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Old April 9, 2011, 02:35 AM   #1
FrankenMauser
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Why does Remington mock me with their brass?

I'm getting tired of seeing new brass that looks like a kid made it out of Pla-Doh.

These crappy cellphone photos don't do justice to just how bad this brass was. Nearly 25% of the cases had been creased to the point of cracking. More than 40% of the cases needed me to manually iron-out the case mouths, just to get them safely over the expander in my sizing die (even with a tapered expander!). -Most of the case mouths that just look out-of-round actually have dents/creases that are folding into the case mouth. Running them over the expander would have ruined the brass. Not a single case actually had a round case mouth, or properly formed neck (though that's difficult to see in the photos).

There was a 0.015" thick lip/bur at the case mouth. It looked they Remington decided to forgo automated trimming on these cases; but gave them and a blunt screw driver to a 5 year-old kid, instead.

Aside from my standard case prep (including flash hole deburring and case mouth chamfer/deburring), I had to trim these cases to 2.465" .... just to be usable. Even trimming 0.020-0.025" off this brass, more than 10% of the cases still have small mouth cracks from the creases. ...Case life with be short - just as my patience is getting with Remington.

This is the fourth lot of R-P brass I have had to do substantial trimming to, just to make it usable, in the last 2 months. The only difference here.... I bought this .35 Whelen brass 3 years ago, but am only now getting to it (it's been stored, untouched, since purchased).

I get better case life from R-P brass, in general, and absolutely hate the prep required on Winchester brass (similar to the issues described above, but add horribly crooked case mouths). ...But these bad lots of brass are really getting to me. Nosler, Hornady, Lapua, and Norma will probably be seeing more of my money entering their pockets.


Are my standards and expectations too high?

Or am I justified in thinking this quality level is unacceptable?



R-P .35 Whelen; 2008 local purchase; 2 bags of 50 each (only one lot pictured)




I understand this entire post essentially boils down to a rant, but was hoping the modified standards and rules of the reloading forum would allow this to continue as a proper discussion.

On a side note... I received an order of Hornady .44 Rem Mag brass today. The flash holes so far off center, I would consider A-Merc and PMC an upgrade! What's the deal?
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File Type: jpg RP-35Whelen_2.jpg (120.3 KB, 2672 views)
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Old April 9, 2011, 02:59 AM   #2
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I don't think your standards are too high. For the amount of money we have to pay for brass nowadays, we shouldn't have to do the factory's job for them. If I ever got an order of NEW factory brass like that, I'd be calling up the company looking for some sort of compensation.
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Old April 9, 2011, 03:07 AM   #3
.300 Weatherby Mag
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Old April 9, 2011, 03:25 AM   #4
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What's to be done?

Don't hold back FrankenMauser. How do you really feel?

Seriously though. I have had the same problems with Remington. Having to toss 5 or 6 percent of what you just shelled out good money for is NOT my idea of commerce. Switch to Winchester and my luck has been a little better but nothing to brag about. I look at the prices for Lapua etc and just shudder even when they have 8mm stuff for my M48. Pistol brass is a little better and easier to fix but.....

So, to turn this from a rant into a discussion; What's to be done? I mean, before your post I would have told anybody asking me that the Hornady brass should be good but I noticed a LOT of weight variation in the last box of Hornady 55 gn BTHP for my AR. A buyer should not have to sort jacketed loads for weight! Part of the reason that I cast is that for the amount of money they want for the jacketed stuff you would think that the tolerances would be tighter. (Plus casting is fun ) Do we have to figure out how to make brass now? I guess the words inexpensive and brass no longer belong together and I should start a brass fund like an oversized Christmas fund?

Actually, I spend a lot of time out at the places that I shoot looking at the ground for what the kids were in too much of a hurry to pick up. Works OK for the pistolas but those darn kids just don't think bolt action or Mauser anymore!
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Old April 9, 2011, 04:04 AM   #5
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I wonder if it's a shipping issue, either to the store or from the store to you.

I've been at Sportsmans Warehouse when a delivery shows up and it's just all tossed in a big box and sent to the store. I could imagine if you have a few boxes of bullets with those when they were shipped to you then they acted like expensive packing peanuts.

I had decent luck with Winchester rifle brass, but I load the first shot as short range ammo for offhand or rapid fire so that everything gets ironed out before used for accuracy.

For bad dents I use needle nose pliers...if you put the whole nose in the case mouth and open the pliers, things get closer to round for the sizing die.

-J.
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Old April 9, 2011, 05:44 AM   #6
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Jeeze what kind of screwdriver was that kid using?? Hell I'd be mad too man!!!
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Old April 9, 2011, 07:16 AM   #7
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I'm much, much more alarmed at your addendum regarding the Hornady brass than I am about any part of your rant on the R-P brass. R-P brass has seriously dropped in quality in the past handful of years... like an epic landslide.

PMC is bad these days... a shame, because I have some 90's era PMC 10mm brass that is terrific. A-Merc isn't brass, IMO. It's an imposter. It may look like a cartridge case, but it's just scrap metal.
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Old April 9, 2011, 08:11 AM   #8
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I buy Laupa when possible gave up on other brands for consistency. Recently purchased some Hornady & winchester both were poor required a great deal of prep.
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Old April 9, 2011, 08:30 AM   #9
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I think these companies sell their 2nds to us as new unprimed brass, I've had the same thing called Remington sent them a couple cases and they sent me 37 new cases which were awesome kinda like match brass.
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Old April 9, 2011, 09:24 AM   #10
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Are you serious? That was new brass? "Wow!" is the only word to describe it.

You should send that photo (or take some better ones) to the dealer that sold it to you and ask if that is the quality of merchandise they really want to be selling. It doesn't matter how long you've had it, it's still bad business to sell that to anyone. I have to wonder if it really left the Remington plant in that condition, but there's probably no way for us to know. It would be up to the selling dealer to determine that.

I've found Remington brass to always be thinner than brass from almost any other manufacturer, but thin and completely messed up are two different things.
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Old April 9, 2011, 09:34 AM   #11
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Really,bullets that don't weigh consistantly, seriously fellas I never gave THAT any consideration. Hell Now youve done it!!!I'm running to my cupboard, and yank every bullet that hasn't been loaded yet and weigh them suckers!!!! And one thing that you don't want to do is ****-off a hooligan on saturday!!!! If one bullet weighs so much as one smidgin (I cant spell iota), Im going to email Nosler And Hornady, And Sierra, And (my wife said to quite it down)
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Old April 9, 2011, 09:37 AM   #12
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I have found that my 100 count bags of Remington brass usually turn into 99 or 98 packs because there are usually one or two that are only good for recycling. Whenever I buy new anymore, I just buy Starline. It's cheaper and has fewer rejects so far. Since I'm not terribly hard on it, I doubt lifespan will be an issue.
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Old April 9, 2011, 09:43 AM   #13
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Bullets and brass are always going to have weight variations. That's just the nature of the beast, especially when they come off different machines and from different lots of material.

The seriously deformed cases, though? I've never seen that in any of the new brass that I've bought, and I'd definitely be calling the manufacturer to task about it.
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Old April 9, 2011, 09:55 AM   #14
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I just got 500 new starline 44 mag brass ordered directly from starline. Actual count in the box was 502. Started resizeing and decided it was a waste of time..they were excellant. No trimming needed,no primer pocket problems. Primed all of them and they are ready to go. Two thumbs up for starline Q.C. This is the 2nd order i have recieved from them and i have not had one round yet that needed any prep work. 500 rounds shipped to my door for $84.55. Best deal and best quaility out there in my opinion.
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Old April 9, 2011, 09:57 AM   #15
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That's why I laugh when I hear people say new brass doesn't need to be sized. Those pictures are proof enough for anyone who doubts that they do.
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Old April 9, 2011, 09:59 AM   #16
Mal H
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hooligan1 - where did bullet weight variations come into play in this thread? You seem to be ranting/joking about something that isn't a problem, at least not in this thread.
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Old April 9, 2011, 10:28 AM   #17
Mike Irwin
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Now now, Mal, let's not get in the way of a good rant...
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Old April 9, 2011, 10:47 AM   #18
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I didn't intend to jack this thread, and I'm not joking!! I will start a new thread on this very subject. Sorry Frankenmauser I appologize! Mauser rat was talking about variations in hornady 55 grn bullets there MAL..
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Old April 9, 2011, 10:52 AM   #19
Brian Pfleuger
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This is why I use Norma brass. Considering how long it lasts, it's not really terribly expensive. Add to that the fact that I've never seen one single case (admittedly out of "only" several hundred) that wasn't ready to load right out of the box and a consistency of weights that is just .1 or 2, across the board.
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Old April 9, 2011, 11:27 AM   #20
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I picked up 2 bags pf Remington and one bag of winchester 38 special brass and 6 of them were unusable. The bag of winchester (102 in bag) all were perfect.

Winchester ticks me off and I don't plan on buying there components again. Sucks because locally thats all I can find, unless I want to by nosier or some VERY high price brace. Maybe I should go to wally world and get loaded 38 Special ammo for $20 a 100 and just reload the brass?

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Old April 9, 2011, 01:31 PM   #21
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If the subject brass is .38 Special then by all means, your best avenue for value is to find someone selling used brass.

.38 Special may very well be the most durable, long lasting, load-the-stuff-until-you-die brass there ever was. It doesn't get lost, because it doesn't get flung from an auto-chucker. And the loads are not hot & heavy, they run a mild pressure and don't need a gorilla crimp on them.

.38 Special brass doesn't wear out easily. Buy some used range brass or "once fired" or whatever they call it... it's your best deal by far.
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Old April 9, 2011, 02:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
I'm much, much more alarmed at your addendum regarding the Hornady brass
It was a bit of a shock to see the Hornady brass Frankenmauser mentioned. They came in the nice little cardboard box, and were nice and shiney with no dents and nice even case mouths.........and then you turn it over to see the primer pocket. "off center" is a bit of an understatement for some of those cases. One i picked up was so bad that the flash hole was actually touching the side of the primer pocket, and several others were far enough off center, they would have no trouble bending/breaking a decapping pin if you didnt catch it during your case prep. Apparently the extra money for the Hornady brass (versus RP or Win) didn't really do much with this time around. Maybe better luck next time?
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Old April 9, 2011, 03:26 PM   #23
FrankenMauser
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Wow. There are a lot more responses here, than I expected.

Just to clarify-
Yes, that was new brass. It came packaged in the green "Remington Component" brass bags.

Quote:
You should send that photo (or take some better ones) to the dealer that sold it to you and ask if that is the quality of merchandise they really want to be selling.
I bought it at the Midvale, UT Sportsman's Warehouse store. If I showed them a picture, they wouldn't give me the time of day. If I tried to return it, they'd tell me to get bent. The only hope in that store, is a friendly old guy that is a die-hard hand loader. But, he's just a salesman. He wouldn't have much sway with management. ...Their store policies are horrible, but we don't have many options for non-mainstream reloading supplies around here. (.35 Whelen is far from popular here)


Quote:
I'm much, much more alarmed at your addendum regarding the Hornady brass than I am about any part of your rant on the R-P brass.
That Hornady brass was a MASSIVE disappointment. I opened the box, told the dog, "ooh, pretty shinies", pulled the bag out, and put everything on a shelf in disgust. I'll try to get a picture for this thread later.

I'll be calling Midway and Hornady on Monday, to see which company feels like correcting the issue. Midway will just want to send me more off-center flash holes, so I'm hoping Hornady will step up.

Crankylove showed up when I was about half way through the prep on that .35 Whelen brass. The first thing I did, was have him look at that Hornady brass (without hinting at the issue). Within 5 seconds, I heard, "Holy <expletive>; look at those flash holes!"
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Old April 9, 2011, 03:39 PM   #24
Utahar15
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FrankenMauser

Gallenson's
166 E 200 S
Salt Lake City, UT 84111
(801) 328-2016



if you are talking about the Sportsman's Warehouse in Utah, then try the above place. Cheaper by far. The staff in the reloading section knows there stuff.

I can't say enough about this store. Primers are cheaper than Sportsman or Cabales and you are not hounded when you go in, but if you need help they are there to assist you.

Robb
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Old April 9, 2011, 03:48 PM   #25
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Quote:
The staff in the reloading section knows there stuff.
Gallenson's is one of the shops we frequent, in addition to Doug's, Sportsmans, Cabela's, and every once in a while if we are in the area, Van Wagnen's.

You must talk to different people at Gallenson's than I do........the staff in the reloading area when I go there (if there is anybody at all), are usually very grumpy, and always too busy to help or answer any questions (apparently stocking the clearance ammo table is more vital than assisting customers).

The prices there are usually pretty good, and they are the usually only place around I can get my .358 Win brass, but the parking sucks, and the store is usually quite crowded.
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