Dry fire damage?

9245 · February 8, 2021, 01:36 PM

I have finally received my 1989 Armi San Marcos 1858 Remington, but on close inspection it appears to have damage from dry firing, specifically, it has the imprint of the nipples stamped about a millimeter or 2 deep into the hammer, the nipples look OK, but is it fireable like this? Can the hammer be fixed?

The hammer in the safety notch:

The hammer on an empty nipple:

Centurion · February 8, 2021, 01:52 PM

Shoot it with plain primers with no charge of powder nor bullet. If it ignite, then you can use it normally.

9245 · February 8, 2021, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centurion

Shoot it with plain primers with no charge of powder nor bullet. If it ignite, then you can use it normally.

The only issue is percussion caps, at the moment I don’t have any and getting them is like primers, I have the tool coming to make my own, but I don’t expect it to arrive for another months or so given how long my prime all took to ship. In the meantime though if I have to fix anything now would be a good time.

Erno86 · February 8, 2021, 02:56 PM

If the hammer has the same kind of lousy steel as my Ruger Old Army...I would suggest not dry firing the pistol at all (unless you use percussion caps) --- If you do...wear eye protection --- Since I've broken two of my Old Army hammers while dry firing them, (with the thumb cocking piece of the hammer cracks and flies off directly at the shooter with speed).

That's why I think Ruger gave up on manufacturing the Ruger Old Army, even though the instruction book said it was okay to dry fire the pistol.

Centurion · February 8, 2021, 03:56 PM

You are right. When I said primers I was talking about caps.

9245 · February 8, 2021, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centurion

You are right. When I said primers I was talking about caps.

I know, I meant that percussion caps are currently as impossible to get as primers. To get them I will have to make my own from scratch.

I also have to recycle primers.

Primers and percussion caps no longer exist in the market, unless you want to pay a scalper 5 times more than they are worth anyway, and even then you may not find them.

The ammunition shortage was one of my reasons for getting this, I can cast my own bullets and if I have to I can make my own black powder and percussion caps from scratch. I cannot make shell casings or fresh primers though.

Hellgate · February 8, 2021, 09:39 PM

I have never dry fired my two Uberti Remingtons. They both have indentations of the nipples on the hammer faces. I suspect the dents occurred when I had dud caps and repeatedly fired it in a match. As long as the gun keeps popping caps don't worry about the looks of the hammer face. If there are signs of the hammer dragging on the hammer cutout in the frame then I'd pound the sides of the hammer face flat so they don't contact the frame.

5whiskey · February 9, 2021, 02:37 AM

OP you aren’t in NC by any chance are you? I have a local source with 10s of thousands of Caps. I would offer some but can’t ship hazmat.

Pahoo · February 9, 2021, 11:53 AM

Quote:

I have finally received my 1989 Armi San Marcos 1858 Remington, but on close inspection it appears to have damage from dry firing, specifically, it has the imprint of the nipples stamped about a millimeter or 2 deep into the hammer, the nipples look OK, but is it fireable like this? Can the hammer be fixed?

I'm currently involved with the similar problem on a Colt Navy. You state that the nipples look OK. To me, that means that they have probably been replaced or harder than the hammer face. As long as your hammer face can reach the cops, you should be OK, The hammer face on my Colt is not as beat-up as yours but the nipple faces are distorted. Yes, the hammer face can me restored as needed. First determine if you have a "dysfunctional" problem. I have made some measurements and My problem will be resolved by replacing the nipples. ...

Good Luck and;
Be Safe !!!

Hellgate · February 9, 2021, 12:47 PM

If the imprinting on the hammer face causes the caps to stick to the hammer you need to dress the hammer face to smooth it out otherwise you will have frequent cap jams.

**44 AMP** · February 9, 2021, 03:48 PM

I had an Armi San Marcos .45 colt and it was complete crap. I don't know if their BP guns are any better, but Armi San Marcos has a very poor rep with me.

If your gun reliably sets off the caps, then I guess you're good to go, if not, is there any warranty? (its new, right?) and is it worth dealing with the maker or just doing what can be done to fix it on your own dime?

in my viewer, your pics are just enough out of focus to lose the detail.

Your damage could have been done by someone "playing" with the gun before it went into the box to go to you. That kind of thing does, sadly, happen...

Good Luck

44 Dave · February 9, 2021, 07:55 PM

Armi San Marco is very close to original guns they copy, BUT some of the finer fitting leaves a lot to be desired. The hammer nose may be to long. I find that the bolt is also poorly fit to the cylinder (if at all) on them

Deltadart · February 9, 2021, 10:11 PM

I just went thru a similar issue with one of my Remington NMAs. I purchased the pistol some years ago, never shot it much as I had my other favorites. But things change. The gun was completely defarbed, and someone paid a lot of money to have it done as it is very well fininshed, very high polished blue. Also honed the chambers, and did an action job as well. The problem I found on close inspection was the nipple / hammer contact. The nipples appeared to be a little long as the hammer had some slight damage, the ring cut into the face to the point a very minor swelling on the sides. The hammer would not easily fit into the safety notches. I used 600/800 grit paper to smooth it up just enough that it will engage those notches smoothly. The nipples had mushroomed a little which made seating a no 11 on them difficult. A misfire was not uncommon. I contacted Track of the Wolf and they helped me get the proper nipples for the gun. The ones in the gun were .300 cone and I ended up with .275 cone, 6 -.75mm. I have not shot the pistol with them but did put caps on the nipples and they fired. I think the revolver is an older ASM, and the only reason I think that is the s/n numbers look identical to other ASM revolvers i have seen, this one is spot on at 25 yards with a .454 ball and 30 gr. 3F Swiss.

9245 · February 10, 2021, 09:28 AM

I measured my nipples to see if I could get replacements from Track of the Wolf (to use standard number 11 caps) and got weird measurements.

Some seemed slightly different size than others and none of them matched anything exactly on Track of the Wolf’s site. The closest I could find were the ones for original antiques but mine were a bit shorter on the actual cone. All were .291 at the base and were (roughly) .472 in overall length, the cone was short, I forget the actual measurement but I want to say it was only .17 something. I called Track of the Wolf and they recommended the .485 overall length replacements, but would those work? They recommended going to the hardware store and seeing what thread pitch I had, I went to Lowes but the closest I could find was M6-1 It seemed to thread in to that but I see nothing like that on Track of the Wolf’s site. Would that work with the 6-.75?

Pahoo · February 10, 2021, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Your damage could have been done by someone "playing" with the gun before it went into the box to go to you. That kind of thing does, sadly, happen...

From the factory, no but after that who knows. I have seen this damage before and it takes some time, to get this bad. The damage to the hammer face is not normal wear, it was caused by dry firing. If you look into the contact area of the hammer face, you should see a round-peened pattern. One fix, I made was to have the hammer face "notch" TIG welded and filed back to flush.

Quote:

If the imprinting on the hammer face causes the caps to stick to the hammer you need to dress the hammer face to smooth it out otherwise you will have frequent cap jams.

TRUE;
Primer strikes are fairly consistent and predictable but caps are a different situation. Even on a good day, caps can jam up the works. ......

Be Safe !!!

9245 · February 10, 2021, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pahoo

From the factory, no but after that who knows. I have seen this damage before and it takes some time, to get this bad. The damage to the hammer face is not normal wear, it was caused by dry firing. If you look into the contact area of the hammer face, you should see a round-peened pattern. One fix, I made was to have the hammer face "notch" TIG welded and filed back to flush.

TRUE;
Primer strikes are fairly consistent and predictable but caps are a different situation. Even on a good day, caps can jam up the works. ......

Be Safe !!!

I don’t know any welders, would JB weld work?

9245 · February 10, 2021, 01:34 PM

Better quality pictures:

Pahoo · February 10, 2021, 03:22 PM

9245
I've seen greater damage than this and the C&B still kept working, just fine. So, I have to ask; are you currently having and operational problem?

Be Safe !!!

9245 · February 10, 2021, 03:45 PM

Unknown as I am currently unable to test. I have no percussion caps and they no longer exist in the market except from scalpers and I refuse to pay a scalper. I did order a tool to form number 11 caps and fill them with home made primer compound however it has not arrived yet and the seller does not communicate, past experience though tells me that it probably will not arrive for at least another month or two. I believe he is backordered however he does not communicate this or make the time table known.

I bought it from: https://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.m...sion-cap-maker

Pahoo · February 10, 2021, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Unknown

So until you determine if you have or do not have a problem, there is no fixing. I'll bet you don't have a problem. Now then, until you get your primers try this check. ......

Get a piece of heavy aluminum foil and fold a four layer strip about 3/16" or 1/4" wide. Cock the hammer and insert one end of the strip on top of the nipple face. Pull the trigger and read the print, on the foil. Take a picture of tell us what you got.. ....

When in question, I often deactivate a cap and check the print, in this manner. I do this on C&B's and Long guns. when you read the print, you will note a pattern. .....

Good Luck and;
Be Safe !!!

44 Dave · February 10, 2021, 08:17 PM

I do something like Pahoo, but use card stock.
When looking for nipples for a 1969 built Uberti I found that ones listed for Euroaarms were the correct length (shorter)
M6 x .75 x .500 Long
Fits Euroarms Revolver
(6 Per Package)

Deltadart · February 10, 2021, 08:18 PM

Check Cabelas from time to time you can place an order there, may take two weeks to get the product but that worked for me to get 3 boxes.

9245 · February 10, 2021, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deltadart

Check Cabelas from time to time you can place an order there, may take two weeks to get the product but that worked for me to get 3 boxes.

I just checked Cabelas, unless I’m blind I cannot see percussion caps anywhere on their website.

Pahoo · February 11, 2021, 12:01 PM

9245
Thought I'd save you a bit of time, so went looking and do not like what I see. Man, I'm behind the times..

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...ps-and-primers

Good Luck and;
Be Safe !!!

Deltadart · February 11, 2021, 08:35 PM

I just checked Cabelas as well, there are no percussion caps on their site. Wow things change quickly.

February 8, 2021, 01:36 PM	#1
9245 Member Join Date: January 30, 2021 Posts: 21	Dry fire damage? I have finally received my 1989 Armi San Marcos 1858 Remington, but on close inspection it appears to have damage from dry firing, specifically, it has the imprint of the nipples stamped about a millimeter or 2 deep into the hammer, the nipples look OK, but is it fireable like this? Can the hammer be fixed? The hammer in the safety notch: The hammer on an empty nipple:

February 8, 2021, 02:56 PM	#4
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	If the hammer has the same kind of lousy steel as my Ruger Old Army...I would suggest not dry firing the pistol at all (unless you use percussion caps) --- If you do...wear eye protection --- Since I've broken two of my Old Army hammers while dry firing them, (with the thumb cocking piece of the hammer cracks and flies off directly at the shooter with speed). That's why I think Ruger gave up on manufacturing the Ruger Old Army, even though the instruction book said it was okay to dry fire the pistol. __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell Last edited by Erno86; February 8, 2021 at 03:01 PM.

February 8, 2021, 09:39 PM	#7
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	I have never dry fired my two Uberti Remingtons. They both have indentations of the nipples on the hammer faces. I suspect the dents occurred when I had dud caps and repeatedly fired it in a match. As long as the gun keeps popping caps don't worry about the looks of the hammer face. If there are signs of the hammer dragging on the hammer cutout in the frame then I'd pound the sides of the hammer face flat so they don't contact the frame. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

February 9, 2021, 02:37 AM	#8
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,652	OP you aren’t in NC by any chance are you? I have a local source with 10s of thousands of Caps. I would offer some but can’t ship hazmat. __________________ Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018 https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946

February 9, 2021, 12:47 PM	#10
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	If the imprinting on the hammer face causes the caps to stick to the hammer you need to dress the hammer face to smooth it out otherwise you will have frequent cap jams. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

February 8, 2021, 01:52 PM	#2
Centurion Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2016 Posts: 270	Shoot it with plain primers with no charge of powder nor bullet. If it ignite, then you can use it normally.

February 8, 2021, 03:56 PM	#5
Centurion Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2016 Posts: 270	You are right. When I said primers I was talking about caps.

February 9, 2021, 03:48 PM	#11
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,815	I had an Armi San Marcos .45 colt and it was complete crap. I don't know if their BP guns are any better, but Armi San Marcos has a very poor rep with me. If your gun reliably sets off the caps, then I guess you're good to go, if not, is there any warranty? (its new, right?) and is it worth dealing with the maker or just doing what can be done to fix it on your own dime? in my viewer, your pics are just enough out of focus to lose the detail. Your damage could have been done by someone "playing" with the gun before it went into the box to go to you. That kind of thing does, sadly, happen... Good Luck __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 9, 2021, 07:55 PM	#12
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	Armi San Marco is very close to original guns they copy, BUT some of the finer fitting leaves a lot to be desired. The hammer nose may be to long. I find that the bolt is also poorly fit to the cylinder (if at all) on them

February 9, 2021, 10:11 PM	#13
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	I just went thru a similar issue with one of my Remington NMAs. I purchased the pistol some years ago, never shot it much as I had my other favorites. But things change. The gun was completely defarbed, and someone paid a lot of money to have it done as it is very well fininshed, very high polished blue. Also honed the chambers, and did an action job as well. The problem I found on close inspection was the nipple / hammer contact. The nipples appeared to be a little long as the hammer had some slight damage, the ring cut into the face to the point a very minor swelling on the sides. The hammer would not easily fit into the safety notches. I used 600/800 grit paper to smooth it up just enough that it will engage those notches smoothly. The nipples had mushroomed a little which made seating a no 11 on them difficult. A misfire was not uncommon. I contacted Track of the Wolf and they helped me get the proper nipples for the gun. The ones in the gun were .300 cone and I ended up with .275 cone, 6 -.75mm. I have not shot the pistol with them but did put caps on the nipples and they fired. I think the revolver is an older ASM, and the only reason I think that is the s/n numbers look identical to other ASM revolvers i have seen, this one is spot on at 25 yards with a .454 ball and 30 gr. 3F Swiss.

February 10, 2021, 09:28 AM	#14
9245 Member Join Date: January 30, 2021 Posts: 21	I measured my nipples to see if I could get replacements from Track of the Wolf (to use standard number 11 caps) and got weird measurements. Some seemed slightly different size than others and none of them matched anything exactly on Track of the Wolf’s site. The closest I could find were the ones for original antiques but mine were a bit shorter on the actual cone. All were .291 at the base and were (roughly) .472 in overall length, the cone was short, I forget the actual measurement but I want to say it was only .17 something. I called Track of the Wolf and they recommended the .485 overall length replacements, but would those work? They recommended going to the hardware store and seeing what thread pitch I had, I went to Lowes but the closest I could find was M6-1 It seemed to thread in to that but I see nothing like that on Track of the Wolf’s site. Would that work with the 6-.75?

February 10, 2021, 01:34 PM	#17
9245 Member Join Date: January 30, 2021 Posts: 21	Better quality pictures: Last edited by 9245; February 10, 2021 at 01:53 PM.

February 10, 2021, 03:22 PM	#18
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Second thoughts 9245 I've seen greater damage than this and the C&B still kept working, just fine. So, I have to ask; are you currently having and operational problem? Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

February 10, 2021, 03:45 PM	#19
9245 Member Join Date: January 30, 2021 Posts: 21	Unknown as I am currently unable to test. I have no percussion caps and they no longer exist in the market except from scalpers and I refuse to pay a scalper. I did order a tool to form number 11 caps and fill them with home made primer compound however it has not arrived yet and the seller does not communicate, past experience though tells me that it probably will not arrive for at least another month or two. I believe he is backordered however he does not communicate this or make the time table known. I bought it from: https://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.m...sion-cap-maker

February 10, 2021, 08:17 PM	#21
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	I do something like Pahoo, but use card stock. When looking for nipples for a 1969 built Uberti I found that ones listed for Euroaarms were the correct length (shorter) M6 x .75 x .500 Long Fits Euroarms Revolver (6 Per Package)

February 10, 2021, 08:18 PM	#22
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	Check Cabelas from time to time you can place an order there, may take two weeks to get the product but that worked for me to get 3 boxes.

February 11, 2021, 12:01 PM	#24
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Not looking good !!! 9245 Thought I'd save you a bit of time, so went looking and do not like what I see. Man, I'm behind the times.. https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...ps-and-primers Good Luck and; Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

February 11, 2021, 08:35 PM	#25
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	I just checked Cabelas as well, there are no percussion caps on their site. Wow things change quickly.