September 5, 2009, 12:08 AM | #1 |
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New owner, Choke question
What the heck does it do?
What's the difference between a 12 Gauge and a 32" barrel and a 12 gauge with a 29" barrel and a Full Choke. Now, what's a 3/4 choke or a modified choke Etc... What are the pattern or range changes, and what would happen if you took off the choke and shot it? Sorry for all the questions but this is the first I've owned a "cheater gun". All my life, whenever I bird or fowl hunted with my friends I used my bow... But now I can't shoot as well as I could so I got this cheap azz cheater gun... Help a feller out please? koolminx |
September 5, 2009, 12:44 AM | #2 | ||||
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Good questions!
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Cylinder = 0 constriction (ie, the muzzle diameter is the same as the barrel bore diameter). Skeet = .005" constriction Improved Cylinder = .010" constriction (aka, quarter choke) Modified = .020" constriction (aka, half choke) Improved Modified = .030" constriction (aka, 3/4 choke) Full = .040" constriction The more constriction you have the smaller the muzzle diameter and the tighter the shot cloud. Note that these are the typical choke constrictions. Some companies such as Briley make choke tubes in 10 or more different constrictions. Quote:
Shooting without a choke tube in place will give you a very wide (short range) pattern and fill the barrel threads with plastic which will make putting a choke tube back in very difficult. Never shoot a shotgun without a choke tube in place. Just a really bad idea.
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September 5, 2009, 01:28 AM | #3 | ||
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Obviously, as the choke diameter gets smaller, the bigger the difference, and the tighter the pattern. If that difference is 40 pts. of constriction or .040, the choke is full, and so on. Two barrels with the exact same constriction at the muzzle can have different patterns, simply because of variations in the inside bore diameter. Also, know the true test is patterning the shotgun at 40 yds. in a 30 in. circle. The % of shot in that 30" circle will tell you what your pattern is with a given load. TIP: Shoot first, then draw the circle Expect smaller shot to have bigger patterns than larger. Expect chokes set up for lead shot to pattern much tighter with steel shot. Know that the figures listed are for 12ga. For determining 20 ga. chokes, we're working with fewer points of constriction having the same effect on patterns. The gunstore I frequent has a gage that can be inserted into the bore to determine it's inside diameter. Then by measuring the choke at the muzzle, and subtracting that from the inside bore diameter, I have a good idea what to expect from a barrel. Still--patterning on paper as described is how to really know your shotgun. Gauge is determined by the number of lead balls the diameter of the bore that equal about a lb. Except for .410, which is a reference to bore diameter. It's true that the barrel length has nothing to do with tightness of pattern, except that longer barrels tend to be choked modified and full. Longer barrels for long range waterfowl hunting, for example. Open pattern chokes tend to be shorter. Quail and grouse hunting at closer range, for example, need to be faster handling than a barrel used for pass shooting geese. With modern screw- in, interchangeable choke systems, barrels tend to be shorter than fixed choke barrels. Last edited by Nnobby45; September 5, 2009 at 01:41 AM. |
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September 5, 2009, 01:38 AM | #4 | |
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September 5, 2009, 09:34 AM | #5 |
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Let's not forget the typical constrictions mentioned are for 12-ga guns. Where 0.040" is a superfull choke in a 12-ga gun, it takes only 0.020" to do the same job in a .410-bore barrel. Here are somelinks to Briley's useful choke data:
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September 5, 2009, 07:42 PM | #6 | ||
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However, if you're interested in knowing the true choke of your shotgun, it's done by figuring the number of pellets in the load, and counting the number that are within the circle at 40 yds, then figuring pattern %. That's how it's done, not my invention. When you stop to think about it, 40yds. is a pretty good distance to see which chokes start thinning out, and which are still going strong. Once you know what choke you have, THEN pattern at 25 yds. to see what it looks like there. Sorta like sighting in high at 100 yds with a rifle to be on at a certain distance. For example, I've discovered that my 12 Ga. IC actually shoots within IC specs, and that I still have consistent tight enough patterns out to 35 to 37 yds. using # 6 shot. Then I can see what it looks like at 15, 20, 25 yds, etc. If you've got time and plenty of rolls of heavy butcher paper (that's best) you can learn a lot about all your bbls. with different loads. Now days, you can take pics and store them on pc. for future reference. Quote:
The field is full of shotgun shooters who severely handicap themselves by shooting too tight a choke. Giving up some range for more open pattern can work wonders. Went to IC with #6's in my 12 ga. for chukar and never looked back. When I use 20ga., I need modified to make up for the less shot. Last edited by Nnobby45; September 5, 2009 at 07:59 PM. |
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September 6, 2009, 01:06 AM | #7 |
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You guy's are awsome! Thank you all very much.
I shoot a $70 dollar Pardner, that kicks the poopy stuff out of me because there's no butt rubber, and it only weighs about 4 lbs... OUCH No choke on it. I polished my barrel up to look like chrome because I hated the 1989 blued look on a blond stock... Cheap, hurts like oh my golly, but only for fun shootin, I still take my birds with a Bow and Arrow. Last edited by koolminx; September 6, 2009 at 10:06 AM. |
September 6, 2009, 09:10 AM | #8 | |
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I've never heard of a Pardner shotgun with no choke on the barrel. Most likely your shotgun either has a full or modified choked barrel. -- |
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September 6, 2009, 10:05 AM | #9 |
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My Pardner has a thin straight non threaded barrel... It cost $70 bucks I think...
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September 6, 2009, 11:04 AM | #10 |
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If you don't know the specs of your gun, you might want to call Harrington and Richardson at their toll free number and see if someone in their customer service department can identify for you which specific Pardner model you have: (866) 776-9292
If it has a full choke then it is sort of useless for any bird hunting except for turkey hunting. If it has a modified choke, then you should be able to get by using it. Full choke is pretty much un-useable now for waterfowl hunting since the ban on lead shot. And for upland game hunting, it is too tight a choke for most shooting situations. What type of bird hunting do you do?? -- |
September 12, 2009, 05:04 PM | #11 |
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pardner
Hi, I'm new to the firing line forum not a technical hunter but i would like to chip in, single barrelled shot guns where oringinaly made for game keepers in the u.k. for pest control, they were light weight, so they kicked like a bastard, sometimes refered to as a knock about gun they usually came with full choke in order to give maximun range, these guns loaded with a number 5 shot cartridge were capable of stopping a fox and bringing down a high rook or crow. As a young man these were usually the first gun as they were inexpensive and if you dropped to a 1 oz load you will reduce the kick.
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September 12, 2009, 05:17 PM | #12 |
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To your other question about 3/4 choke - Many Europeans mention chokes as Cylinder, Quarter (IC), Half (M), Three Quarter (IM), and Full. If you buy Beretta or Geurini or similar that come with 5 different chokes, odds are that is what you'll get. Now Perazzi is different in that they measure chokes in .004 increments, so a Perazzi choke labeled "4", actually measures .016 (.004 x 4), so if you see a pigeon gun marked 7 and 10, it will be a tight IM and an extra full
Here's yet another chart I like to add to the ones Zippy gave you: http://www.hallowellco.com/choke_chart.htm |
September 12, 2009, 06:20 PM | #13 |
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Quote: "No choke on it. "
Some chokes are screwed onto the outside/end of shotgun barrel and some chokes are built into the inside. Your gun probably has the latter. You can't tell by looking that the internal choke is there. Very few shotguns are sold without some kind of choke, either built-in or external, except for short range defense guns intended for slugs and/or buckshot.
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September 12, 2009, 07:35 PM | #14 | |
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September 15, 2009, 02:02 PM | #15 | |
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September 15, 2009, 02:23 PM | #16 |
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Lance, I am one of those few...
I have owned one gun with tube threads... it came with a mod and it left with a mod and I never bought a tube for it... For less than specialty clay sports I see no reason for tubes. For wing shooting a fixed choke in mod or imp. mod has dropped me plenty of supper. For a deer gun I like a short barrel and learned to do fine with a cyl. and slugs or 00 buck. Never even fired a gun with full choke as far as I can remember... Brent |
September 15, 2009, 02:47 PM | #17 | |
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September 15, 2009, 05:02 PM | #18 |
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A gun without screw in chokes - makes no sense to me.
The idea of a shotgun - is to deliver a 30" pattern at the "kill range" or break point of the target. To intentionally shoot a choke where you don't get a 30" pattern - defeats the purpose of a shotgun / for no reason, when you can easily change the choke, if the gun has the option. Do guys obsess too much over chokes - sure / but it makes no sense to shoot a Modified choke at 15 yards / or at 70 yards ..... in the field, if you have a IC / Mod barrel ........and a bird comes up at 15 yards, you can wait for it to move out, then take your shot / while I suppose you could do that in sporting clays, there is no reason to ... just change the choke. Many of us are old enough to remember when shotguns had only fixed chokes / and we had a "duck gun", a "pheasant gun" and a "grouse gun" ...but why go back there ! If I wanted a custom made SXS / I would insist they put screw in chokes in it - just like Kolar, Krieghoff, etc do... ( its an improvement over where we were in the 50's ). But then again I like 1911 handguns made in 9mm, and a GPS installed in my car too ...... |
September 15, 2009, 05:47 PM | #19 |
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Jim - on initial analysis, 99% are gonna agree with you and not with me - that's OK, I'm used to being a contrarian.....the folks I mentioned that have chokes but do not change them do one thing - they change shells....they carry 8-1/2 and 7-1/2.....and use them accordingly - 8-1/2 for close targets and 7-1/2 for rabbits and far targets....again, these folks are top shooters, including one in the NSCA HOF.....can't argue too much with that.....most sporting targets are best shot with a IC or M choke, so why NOT have fixed chokes - less worry about blow-by, no need to figure out chokes in .005 increments....instead you focus on the target.....if you're on the bird, you're on the bird......
JMO, and I know it isn't the most popular.......... |
September 15, 2009, 06:19 PM | #20 |
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It's ok OneOunce, I have the same discussion a lot with a friend that insists on shooting Mod/Mod chokes on a Skeet field. He thinks it makes him better ... / and there are a lot of guys that feel the same way / and you're right, they vary their shells to help compensate.
I think it defeats the concept of the pattern / and when my buddy and I were shooting sporting clays a lot / he rarely beat me in our class but to each his own .....as long as shooters make the choice based on the understanding of the issues / they're making informed decisions .... and that's all either one of us is trying to do. |
September 16, 2009, 09:41 AM | #21 |
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Lots pf us that started shotgunning before the common availability of choke tubes(Note the first US patent issued for same was in the 1860s) learned to change loads for different shot opps.
Out of tightly choked repeaters like we all had then, cheap 8s worked for quail, hard 7 1/2s for longer shots there and dove,even the first shot on ringnecks over dogs. Squirrels, pheasants and rabbits got 4s,5s, or 6s, ducks got 4s and geese 2s. Most of us bought ammo one box at a time then, so we always had plenty of variety. Those who reloaded oft tailored ammo for a mission and barrel. Choke tubes have changed that, though I note that I can still do a decent job with an 870 and a fixed choke. |
September 16, 2009, 09:59 AM | #22 | |
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I've watched guys bird hunting with bow and arrow and they seem to have more fun than is legal in most states. It's the only time I see people giggling and high-fiving over an "almost" hit.
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September 16, 2009, 10:49 PM | #23 | |
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Just switching between lead and steel when going from upland to waterfowl hunting requires a much different choke in order to get a similar pattern. I can remember as a young teenager reading Jack O'Connor's famous Outdoor Life book on shooting, and the section he had in it all about how chokes work. Heck, my first shotgun was a Browning Auto-5, and I had to swap out the entire barrel in order to change the choke on it!! -- |
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September 16, 2009, 11:04 PM | #24 | |
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You are over simplifying things here greatly. This all depends on the individual course that you are shooting at. I mainly shoot sporting clays with LM, which is a choke I've never even seen offered in a fixed choke shotgun. We typically do have a couple of real close targets, and a couple of distant ones too. Although our local operator is constantly changing the course. In any event, I only change chokes for those stations that are at the extremes. If a person is so weak-minded that changing a choke tube between stations is going to ruin their concentration while on the course, well, then they have much bigger problems affecting their shooting that they clearly need to address. Changing shot size has no significant effect on your pattern. 7 1/2 is more effective at longer ranges because the pellets retain more energy at those ranges than 8's do. 8's are not as reliable in breaking birds at long range. That is the reason for varying your shot size. -- |
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September 16, 2009, 11:04 PM | #25 |
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I will never be loading non-lead ammo I am strictly a meat hunter to aquire meat for less cash than it can be bought for.
Brent |
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