Shotguns for Home Defense - Page 2

fisherman66 · October 9, 2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Top load a couple of the less than lethal rounds, followed by a couple of heavy game loads. If it comes to it, put lead to them, but remember, even if it's legal to kill an intruder, you will face your own conscience for the rest of your life. Do what it takes, but take the kill shot seriously, and without the heavy layer of B.S. usually affiliated with these threads.

Wow. That's deep.

greensteelforge · October 9, 2009, 08:04 PM

Been in plenty of gunfights, and don't need the hard ass "blast the bad guys" stuff. I'd say the worst thing you can do when considering defense is to talk yourself into thinking you're something you're not. You won't get any awards or real satisfaction for killing someone. Furthermore, there seems to be allot of hard talk when it comes to this topic. Lots of fantasizing, and planning for the day someone gives the chance for glory. Shoot someone in the face with your 00 buckshot in your living room, and see if your wife ever looks at you the same. If you really think you want to kill someone, join the Army, and go 11-B, you'll get enough of it to make you happy to live in a place where you have little to fear, and quit thinking the gun will make you hard.

fisherman66 · October 9, 2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Furthermore, there seems to be allot of hard talk when it comes to this topic. Lots of fantasizing, and planning for the day someone gives the chance for glory.

I didn't see that at all.

I have cleared our house after a burglary. It's a pretty terrifying proposition. I don't go for less than lethal. It's not about being bad ass. It's about neutralizing a threat ASAP. So I strongly disagree.

I don't remember who posted the story about a father shooting his daughter in the neck while clearing a home, but it's certainly a sobering read. It's a good reminder about IDing a threat BEFORE putting your finger inside the guard.

Buzzcook · October 9, 2009, 10:17 PM

A couple of things.
Light, with some exceptions most homes have enough ambient light so that if your eyes are adjusted to the lower light levels, a flash light is not needed.
If you're home is very dark then leaving a nite light on in a hall or living room is all you really need to fix the situation.
In either case, the BG is back lighted and you are not.

Of course this also depends on staying put in a defensive position once you and yours are safe.

If you plan on clearing the house then it is possible that a handgun is a better option. But in that case you are increasing yor risk exponentially.

imho it's better to wait till the nice 911 operator tells you not to shoot officer friendly.

Scattergun Bob · October 10, 2009, 09:49 AM

I take a little offense at your statements of the “we haven’t been there” type. Do you actually know your audience that well?

I would like to address the point of less than lethal rounds mixed with lethal rounds loaded in the same scattergun. I can say it in no other way than, “this is a foolish and unsound thought!”

FIRST right off the top, GREENSTEELFORGE, if you top load less than lethal rounds into your magazine tube they will be the LAST rounds available to you. In shotgun magazine tube loading procedures, the rule of “first in last out” is in concrete! If you were meaning to say “ make your first two rounds less that lethal”, then plainly say that for us fantasizing novice folks who haven’t “been there and done that."

In general threat encounters are fluid affairs that change in nature by very small increments of time. They are also dictated by the aggressor not by the defender. To think that we will have the ability, understanding and speed to regulate when to use less than or lethal rounds in the moment of reaction to a threat is at best flawed and at worst foolhardy. I have been involved in several less than lethal situations, less than lethal was always backed up “as in a second operator” with available lethal force. This is the only sane way to approach the use of less than lethal force.

My next thought is; in the hands of a trained and competent operator, less than lethal is what it is, however at close range a hit to the wrong body part with those little beanbags of powered lead can and do kill! The last thing in the world one should suggest is the means for an accidental death. My thoughts on this are clearly stated in previous threads, we ONLY shoot our fighting scatterguns DEFENSIVELY, when our life is in danger, we never fire as a tool of persuasion.

IN A GUNFIGHT, WE MUST BE READY TO DELIVER THE FORCE NECESSARY; WE NEED TO ALSO PRAY WE NEVER HAVE TO.

Good Luck and Be Safe

lomaxanderson · October 10, 2009, 10:11 AM

Less than lethal= two Gsd outside the house or in the house or both

I have an 8 shot 12 gauge loaded and ready

My primary is a .45 acp and with me always

It's all about "Levels" but by the time I deploy the shotgun things have gotten ugly and cleaning up later will NOT be in my mind...YMMV

fisherman66 · October 10, 2009, 10:14 AM

Bob

Quote:

I take a little offense at your statements of the “we haven’t been there” type. Do you actually know your audience that well?

Agreed Bob. Since that poster claims he/she has

Quote:

Been in plenty of gunfights

. I think it's open to ask the nature of those gunfights. Not calling anyone out, but it might be helpful to understand the nature of those "gunfight".

12GaugeLosAngeles · October 10, 2009, 11:45 AM

Some body get this man a rock and a slingshot... my friend, what you are looking for is a gun called the "Magic" and it's not in production yet. Funny how people think a handgun will win the fight when the intruder has a sawed off pistol grip with exceptional shooting skills.... when people "quote" other people... that's when you need a dose of vitamin R... R for reality. :barf:

sooftwn12 · October 10, 2009, 12:22 PM

Anyone have any info about a _1200 (no.. not 1300....a 1200) stainless marine.. __I have assumed it was just an early 1300, but now I want to buy a rifled barrel for it.... Thanks for any help you might give,,, JS

Kmar40 · October 10, 2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Agreed Bob. Since that poster claims he/she has

You can tell a Cheetah by its spots... or in this case a mall ninja with his pistol gripped shotgun and his Counterstrike commando training.

You clowns who don't listen to the guys with three decades of instructor experience because you think something else works better from your counterstrike and paintball experience can listen to whomever you want.

hogdogs · October 10, 2009, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Less than lethal also mediates the real risk of accidentally shooting your kid sneaking back into the house in the middle of the night.

First off the word you sought but didn't find was "mitigate"
Secondly, It doesn't mitigate the

Quote:

real risk of accidentally shooting your kid sneaking back into the house in the middle of the night.

as you are still going to shoot the kid, just with a load that may only maim him rather than kill instantly. The risk of a LTL load killing is still far to high to fire on anyone you do not have a right to use lethal force. If you haven't identified the intruder as a "bogey" than you have no right firing or even leveling the gun on them. Never point a gun at anything you are not sure you wish to destroy...

Some folks opinions of what is right in HD/SD situations are best left unspoken.
Brent

comn-cents · October 10, 2009, 01:55 PM

It scares me a bit how many people don't think a light is a good way to go. If someone breaks into my home and I am there (this has happened to me) I want them to know that I know they are there. I make a ton of noise as I dial 911 and after I arm myself and i light the place up. I'm not into sneaking around in the dark. I want to make sure that what ever noise I hear is a threat (1st day in new house hung a plant from a hook in the ceiling, plant fell into the sink sounded like someone breaking in).
As for less-lethal rounds that is just ridicules, if someone is breaking into your house and you make noise, let them know you have called the police and have the place lit up so there is no dark place to hide and they stick around there is nothing about the situation that is "less-lethal". As for them taking you to court for assaulting them with less-lethal ammo, good luck. I don't feel the need to put myself in that situation. Who know less-lethal may just make them mad! As hogdogs said less-lethal is just that "less" not "not-lethal.

Squidward · October 10, 2009, 03:45 PM

Less lethal = More litigation.

comn-cents · October 10, 2009, 04:02 PM

Squidward "Less lethal = More litigation".
I think this is sad but true.

got_the_itch · October 10, 2009, 07:31 PM

Rem 870 Knox Tactical. Nuff said for HD!

If the question at hand is about your wife being able to handle the weapon, get in 20 gauge.

Or for something with a little less movement restricting. How about one of these Mossberg's in a 20 gauge.

http://www.machinegun.pl/sklep/image...erg500_8mm.jpg

A 20 gauge with the correct ammo, and barrel length will serve the purpose of your intentions.

armsmaster270 · October 10, 2009, 08:11 PM

My wife does fine with a 1911

greensteelforge · October 10, 2009, 08:49 PM

You are all right, it is best to start from lethal and skip the whole thing. The idea here is to do the most damage as quickly as possible and avoid legal fees. I will correct the bit on top-loading, though. Regardless of the type of magazine used, the last rounds loaded are the first fired (unless you are loading a .22 type tube magazine that loads from the fore-end), so when top-loading special purpose rounds, they always go in last. The "been there" comments are intended to inform the uninformed that there are consequences after the lead leaves the barrel, and it's not nearly as cool a feeling to hold that gun after you screw something up. I am no pacifist, but lethal force is a last resort, and wherever feasible, should be avoided. If that's silly to you, just go for body-count. There's nothing like that popping into your head while you watch your kid eat cereal. I live with the consequences of these things every day, and am not sorry for having done any of it. A human kill doesn't roll off most people's shoulders that easy. Defend yourself, your home, and your family in whatever way you deem necessary, but I'd like to hear from someone who's been hit with a LTL round out of a twelve and hopped right back up, ready to keep coming. The option is there, it's proven to be effective, and if you chose to use it or not is your decision (I don't recall telling anyone that this is the only way, just an alternative to escalating directly to lethal). But, hey, I'm one of those liberal "pu**y's" everyone's so scared of, and I don't care which side of a conflict you're on, in my book, if you kill someone, you damn well better be able to prove you had no other choice. Plenty of my own friends have expressed a desire for someone to be "stupid enough" to break into their home so they could make 'em sorry, and that's the kind of "hard talk" I'm referring to. I'll leave it at that, and you all to discuss the particulars of how best to shred the organs of your next intruder.

comn-cents · October 10, 2009, 09:07 PM

greensteelforge "I'll leave it at that, and you all to discuss the particulars of how best to shred the organs of your next intruder".

Thanks for leaving that up to us, since you are the only one that brings up shredding our intruders organs.

I think every one else here is talking about defending our families!

shortwave · October 10, 2009, 10:40 PM

greensteelforge, you may mean well but, IMO, some of your assumptions and statements are un-called for. For one, nobody has posted 'the desire for someone to be "stupid enough" to break into their home to make 'em sorry' attitude. You may need some new friends

. To me, what a person uses for HD purpose`s is as personal as what a person choose`s to CCW. If a BG breaks into my home he has breached a security system and more than likely killed two dogs. With that kind of determination, I am given no choice but to defend my family as best I can. That being said, my handgun is bedside and will be used to get me to hunting shotgun in closet.

dabigguns357 · October 10, 2009, 11:26 PM

It doesn't matter where i am,i carry a handgun,with the exception of my work.That said,i'm sitting here in my robe,t-shirt and sleep pants and i still have a gun on my hip.Yes i live in a safe little town but it's still a habit.Now when i go to sleep tonight i'll put my handgun on the nightstand and my shotgun will still be in the corner.If the bump in the night get to bad,i check my camera's to see where it's coming from.If there is a real threat i know where it is coming from and how to approach it before i ever leave my bed room.When i make my way to my childrens room i'll take my shotgun as my primary weapon and my handgun in a holster that was fitted on a shotgun shell belt which i made.The belt holds 25 rounds of 3 inch #00 buck plus the 12+1 rounds in my handgun.Total round count 5+1 in shotgun +25 on belt,12+1 in my sig = 44 rounds at my disposal.All it takes is clipping the belt around my waist and holstering my sig,and away i go.

This may seem excessive but i will do anything to get to my kids.Once they are safe,the cops can do the rest.
_________________________________________________________________
It's better to have a gun on your hip than one to your head.

CARGUY2244 · October 10, 2009, 11:45 PM

In order for a weapon to be effectively used for self defense, the most important factor is training, and by that, I don't mean a few trips to the range, but consistent training. Consider how ineffective a driver you'd be if you got a driver's license, and then drove 20 minutes every 6 months. Yet effectively using a weapon is a task that requires much more exacting and accurate results.
Regarding a light, who would fire a weapon at a target that was not illuminated? The light doesn't make you a target - simply utilize the intermitent strobe switch, illuminate the target, recognize the target, and make your decision.
A trained operator can use almost any weapon as a home defense gun. An untrained individual shouldn't have a weapon in the first place, as there are far too many bad results on the menu.
For me, there's a Mossberg 12 500, with a light, loaded with 00 standing against the night table, and a Glock 20, with a light, on the night table, an a DPMS AP4 .308 under the bed. The bulldogs will alert to any intruder, so the exposed weapons are not at risk of being siezed whike I sleep.

ADB · October 11, 2009, 01:00 AM

Quote:

The risk of a LTL load killing is still far to high to fire on anyone you do not have a right to use lethal force. If you haven't identified the intruder as a "bogey" than you have no right firing or even leveling the gun on them.

Two additional notes here--one, most "less than lethal" loads are specifically noted for the fact that they should not be used at close range and home defense is almost exclusively close range. In other words, they're still very possibly lethal in home defense use.

Second, as has been said before: legally, firing a gun is considered lethal force or attempted lethal force. It doesn't matter if it's loaded with rubber buckshot or not. There are situations where that might be an appropriate load, but using it in a situation where you are not 100% sure of your target is NOT one of them.

As for the question about a light--I do personally have a flashlight mounted to my shotgun. I don't have to use it, but if I want it I don't have to go groping around looking for a seperate one. I think it's only rational to want to illuminate something BEFORE you try to kill it.

Let me repeat this: if you don't know for absolutely sure what your target is, don't try to kill it. Seems obvious, but you'd be surprised how stupid people can be at times, particularly under stress.

Edward429451 · October 11, 2009, 08:38 AM

I think less than lethal rounds are a joke and dangerous to self and family. I mean geez, if the situation is bad enough to be justified in pointing a SG with LTL rounds in it at a (bogey), then it's a situation that is justified in pointing/shooting with buckshot or slugs. Don't compromise your families safety for marketing hype or cheeseeater fears.

skydiver3346 · October 11, 2009, 09:52 AM

You state you "have been in plenty of gunfights"? I hope they weren't in your home or property.... If so, there is something wrong here.

The only gunfights I have actually been involved in (back in 68-70) where when I was sporting a camo uniform (paid for by the US ARMY). With that said, I am always ready and willing to defend my life and family's life at a moment's notice. I am not concerned about the welfare or condition of an intruder in my home if I have to "eliminate the threat". Whether it is shooting the bad guy in the face with buckshot, (as you describe in your post) or anywhere else for that matter. I would be trying to defend myself and I sure as hell don't know what intentions the bad guy really has for me.

In other words, I am planning to just do my job to the best of my ability if I ever have to come face to face with and intruder in my home. I sure as hell am not worried about where I shoot someone if an intruder is attacking me or my family. Yes, it would stay with me the rest of my life but not nearly as much so, as the loss of a family member at the hands of the bad guy.
So be it.......

Glenn Dee · October 11, 2009, 10:08 AM

Hey Ladies n Gentlemen

Sorry but I couldnt resist commenting. I'm of the school of thought that your best defending yourself, family, home, campsite, or personal space with what ever firearm your familiar with and comfortable with. If you go to the range, shoot whatever for fun and end every session shooting your personal carry gun. That carry gun will most probably be the best choice for home defense. Unles you plan to take a seperate H/D firearm, shotty or what ever to the range on every trip.

Now I have a question.. what exactly is an operator? I remember we used to have telephone operators, a guy who was slick with the girls we'd called him a real operator... I did a couple a years in police work.... no one ever came up to me and asked "Operator, can you give me directions?" or "Operator can you tell me what time it is?"

October 10, 2009, 09:49 AM	#30
Scattergun Bob Senior Member Join Date: February 29, 2008 Location: Nine Mile Falls, Washington Posts: 1,186	Greensteelforge I take a little offense at your statements of the “we haven’t been there” type. Do you actually know your audience that well? I would like to address the point of less than lethal rounds mixed with lethal rounds loaded in the same scattergun. I can say it in no other way than, “this is a foolish and unsound thought!” FIRST right off the top, GREENSTEELFORGE, if you top load less than lethal rounds into your magazine tube they will be the LAST rounds available to you. In shotgun magazine tube loading procedures, the rule of “first in last out” is in concrete! If you were meaning to say “ make your first two rounds less that lethal”, then plainly say that for us fantasizing novice folks who haven’t “been there and done that." In general threat encounters are fluid affairs that change in nature by very small increments of time. They are also dictated by the aggressor not by the defender. To think that we will have the ability, understanding and speed to regulate when to use less than or lethal rounds in the moment of reaction to a threat is at best flawed and at worst foolhardy. I have been involved in several less than lethal situations, less than lethal was always backed up “as in a second operator” with available lethal force. This is the only sane way to approach the use of less than lethal force. My next thought is; in the hands of a trained and competent operator, less than lethal is what it is, however at close range a hit to the wrong body part with those little beanbags of powered lead can and do kill! The last thing in the world one should suggest is the means for an accidental death. My thoughts on this are clearly stated in previous threads, we ONLY shoot our fighting scatterguns DEFENSIVELY, when our life is in danger, we never fire as a tool of persuasion. IN A GUNFIGHT, WE MUST BE READY TO DELIVER THE FORCE NECESSARY; WE NEED TO ALSO PRAY WE NEVER HAVE TO. Good Luck and Be Safe __________________ First, with the most, WINS! Regards, Scattergun Bob

October 10, 2009, 10:11 AM	#31
lomaxanderson Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: La. Posts: 349	Less than lethal= two Gsd outside the house or in the house or both I have an 8 shot 12 gauge loaded and ready My primary is a .45 acp and with me always It's all about "Levels" but by the time I deploy the shotgun things have gotten ugly and cleaning up later will NOT be in my mind...YMMV __________________ All I want to do is live in peace...for that I'm willing to die STOLEN COLT NIGHT DEFENDER sn NDF0311 Mason Rhea Gsd

October 10, 2009, 12:22 PM	#34
sooftwn12 Junior Member Join Date: October 10, 2009 Posts: 2	Stainless Winchester,, Anyone have any info about a _1200 (no.. not 1300....a 1200) stainless marine.. __I have assumed it was just an early 1300, but now I want to buy a rifled barrel for it.... Thanks for any help you might give,,, JS

October 10, 2009, 01:55 PM	#37
comn-cents Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2008 Location: Pac.N.W. Posts: 1,804	It scares me a bit how many people don't think a light is a good way to go. If someone breaks into my home and I am there (this has happened to me) I want them to know that I know they are there. I make a ton of noise as I dial 911 and after I arm myself and i light the place up. I'm not into sneaking around in the dark. I want to make sure that what ever noise I hear is a threat (1st day in new house hung a plant from a hook in the ceiling, plant fell into the sink sounded like someone breaking in). As for less-lethal rounds that is just ridicules, if someone is breaking into your house and you make noise, let them know you have called the police and have the place lit up so there is no dark place to hide and they stick around there is nothing about the situation that is "less-lethal". As for them taking you to court for assaulting them with less-lethal ammo, good luck. I don't feel the need to put myself in that situation. Who know less-lethal may just make them mad! As hogdogs said less-lethal is just that "less" not "not-lethal. __________________ Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!

October 10, 2009, 03:45 PM	#38
Squidward Member Join Date: May 10, 2006 Location: Sunny California Posts: 66	The New math Less lethal = More litigation.

October 9, 2009, 08:04 PM	#27
greensteelforge Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Posts: 90	Been in plenty of gunfights, and don't need the hard ass "blast the bad guys" stuff. I'd say the worst thing you can do when considering defense is to talk yourself into thinking you're something you're not. You won't get any awards or real satisfaction for killing someone. Furthermore, there seems to be allot of hard talk when it comes to this topic. Lots of fantasizing, and planning for the day someone gives the chance for glory. Shoot someone in the face with your 00 buckshot in your living room, and see if your wife ever looks at you the same. If you really think you want to kill someone, join the Army, and go 11-B, you'll get enough of it to make you happy to live in a place where you have little to fear, and quit thinking the gun will make you hard.

October 9, 2009, 10:17 PM	#29
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	A couple of things. Light, with some exceptions most homes have enough ambient light so that if your eyes are adjusted to the lower light levels, a flash light is not needed. If you're home is very dark then leaving a nite light on in a hall or living room is all you really need to fix the situation. In either case, the BG is back lighted and you are not. Of course this also depends on staying put in a defensive position once you and yours are safe. If you plan on clearing the house then it is possible that a handgun is a better option. But in that case you are increasing yor risk exponentially. imho it's better to wait till the nice 911 operator tells you not to shoot officer friendly.

October 10, 2009, 11:45 AM	#33
12GaugeLosAngeles Junior member Join Date: October 5, 2009 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 81	Some body get this man a rock and a slingshot... my friend, what you are looking for is a gun called the "Magic" and it's not in production yet. Funny how people think a handgun will win the fight when the intruder has a sawed off pistol grip with exceptional shooting skills.... when people "quote" other people... that's when you need a dose of vitamin R... R for reality. :barf:

October 10, 2009, 04:02 PM	#39
comn-cents Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2008 Location: Pac.N.W. Posts: 1,804	Squidward "Less lethal = More litigation". I think this is sad but true. __________________ Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!

October 10, 2009, 07:31 PM	#40
got_the_itch Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2009 Location: Suburban Detroit Posts: 251	Rem 870 Knox Tactical. Nuff said for HD! If the question at hand is about your wife being able to handle the weapon, get in 20 gauge. Or for something with a little less movement restricting. How about one of these Mossberg's in a 20 gauge. http://www.machinegun.pl/sklep/image...erg500_8mm.jpg A 20 gauge with the correct ammo, and barrel length will serve the purpose of your intentions. __________________ My Sig .vs Your Glock Ok.... fair assessment. But mines pretty!

October 10, 2009, 08:11 PM	#41
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	My wife does fine with a 1911 __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.

October 10, 2009, 08:49 PM	#42
greensteelforge Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Posts: 90	You are all right, it is best to start from lethal and skip the whole thing. The idea here is to do the most damage as quickly as possible and avoid legal fees. I will correct the bit on top-loading, though. Regardless of the type of magazine used, the last rounds loaded are the first fired (unless you are loading a .22 type tube magazine that loads from the fore-end), so when top-loading special purpose rounds, they always go in last. The "been there" comments are intended to inform the uninformed that there are consequences after the lead leaves the barrel, and it's not nearly as cool a feeling to hold that gun after you screw something up. I am no pacifist, but lethal force is a last resort, and wherever feasible, should be avoided. If that's silly to you, just go for body-count. There's nothing like that popping into your head while you watch your kid eat cereal. I live with the consequences of these things every day, and am not sorry for having done any of it. A human kill doesn't roll off most people's shoulders that easy. Defend yourself, your home, and your family in whatever way you deem necessary, but I'd like to hear from someone who's been hit with a LTL round out of a twelve and hopped right back up, ready to keep coming. The option is there, it's proven to be effective, and if you chose to use it or not is your decision (I don't recall telling anyone that this is the only way, just an alternative to escalating directly to lethal). But, hey, I'm one of those liberal "pu**y's" everyone's so scared of, and I don't care which side of a conflict you're on, in my book, if you kill someone, you damn well better be able to prove you had no other choice. Plenty of my own friends have expressed a desire for someone to be "stupid enough" to break into their home so they could make 'em sorry, and that's the kind of "hard talk" I'm referring to. I'll leave it at that, and you all to discuss the particulars of how best to shred the organs of your next intruder.

October 10, 2009, 09:07 PM	#43
comn-cents Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2008 Location: Pac.N.W. Posts: 1,804	*greensteelforge* "I'll leave it at that, and you all to discuss the particulars of how best to shred the organs of your next intruder". Thanks for leaving that up to us, since you are the only one that brings up shredding our intruders organs. I think every one else here is talking about defending our families! __________________ Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!

October 10, 2009, 10:40 PM	#44
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	greensteelforge, you may mean well but, IMO, some of your assumptions and statements are un-called for. For one, nobody has posted 'the desire for someone to be "stupid enough" to break into their home to make 'em sorry' attitude. You may need some new friends. To me, what a person uses for HD purpose`s is as personal as what a person choose`s to CCW. If a BG breaks into my home he has breached a security system and more than likely killed two dogs. With that kind of determination, I am given no choice but to defend my family as best I can. That being said, my handgun is bedside and will be used to get me to hunting shotgun in closet.

October 10, 2009, 11:26 PM	#45
dabigguns357 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Location: Ona,West Virginia Posts: 1,215	It doesn't matter where i am,i carry a handgun,with the exception of my work.That said,i'm sitting here in my robe,t-shirt and sleep pants and i still have a gun on my hip.Yes i live in a safe little town but it's still a habit.Now when i go to sleep tonight i'll put my handgun on the nightstand and my shotgun will still be in the corner.If the bump in the night get to bad,i check my camera's to see where it's coming from.If there is a real threat i know where it is coming from and how to approach it before i ever leave my bed room.When i make my way to my childrens room i'll take my shotgun as my primary weapon and my handgun in a holster that was fitted on a shotgun shell belt which i made.The belt holds 25 rounds of 3 inch #00 buck plus the 12+1 rounds in my handgun.Total round count 5+1 in shotgun +25 on belt,12+1 in my sig = 44 rounds at my disposal.All it takes is clipping the belt around my waist and holstering my sig,and away i go. This may seem excessive but i will do anything to get to my kids.Once they are safe,the cops can do the rest. _________________________________________________________________ It's better to have a gun on your hip than one to your head.

October 10, 2009, 11:45 PM	#46
CARGUY2244 Junior member Join Date: December 4, 2008 Posts: 119	home defense In order for a weapon to be effectively used for self defense, the most important factor is training, and by that, I don't mean a few trips to the range, but consistent training. Consider how ineffective a driver you'd be if you got a driver's license, and then drove 20 minutes every 6 months. Yet effectively using a weapon is a task that requires much more exacting and accurate results. Regarding a light, who would fire a weapon at a target that was not illuminated? The light doesn't make you a target - simply utilize the intermitent strobe switch, illuminate the target, recognize the target, and make your decision. A trained operator can use almost any weapon as a home defense gun. An untrained individual shouldn't have a weapon in the first place, as there are far too many bad results on the menu. For me, there's a Mossberg 12 500, with a light, loaded with 00 standing against the night table, and a Glock 20, with a light, on the night table, an a DPMS AP4 .308 under the bed. The bulldogs will alert to any intruder, so the exposed weapons are not at risk of being siezed whike I sleep.

October 11, 2009, 08:38 AM	#48
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I think less than lethal rounds are a joke and dangerous to self and family. I mean geez, if the situation is bad enough to be justified in pointing a SG with LTL rounds in it at a (bogey), then it's a situation that is justified in pointing/shooting with buckshot or slugs. Don't compromise your families safety for marketing hype or cheeseeater fears.

October 11, 2009, 09:52 AM	#49
skydiver3346 Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,222	Greensteelforge: You state you "have been in plenty of gunfights"? I hope they weren't in your home or property.... If so, there is something wrong here. The only gunfights I have actually been involved in (back in 68-70) where when I was sporting a camo uniform (paid for by the US ARMY). With that said, I am always ready and willing to defend my life and family's life at a moment's notice. I am not concerned about the welfare or condition of an intruder in my home if I have to "eliminate the threat". Whether it is shooting the bad guy in the face with buckshot, (as you describe in your post) or anywhere else for that matter. I would be trying to defend myself and I sure as hell don't know what intentions the bad guy really has for me. In other words, I am planning to just do my job to the best of my ability if I ever have to come face to face with and intruder in my home. I sure as hell am not worried about where I shoot someone if an intruder is attacking me or my family. Yes, it would stay with me the rest of my life but not nearly as much so, as the loss of a family member at the hands of the bad guy. So be it.......

October 11, 2009, 10:08 AM	#50
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,560	Hey Ladies n Gentlemen Sorry but I couldnt resist commenting. I'm of the school of thought that your best defending yourself, family, home, campsite, or personal space with what ever firearm your familiar with and comfortable with. If you go to the range, shoot whatever for fun and end every session shooting your personal carry gun. That carry gun will most probably be the best choice for home defense. Unles you plan to take a seperate H/D firearm, shotty or what ever to the range on every trip. Now I have a question.. what exactly is an operator? I remember we used to have telephone operators, a guy who was slick with the girls we'd called him a real operator... I did a couple a years in police work.... no one ever came up to me and asked "Operator, can you give me directions?" or "Operator can you tell me what time it is?"