Sawed off shotgun

Overhill · December 25, 2011, 01:18 PM

A good friend passed away and left me an old H&R shotgun that has an 18 " barrel and 28" overall. Do i have have any paperwork to keep this legally?

SHNOMIDO · December 25, 2011, 01:20 PM

Youre going to want to confirm this with other sources, but I believe those are the exact requirements.

C0untZer0 · December 25, 2011, 01:54 PM

Or the shotgun section, but I'll post this.

Measure with a rod down the barrel from the bolt face when the bolt is closed. You want to be absolutely sure of the measurement - there are no gimmies, if you're short by 1/32" you're in serious trouble.

You are OK with OAL because the smallest allowable is 26" and you're 28 - although I'd double check that too if I were you.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5320-8.pdf

.

**44 AMP** · December 25, 2011, 02:55 PM

Those dimensions meet the Federal requirements.

Check YOUR STATE LAWS carefully! They can be different! One state I know has a 20" minimum for barrels, unless the original factory made barrel was shorter.

its foolish, but its the law. If it came from the factory with an 18", its fine, and legal. If someone (including a licensed gunsmith) cut down a longer barrel, 20" is the legal minimum.

Check the laws where you live, its important!

Overhill · December 26, 2011, 12:24 PM

Than, the chamber (forcing cone) is included in min. barrel measurment? That leaves me with a problem if it is.

rjrivero · December 26, 2011, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overhill

Than, the chamber (forcing cone) is included in min. barrel measurment? That leaves me with a problem if it is.

The measurement is from the face of the bolt to the end of the barrel. Google 5320.8 for the NFA Handbook published by the BATF.

C0untZer0 · December 26, 2011, 08:15 PM

Unloaded, empty shotgun...

Bolt CLOSED...

With the barrel pointed straight up in the air, take a rod and drop it down the barrel, allow the rod to rest on top of the closed bolt.

If 18" or more of the rod protrudes from the barrel, your shot gun barrel is legal (as far as the Federal regulations are concerned).

If less than 18" of the rod protrudes from the barrel, (even by 1/32" your shot gun may be an NFA weapon or AOW.

Overhill · January 12, 2012, 04:56 PM

When measured properly this barrel is approx. 1/16 short. If i was to tap the barrel and install an extended choke tube, would it be legal. i have looked at all the data i could find and this (tube) is not mentioned, I would even be willing to solder the tube in as i would have no desire to change it. Any thoughts?

MLeake · January 12, 2012, 05:09 PM

Is there an age at which this shotgun could have been grandfathered? Depending on how old the shotgun is? I could find no indication that the 1934 NFA allowed any kind of grandfathering, so my guess is No.

If not, page 5 in the atf publication linked by C0untZer0 defines the approved methods for adding length to meet minimum requirements.

Technosavant · January 12, 2012, 05:22 PM

Quote:

If i was to tap the barrel and install an extended choke tube, would it be legal. i have looked at all the data i could find and this (tube) is not mentioned, I would even be willing to solder the tube in as i would have no desire to change it. Any thoughts?

It would have to be permanently attached. Just screwing on wouldn't do it.

MLeake · January 12, 2012, 05:23 PM

One of the approved methods was silver soldering, at 1100F or hotter.

oneounceload · January 12, 2012, 05:30 PM

Since your name area says NJ, you might want to investigate those laws as well before going to any great lengths about anything.

natman · January 13, 2012, 04:33 AM

I know what you meant, but it's not what you said:

Quote:

Unloaded, empty shotgun...

Bolt CLOSED...

With the barrel pointed straight up in the air, take a rod and drop it down the barrel, allow the rod to rest on top of the closed bolt.

If 18" or more of the rod protrudes from the barrel, your shot gun barrel is legal (as far as the Federal regulations are concerned).

If less than 18" of the rod protrudes from the barrel, (even by 1/32" your shot gun may be an NFA weapon or AOW.

The critical measurement is how much of the rod is covered by the barrel. How much protrudes from the barrel is irrelevant.

hogdogs · January 13, 2012, 09:19 AM

COCK THE GUN!!! Firing pin could be protruding 1/16th beyond bolt face...

Brent

Overhill · January 13, 2012, 05:07 PM

COCK THE GUN!!! Firing pin could be protruding 1/16th beyond bolt face...
Haha. now if i can make sure that they center the measuring rod on the firing pin, i am legal.

war_elephant · January 14, 2012, 01:06 PM

I would still get rid of it, not worth the trouble it can cause in today's legal climate. At least buy a replacement barrel from Numerich Arms or H & R. For a single barrel shotgun, not worth the legal defense fees to prove it was ok. 1/16 of an inch is not worth 10 years. My .02. Being in NJ, No one will take the time to do what is right at the prosecutor's office. Remember Brian Atken, did everything right, legal, still ended up in prison. Still a convicted felon who cannot own or posess firearms untill the conviction is set aside. Is 1/16 either way worth it? Not in NJ.

December 25, 2011, 01:18 PM	#1
Overhill Member Join Date: March 1, 2007 Location: PA Posts: 96	Sawed off shotgun A good friend passed away and left me an old H&R shotgun that has an 18 " barrel and 28" overall. Do i have have any paperwork to keep this legally?

December 25, 2011, 01:54 PM	#3
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	This would be better in the NFA Guns & Gear section Or the shotgun section, but I'll post this. Measure with a rod down the barrel from the bolt face when the bolt is closed. You want to be absolutely sure of the measurement - there are no gimmies, if you're short by 1/32" you're in serious trouble. You are OK with OAL because the smallest allowable is 26" and you're 28 - although I'd double check that too if I were you. http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5320-8.pdf . Last edited by C0untZer0; December 25, 2011 at 02:12 PM.

December 25, 2011, 02:55 PM	#4
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,804	Those dimensions meet the Federal requirements. Check YOUR STATE LAWS carefully! They can be different! One state I know has a 20" minimum for barrels, unless the original factory made barrel was shorter. its foolish, but its the law. If it came from the factory with an 18", its fine, and legal. If someone (including a licensed gunsmith) cut down a longer barrel, 20" is the legal minimum. Check the laws where you live, its important! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 13, 2012, 05:07 PM	#15
Overhill Member Join Date: March 1, 2007 Location: PA Posts: 96	COCK THE GUN!!! Firing pin could be protruding 1/16th beyond bolt face... Haha. now if i can make sure that they center the measuring rod on the firing pin, i am legal. Last edited by Overhill; January 13, 2012 at 05:08 PM. Reason: addition

January 14, 2012, 01:06 PM	#16
war_elephant Member Join Date: June 29, 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 70	I would still get rid of it, not worth the trouble it can cause in today's legal climate. At least buy a replacement barrel from Numerich Arms or H & R. For a single barrel shotgun, not worth the legal defense fees to prove it was ok. 1/16 of an inch is not worth 10 years. My .02. Being in NJ, No one will take the time to do what is right at the prosecutor's office. Remember Brian Atken, did everything right, legal, still ended up in prison. Still a convicted felon who cannot own or posess firearms untill the conviction is set aside. Is 1/16 either way worth it? Not in NJ. __________________ Marine, Retired LEO, Firearms Instructor, Life Member NRA Tea Party Member, and general all around trouble maker. Last edited by war_elephant; January 14, 2012 at 01:09 PM. Reason: added wording

December 25, 2011, 01:20 PM	#2
SHNOMIDO Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 423	Youre going to want to confirm this with other sources, but I believe those are the exact requirements.

December 26, 2011, 12:24 PM	#5
Overhill Member Join Date: March 1, 2007 Location: PA Posts: 96	Than, the chamber (forcing cone) is included in min. barrel measurment? That leaves me with a problem if it is.

December 26, 2011, 08:15 PM	#7
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	Unloaded, empty shotgun... Bolt *CLOSED... With the barrel pointed straight up in the air, take a rod and drop it down the barrel, allow the rod to rest on top of the closed bolt. If 18" or more of the rod protrudes from the barrel, your shot gun barrel is legal (as far as the Federal* regulations are concerned). If less than 18" of the rod protrudes from the barrel, (even by 1/32" your shot gun may be an NFA weapon or AOW.

January 12, 2012, 04:56 PM	#8
Overhill Member Join Date: March 1, 2007 Location: PA Posts: 96	When measured properly this barrel is approx. 1/16 short. If i was to tap the barrel and install an extended choke tube, would it be legal. i have looked at all the data i could find and this (tube) is not mentioned, I would even be willing to solder the tube in as i would have no desire to change it. Any thoughts?

January 12, 2012, 05:09 PM	#9
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Is there an age at which this shotgun could have been grandfathered? Depending on how old the shotgun is? I could find no indication that the 1934 NFA allowed any kind of grandfathering, so my guess is No. If not, page 5 in the atf publication linked by C0untZer0 defines the approved methods for adding length to meet minimum requirements.

January 12, 2012, 05:23 PM	#11
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	One of the approved methods was silver soldering, at 1100F or hotter.

January 12, 2012, 05:30 PM	#12
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Since your name area says NJ, you might want to investigate those laws as well before going to any great lengths about anything.

January 13, 2012, 09:19 AM	#14
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	COCK THE GUN!!! Firing pin could be protruding 1/16th beyond bolt face... Brent

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