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Old February 12, 2018, 01:18 PM   #1
Grant 14
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Newbe Here, 30-30 Powder?

My first post. I helped my Father reload in the 60s and have just started up again with my adult son. In trying to get a somewhat universal powder for the loads that I need, I bought 4064 for my 30-06, 7 Mag and 6.5 jap. I also bought 3031 for my 25-35, but lost that in a fire. I am now looking at 30-30 with cast 170 gr bullet loads and I cant find anything for 4064. I found one load for jacketed bullets but I dont think I can safely use it with cast. Does anyone know of a safe (moderate load) for cast bullets using 4064? If needed , I will buy more 3031 but I hate to pay as much for shipping as the cost of 1 lb of powder. Any help will be appreciated. Grant.
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Old February 12, 2018, 01:34 PM   #2
Yosemite Steve
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4064 works, but I am saving for some Leverevolution. Too bad you have to mail order your powder. My new Lyman says 27.0 to 30.5 and lists 4064 as potentially the most accurate for the 170 gra8n bullet. 2.540 OAL. ALWAYS work up from the bottom.
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Old February 12, 2018, 02:16 PM   #3
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No 170's listed, but there is some very old(as in no way the powder lots would be close) cast bullet data for IMR4064. There are several 4064 powders none of which use the same data too. Mind you, IMR4064 is not really a cast bullet powder.
https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazi...l63partial.pdf
"...for shipping..." Best to buy components locally. Especially powder and primers, but because shipping costs are based partly on the weight, bullets too..
27.0 to 30.5 is not cast bullet data. Do not use jacketed data for cast bullets. It causes leading.
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Old February 12, 2018, 02:35 PM   #4
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Oh boy, going to be a might tough to find one powder for all the application'a you want. H4831 works for 6.5 Jap., 7mm RM and 30-06, just not for 30-30. Win 748 works well in the 30-30. Curious, you're not able to find/buy powders locally?
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Old February 12, 2018, 02:43 PM   #5
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IMR3031 would be a better choice for cast in the .30-30... it's what I use. Generally speaking, you don't want to drive a cast bullet past 1800fps or so unless 1) it has a gas check, and/or 2) you've slugged your bore and the bullets you are using are sized for that bore. Just using 'jacketed' data does not automatically lead your barrel, I use a starting 'jacketed' load for loading cast in my .348WCF, including IMR4064, but I have bullets properly sized for the bore. It's true, overdriving cast bullets can exhibit barrel leading... but that is a typically a product of too much velocity, coupled with a poor bullet choice.

That being said, I show the same 27.0grn IMR4064 starting load for a 170grn jacketed bullet (Speer manual,) I don't see any reason not to give it a try, or reduce that to 25grn and give it a go. I wouldn't load more than 5 rounds or so, as a tester. Your rifle will tell you in pretty short order if it likes it or not.

My experiences with a shorter barrel and IMR4064 (in my 20" .348) have not been favorable, the velocity was down compared to IMR3031, all else being equal, but the only way to tell is to try it in your rifle... a little longer barrel with the smaller bullet diameter might work very well.
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Old February 12, 2018, 02:44 PM   #6
lordmorgul
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Lee reloading manual has a lot of cast bullet data, will check for you later tonight.
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Old February 12, 2018, 02:48 PM   #7
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Lee reloading manual has a lot of cast bullet data, will check for you later tonight.
The only genuine cast data in my Lee manual is with Accurate powders. There is data with IMR4064... but with jacketed bullets.
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Old February 12, 2018, 07:39 PM   #8
Grant 14
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Wow, I didnt expect so many reply,s so quickly. I think I am going to like this forum. I havent actually looked for powder locally. I live in a rural town in California which only has 1 gun shop, and he is only a dealer, not a gunsmith. I will try out my new 170 gr rn mold tomorrow and see if l like the results. It is for gas checks. There is no sense slugging the bore since we have 3, 30-30s in the family, so I will try some reduced loads of IMR 4065 and see how I like them. I will probably buy some 3031 since I also have a 25-35 to load for also. I loaded some 6.5 Jap last week with 34 gr of 4065 and 139 gr jacketed bullets and they seem to shoot well so I will stick to that. I will have other questions about the 6.5 but I will start another thread about that. I dug out my Dads 60 year old press and scales and some rifles that havent been shot in years and I am having fun. Thanks _____Grant.
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Old February 13, 2018, 01:09 AM   #9
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My first reloading many years ago was for the 30-30. I got some 3031 powder and it worked well. Still use that powder for the 30-30. Have fun!
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Old February 13, 2018, 02:47 AM   #10
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4064 is just about ideal for the 30-'06, and will likely work pretty well in the others, but the 7mm Magnum really needs something slower burning, like H-4831 or IMR-7828. Perhaps the most versatile rifle powder is IMR 4895, which is just about perfect for 30-30. I think that you really need two powders: A Magnum rifle powder that will also work well for the heaviest bullets in the 30-'06; and a medium burn-rate powder for everything else, including the 30-'06 with all but the heaviest bullets.
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Old February 15, 2018, 08:06 PM   #11
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Not many people shoot cast lead in 30-30. To much is given up. Not like a 45-70 where velocities (and pressures), even on the +P end barely overlap the low end of starting loads for a 30-30 . A bitsy little 308 caliber 170 grain bullet, to work effectively, velocities are generally around 2000 fps and upward to 2400 fps. Too fast for cast lead even gas checked.

So, even if they are intended only as a plinker loads, a plinker cast load in my 45-70 will still hit like a freight train and be a useful hunting load if only at closer distance. One can load and shoot a 45-70 from 900 fps to 1800ish using cast lead 405gr bullets. A 1200 to 1600 fps 170 grain cast load from a 30-30, what can you do with that? But plink. Yeah, I guess you could hunt with a 170gr cast bullet at 1600 fps, but, as I said, you are giving up a lot.

Plus, then, you wind up needing to shoot cast and jacketed in the 30-30 whereas a 45-70 shooter can shoot only cast and still plink, hunt or take on a t-rex if need be. Cannot be said for the 30-30. The 30-30 needs jacketed bullets to be a good hunting round (which it is no doubt).



My current loads for 30-30, 160gr FTX with 34.0gr of Lever revolution powder, CCI LR primer, Winchester nickel brass and the other 170gr Sierra JFP with 34.5gr of Lever Revolution powder, CCI LR primer and Winchester brass. My 45-70 gets cast lead, my 30-30 gets jacketed, both exclusively.

3C

Last edited by 3Crows; February 15, 2018 at 08:27 PM.
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Old February 15, 2018, 08:09 PM   #12
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3Crows what do you get for the 170gr load fps wise?
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Old February 15, 2018, 08:23 PM   #13
3Crows
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zipspyder View Post
3Crows what do you get for the 170gr load fps wise?
Howdy, I am getting around 2200 fps from my 336SS REP and about 2175 from my 336 Texan JM. Both are 20 inch Micro Groove barrels. I am still working these loads using the data from the Hogden site.

Note I made a correction, I am 34.5gr of LR powder on the Sierra 170gr load.

3C
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Old February 15, 2018, 09:49 PM   #14
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Bought myself The Henry 30-30 in brass and did some 170 gr loads using my trusty W748 ball powder. Love this powder simply for the smooth precise metering. W748 is a great do all powder from AR15 gas gun to 30 cal bolt action.
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Old February 16, 2018, 10:11 AM   #15
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Not many people shoot cast lead in 30-30. To much is given up.
Not really. You keep comparing it to the .45-70... which it is not. It is a short-range, medium-game cartridge. You can drive the 170grn gas checked cast bullet to 2000fps with decent downrange performance, but you aren't going to drop an Elk at 300yds. You can get it faster than that, but it takes particular tuning and setup to get it there; that isn't to say you will not get better performance with jacketed in the .30-30, particularly over 2000fps, but cast is still a viable option. You are not 'giving up' anything, simply use it within the envelope of performance that exists for that particular round.
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Old February 16, 2018, 10:13 AM   #16
zipspyder
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Quote:
Howdy, I am getting around 2200 fps from my 336SS REP and about 2175 from my 336 Texan JM. Both are 20 inch Micro Groove barrels. I am still working these loads using the data from the Hogden site.

Note I made a correction, I am 34.5gr of LR powder on the Sierra 170gr load.

3C
That sounds like you're right in the optimum ball park. You can probably get a little more fps out of them but then you may run into pressure issues trying to hit 2400 fps.
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Old February 16, 2018, 10:25 AM   #17
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2400fps/mv from a 30-30 using a 170gr bullet out of a 20" barrel? Whao, I'm not to sure about that. Not even using LR powder.
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Old February 16, 2018, 10:29 AM   #18
zipspyder
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2400fps/mv from a 30-30 using a 170gr bullet out of a 20" barrel? Whao, I'm not to sure about that. Not even using LR powder.
That was just me spouting dribble. They didn't say they were trying to reach that fps level. At 2200 fps that thing carries a wallop anyway.
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Old February 16, 2018, 11:02 AM   #19
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LOL! Ok, that did have me wondering. I load the Hornady 170gr FN over a hefty charge of Win 748 and get about 2150 over the screens. Accurate and hard hitting. Mod 94.
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Old February 16, 2018, 05:56 PM   #20
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As far as ball-type powders go, I have had excellent results with W-748, BL-C(2), and I am currently trying out some of the new LVR powder. All three seem to be a lot alike. With the extruded IMR-4895, which I really like, I trickle-weigh every charge. But not so with the three afore-mentioned ball powders, as they meter rather consistently from the powder measure.
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Old February 16, 2018, 06:22 PM   #21
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The Lever Revolution powder is a ball type and it flows nicely. Here is the load data that drew me to the Lever powder and of course Hogden load data:

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammo/..._30-30_030811/

If you read carefully you will see the posted loads in the article were from a 20 inch barrel 336 Marlin. From the article posted above:



I see no point in pushing the Sierra 170gr load I made at 34.5gr any higher. I may push the Hornady 160gr FTX a little more. The * given for the 160 FTX, if you read the article, indicate a max. load and the ** indicates the most accurate and useful load. I tend to agree for these from my loadings thus far. Again, the table above is from a 20 inch barrel 336 per the article.

3C
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Old February 16, 2018, 06:59 PM   #22
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3 Crows, that is an interesting article. I'm good with my load above,but, dang, I may have to give that Leverevolution a whirl. You know, self education and all.
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Old February 16, 2018, 08:35 PM   #23
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I have a bag full of 150gr gas check lead bullets for the 30-30. So how does load data vary with gas checked lead versus non gas check, if any? Use the same powder loads as no gas check or what? I understand they are somewhat reduced loads compared to jacketed. BTW everyone appreciates the handy 20 inch carbine barrel, and that is all I ever see available, but then loading manuals use a longer barrel most of the time to achieve better MV. But that is annoying as pretty much you need a scarce or vintage gun to get the longer barrel.
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Old February 16, 2018, 11:27 PM   #24
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Gas check usage is up to you. All based on velocity, powder burn rate and how it effects erosion of the bullet in the bore. If ya feel ya need it, use it.
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Old February 17, 2018, 01:12 AM   #25
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If you compare Hodgdon LVR and BL-C(2), looking at the pressure data and velocity per grains powder, they look to be nearly the same powder. Probably good substitutes for each other when you can only find one of them.
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