said, I share your sentiment of 'What do I have to lose?' The obvious answer is money... which is why I'm trying the 'Hail Mary' WTB route. I plan on waiting a while to see if I get any responses, both from my attempts to identify contacts out of the country, as well as the forums, before I pursue a repair.

Except for the cost of having additional work done, haven't you "lost" the money anyway?

Since this discussion started, I've done some reading on other gun forums where folks have specifically addressed welding slides. It would appear that some but not all slides are heat treated throughout; others are heat-treated in specific areas, such as the front and rear impact areas, and around the slide stop notch. I don't know if the slide could be re-heat-treated again after the work was done or whether welding would affect a "treated" area. The machinist could probably check various areas on the slide (for hardness) to see if the whole slide has been heat-treated or just specific areas.

The general consensus in these other discussions is that the risk (to the gun owner from injury if the slide disintegrates) is far greater than the likely reward. But most of those uttering the warnings are folks who haven't done it but who are afraid of that type of solution. They would seem to argue FOR parting the gun out, since a replacement will be almost impossible to find.

If there's a way of testing the integrity of the slide and assessing its on-going viability after it's welded (and, perhaps, re-heat treated, if appropraite), welding might be a valid solution.

[Jim Watson]

Where's the crack?

[Skans]

IMHO, the gun would be nearly worthless with a welded slide. The value in this gun is mostly as a collectable. The gun really isn't that much better than some of the higher end Tanfoglios.

[Walt Sherrill]

Originally Posted by Skans

IMHO, the gun would be nearly worthless with a welded slide. The value in this gun is mostly as a collectable. The gun really isn't that much better than some of the higher end Tanfoglios.

If it functions with a welded slide (and is safe) -- and those are two big "IFs" -- I'd rather have the Sphinx than some of the higher-end Tanfoglios. I've owned both. I wouldn't pay as much for a welded Sphinx, however.

Unwelded, it's a parts gun of unknown value. Welded, if safe, it's a functional weapon -- if not safe, it's still a parts gun. As we've both already said, parting it out makes sense.

(Both of the Sphinx 2000s I owned had black slides -- so if the slide in question was like mine it would be possible to make the weld almost invisible. Safety would be the biggest concern.)

[Jarhead7173]

The crack is in the rail at the rear end of the ejection port... clean through.
I've included some low quality pictures. FWIW, the marking on the interior of the slide is W064S40. I can guess what the'S40' means.. the rest is a mystery.

You guys echo what I've been mulling over since I got the bad news from Kriss, i.e. cut and run, or risk (literally) a repair.

[Walt Sherrill]

If you "risk" a repair, the only additional financial risk is the cost of the repair. The sellable parts are still there.

Determining whether the repair makes for an unsafe gun is a different issue -- but the gun can arguably be safety-tested prior to regular use. It might also be possible to have the slide magnaluxed if the initial work seems OK. (The slide can be sent off inexpensively for that sort of work -- it's not a firearm.)

Then, if everything turns out the slide can be recoated, it could look and act almost as good as new. And if you have records of the test results, etc., you may have a gun to keep or sell.

A lot of automotive shops are set up to do stainless welding, and can even have parts checked after the welding is done. If the machinist you're working with is really expensive and magnafluxing is costly done locally...maybe an automotive shop can help. (Remember: a slide is NOT a firearm and can be mailed off to a magnafluxing shop -- properly insured, of course! )

[Jim Watson]

Agree with Walt
Now: Paperweight with some spare parts.
Possible: Working gun.
Possible: Welded paperweight with some spare parts.

I used to have a welder and gunsmith/machinist who could have handled it, but the welder is deceased and the gunsmith is too arthritic to enjoy time spent over the mill. Too bad, they would have worked cheap if you could have caught their imagination on an experimental project.

A guy here wore out three Browning BDMs - he said no 2 and no 3 did not last nearly as long as no 1 so he gave up on them for competition. But one with welded slide and the best parts from the three is still his house gun.

[Jarhead7173]

I appreciate your comments, and the research you performed on my behalf. Thank you.
Decisions... decisions.