Am I limpwristing or what the heck?

Josh17 · July 17, 2018, 11:54 PM

EDIT oops I posted a thread about limp-wristing the Glock’s a few months ago. Crap. A mod can close this thread if you like, as I don’t want to keep repeating the same thing over. My bad!! I haven’t logged in here for a while and forgot I posted this already months ago =|

This is super annoying and I cannot figure it out... I have wasted so much money renting Glock’s and ammo.

This is happening on 3 different Glock’s:
Glock 43 (rental, rented it so many times I could have purchased one by now ugh)
Glock 26 - my own.
Glock 19 - my own. Glock 19 has the least problems, but I also fire it the least.

Here’s the confusing part: I believe maybe I’m limp wristing it, as I’m a small guy with small wrists - but it’s not reliable enough. Example: I fire it one handed often to test its reliability and to test limp wristing. Sometimes I can be holding it firmly one handed and got a failure to return to battery maybe 1-3 times per mag. THEN SUDDENLY I can hold it one handed and fire 2 mags in a row with ZERO issues. Same grip. Same ammo. I am confused.
To make things more baffling:
I have tried to hold it SUPER WEAK one handed - I held the Glock 43 one handed and it was super loose in my hand, on purpose, to try to induce a limp wristing failure. I fired maybe 5 rounds this way, and only got 1 malfunction and failure to return to battery...! Eh?
Then I go back to FIRM one handed grip, and suddenly am having random failure to return to battery again. THEN suddenly I go through 2-4 Mags with no issues. So confused.

NOTE: I had the Glock 43, Glock 26, AND Glock 19 at the range. I had the issue with all 3, and constantly rotated them.

Here’s a pic of the type of malfunction. Is failure to return to battery the correct word?

https://ibb.co/d8Apry

https://ibb.co/mhx8jJ

When I went to the range the other day I got 10-15 or so of those malfunctions. Easy to fix, just rack the slide and ready to go... But why does it keep happening?

Josh17 · July 18, 2018, 12:17 AM

Also: I rented the Glock 42 as I love how soft shooting and how little recoil it has.

The Glock 42 was the MOST RELIABLE! Oddly...

I had maybe 1-2 failures when firing one handed, trying to see if a limp wristing malfunction would occur. The G42 firing standard ball ammo did the best.

While the 9mm G43, G26, and G19 did worse.

I’ve heard of trying to change the recoil spring (do you go heavier or lighter?) and heavier ammo grains but...

I thought limp wristing caused more FTE’s and such? The other day EVERY malfunction on 3 different 9mm Glock’s where ALL “failure to return to battery” like in the pics above. Can limp wristing truly cause that? Or am I *maybe* riding the slide stop on all 3 Glock’s without knowing it? It doesn’t seem to match typical limp-wristing but I could be wrong.

I like revolvers but I don’t want to be limited to them. I’m not super recoil sensitive either, I find firing the G43 not to be snappy as many claim. Same for the Ruger LCR snubbie in 357, it’s not snappy to me. Normally people who limp wrist have issues with recoil on smaller guns from what I have read? I can fire the G43 all day without issues from the “recoil” - if only I could get it to shoot reliable!

**44 AMP** · July 18, 2018, 12:46 AM

The picture I get from your link shows the slide fully open, or very close to it.

I would not call that a failure to return to battery. Yes, it is a failure to return to battery, but when we use that term, it's generally understood it to be the short form of "failure to fully return to battery", which means the slide goes forward, feeds the next round into the chamber, BUT stops before fully locking shut.

This is not what is shown in the picture.

Is there any remote chance that you are bumping the slide stop without realizing it??

Has anyone else shot those guns, and if so, did they have the same issues??

thinking about it, when you have one of these failures, exactly WHAT is holding the slide open???

Is it locked open (slide stop engaged??) is the slide just forward of the stop and touching the rear of the next round in the magazine? Did the round in the magazine move forward at all???

Since rounds do feed and fire and feed again, its not the recoil spring. Something is stopping the slide from going forward at random intervals. MAYBE its you, somehow, but maybe its the gun. Having several other people fire it can point to one or the other as the likely culprit.

It LOOKS like the slide stop is engaging when it shouldn't. First you have to figure out if this is actually what is happening, then, if it is, why.

This happening to multiple guns when you fire them seems to indicate its something you are doing, But not clearly enough to be able to say what, from here...

Do you have access to any other guns than those particular Glocks?? Random stoppages are bad, I wouldn't carry or trust a gun that did that. And I think if it was something I did, and couldn't figure out what, I'd get a different gun, and keep getting different guns until I found one that didn't do that in my hands.

Revolvers come to mind...

Seriously, the problems you are getting, and the frequency of them, would make me put those guns in the "range toy" group until I figured out, and fixed the problem. I'd definitely be getting something else (and something that didn't have stoppages) as a "duty" sidearm.

Ricklin · July 18, 2018, 07:02 AM

As 44 amp allluded take a look at your grip, I have small hands as well.

It's pretty easy to have your grip accidentally engage the slide stop. All it takes is a little upward pressure on the slide stop from a "too high" grip.

hogwiley · July 18, 2018, 03:04 PM

Looks like the slide is completely locked back, as happens after firing the last round in a magazine. If you push the slide lock lever down with your thumb, the slide should slam shut chambering a round.

I assume this happens because you are pushing the slide lock up when firing somehow. If that's not the case then something else is wrong with the slide lock, which seems unlikely since this isn't a common problem and wouldn't likely happen on 3 different glocks.

dgludwig · July 18, 2018, 03:34 PM

Follow 44 AMP's suggestion and have other proficient pistoleers shoot the gun(s). If the malfunctions also happen for them, the gun(s) need to be looked at. If no malfunctions happen for them, you know who to look at.

Josh17 · July 19, 2018, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hogwiley

Looks like the slide is completely locked back, as happens after firing the last round in a magazine. If you push the slide lock lever down with your thumb, the slide should slam shut chambering a round.

I assume this happens because you are pushing the slide lock up when firing somehow. If that's not the case then something else is wrong with the slide lock, which seems unlikely since this isn't a common problem and wouldn't likely happen on 3 different glocks.

A few times when it “malfunctioned” instead of racking the slide I simply pushed the slide stop to force it shut, then continued firing. So I guess it wouldn’t do that unless the slide is locked back perfectly via hitting the slide stop by accident?
As yeah, whenever the malfunction happened it looked and acted the same as if it was locking back just like how it goes on an empty mag.

I’m going to try again and this time pay attention to my grip and if I’m riding the slide stop. Also will see if maybe someone at the range would want to try firing them (if the issue) still exists.

Also I hope not 44amp, I love Glock’s lol. I have had terrible luck recently but maybe it’s all user error. I hope so!

Will find out soon

HighValleyRanch · July 19, 2018, 09:28 AM

Try shooting with your support thumb OVER the strong side thumb to prevent riding the slide lock. See of that makes any difference.
I don't think limp wristing will cause the slide to lock entirely back. Something would have to push the slide lock up to cause that.

**Aguila Blanca** · July 19, 2018, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh17

A few times when it “malfunctioned” instead of racking the slide I simply pushed the slide stop to force it shut, then continued firing.

Pushed the slide stop ... in, or down?

hogwiley · July 19, 2018, 01:48 PM

Well if you pushed the slide stop down and that "solved" the problem and it slammed shut chambering a round, then yeah, the slide stop lever locking the slide back is definitively whats happening. If you attempt to nudge the slide forward without pushing the slide stop lever down then it should not move because the slide lock is engaged.

The good news is that this isn't a problem with the gun, and if you are conscious of not hitting it, then it should be easy to correct, or at least diagnose. The reason it probably happens when intentionally limp wristing is probably the way your holding the gun, since in most people a normal grip will rarely if ever activate the slide stop(I've literally never had this happen in thousands of rounds fired through various guns).

I did have a Sig p228 that on a few occasions failed to lock back on the last round, either because my thumb was unintentionally pushing the slide lock lever down as I fired or there was something wrong with the magazine.

Josh17 · July 21, 2018, 09:11 PM

I pushed it down.

On the Glock 43, normally I would tap the mag to make sure it’s in place securely, and then attempt to simply rack the slide as I knew the malfunction was the slide not closing again... BUT.. Multiple times I had issues when I tried to rack the slide on the Glock 43 it didn’t want to move. My only guesses are:
1.) Slide stop was engaged/pressed by me, causing the issue. But: would that prevent me from being able to manually rack the slide until I mess with the slide stop??
2.) I had a couple bandaids on my hand, which got in the way of racking the slide often. So maybe it was just my bandaid in the way.

I can shoot the Glock 42 in 380 easily one handed, its recoil is so light and easy to hold and control. So.. I wondering if the G42 maybe would work better if I still have limp wristing issues with the G43 or G26? Maybe that extra control I have over the G42 due to lack of recoil would help prevent/reduce limp wristing??

Josh17 · July 31, 2018, 08:24 PM

I am going to test this in a couple of days, finally (I injured my hand so if I tried to shoot I would injure it more - and my grip would be 2x weaker)

BUT... It kinda makes a point. What if you do get injured, and have compromised grip? I mean right now yes, I can pick up the Glock 26 or 19 and hold it firmly one handed - but it hurts a little holding it, being I badly sprained my wrist (worse than just a sprain) so yeah if needed I could pick it up, grip it firmly and shoot - but if it has a malfunction that’s just not acceptable.

I don’t understand why Glock’s are more prone to this? I watched a video where apparent S&W shields even being polymer just aren’t prone to limp wristing. Odd.

I’ll give it one full “final” test in a few tests with multiple guns.

BUT I don’t understand this: normally limp wristing causes constant malfunctions, like every shot, or every other shot, or every few shots - yet when I fire it one handed I can go 20 rounds in a row with zero issues then suddenly a random malfunction. Doesn’t seem to make any logical sense, besides maybe that every once in a while my wrist relax too much or my grip changes, causing that random malfunction.
Any gun that is that sensitive cannot be trusted. I read that many times in Self-defense situations you could be using one hand to push them away, and the other hand to grab your pistol and fire from a odd angle, you won’t be able to fully extend and make a normal grip unless you want the bad guy to grab it.
So if that’s true, limp wristing is unacceptable, as drawing like that with one hand and potentially using the other hand to push them back, that would make any-one prone to limp wrist on accident and be screwed, because Glock’s will only save your life if you have your arms fully extended, and elbows and wrists locked. �� Better ask the bad guy for a time-out while you into your proper stance and grip.

^^
LoL I love Glock’s, so before I bash them I’m doing a full cleaning and lube of the 26 and 19, and then doing a test of a good 200-300 rounds. I think I may be surprised to find out there are no issues.... As the gun-store owner (and instructor) asked me to show him my grip on both the G43, G26, and G19, and I guess my grip is good and not the issue. According to him.
Or i’m Going to be really pissed and still get limp wrist failures with my proper grip, and sell all my Glock’s lol. I guess time will tell.

**JohnKSa** · July 31, 2018, 11:17 PM

Quote:

...normally limp wristing causes constant malfunctions...

That hasn't been my experience. In some cases, they start showing up when the person is tired or gets careless about their grip. They can also be more likely to occur when the magazine is completely full or nearly empty. Or they can manifest as a malfunction once in awhile.

That said, if the slide is locked back with the slide stop lever in the up position, that is not a limp wrist malfunction, that is a case of the shooter accidentally engaging the slide stop while shooting.

I agree with your assessment that a gun that has occasional grip-induced malfunctions being a bad choice for self-defense. There are lots of guns out there. It doesn't make sense to keep working with one that is a bad fit when there are so many other choices.

tallball · August 1, 2018, 07:14 AM

1) This is something the OP can fix: Keep thumb away from slide stop.

2) Glocks are quite possibly not the right shape for the OP's hand.

3) Revolvers are good. I own many fine semi-automatic pistols, and still prefer to carry a revolver most of the time.

MoArk Willy · August 3, 2018, 05:20 PM

I had a similar problem with my PT111 G2. It always fired and cycled but wouldn't return to full battery, like your second picture. No apparent obstruction and I could easily push it into battery with a gentle nudge with my thumb.
I disassembled the gun, cleans and lubed and re-assembled it.
No difference.
I wound up replacing the recoil spring assemble (captured on that model) and that took care of it instantly.

745SW · August 3, 2018, 06:46 PM

My 2cents. The G42 is most reliable because the form factor of the pistol fits the 380ACP ME (muzzle energy), about half the ME of 9mm, better

The G19 has the largest form factor of the bunch in 9mm, making it the second most reliable.

G43 and G26 are subcompact 9mm pistols having a comparatively small form factor making for the least reliable.

My guess is the ammo used are range reloads using a medium speed powder. This powder is good for mass quantity because it meters well compared to fast powder that frequently needs to be monitored. if the medium powder is used in low charges it can give inconsistent performance.

Josh17 · August 3, 2018, 08:38 PM

Interesting so a Glock 42 is less likely to have limp wristing? I love the G42, but cannot recall how many jams I had - but it was less then the G16 or 19

I tested them today and decided I have 1 final test to do, BUT if Glock fails this final test I had two guns I loved and worked excellent!

I need to clean and lube the Glock 26 and 19, as I haven’t done a true cleaning on them in years... Granted I probably only put 500 rounds in those years without cleaning/lube.
If after cleaning and lube I get any more issues I then will done with Glock.

Here is what I DON’T get: I fired weak handed and limp wristed on purpose. One time I went through 1 mag/10 rounds with no issues besides brass flying straight back. Then next mag it jams every 1 in 3 rounds - sometimes just slide doesn’t close, but also couple of FTE issues.
Glock 26: 115g FMJ. 50 rounds 1 handed, and weak handed. About 4-5 jams. Way too many.
Glock 19: 50 rounds of 115g same rounds as above. Had 2-3 limp wrist jams when shooting weapon handed with 1 hand.
SIG P226: Only fired 2-3 full mags (aren’t they 15 rounds per mag?) and has 1 jam when I switched back to one handed and weak handed. After that 1 malfunction I put it away, as that was too early to have issues. Also the 226 grip wise didn’t feel the best.
S&W M#P: Fired 75-100 rounds of 115 grain fmj, same as last two.
But i Basically had zero issues!! I purposely tried to limp wrist it, even holding so little it almost felt like it could jump out. I used my middle finger to shoot, and sometime during that I got 1 FTE.
The other 75-100 rounds I also fired all rounds weak handed and purposely weak grip. It ran it fine, even with the gun jumping around in my hand......

So why is the M&P not proje to limp wristing? I mean I purposely tried weak handed with weak grip and it just kept going. Yet when I hold the Glock properly I still have issue. I thought M#P was polymer frame also? Is there a reason why M&P doesn’t appear prone to limp wristing?

ALSO: if I chanced the recoil spring on the Glock what should I change if due to? This is for 9mm G26, G19, or G43. Maybe that will Solve the issue.

What about the G42, is there a different recoil spring I can use to reduce limp wristing? I like the G42 as so far it’s been most reliable of all glock I shot, but still a couple jams that doesn’t make it fully trustable - yet.

Josh17 · August 3, 2018, 08:46 PM

BTW with the M&P I loaded 3 mags (16 rounds each) +1 in chamber each time so 17 rounds. I did “rapid fire” with my weak hand, and only using one hand. I also purposely held it weakly to test limp wristing.
All 51 rounds fired back to badk had zero issues.

Only issue was my grip was so weak that brass was flying all over (I assume that’s why) as a few pieces kinda bounced off my head and others where flying behind me. But it even locked open at the end every time....

What makes the M&P work fine with a weak grip + TRYING to limp wrist it and it still shot fine VS a Glock 19 that I didn’t even hold close to as loose but still got Limp wrist jams. Why? Is glock’s Frame more polymer then M&P? Or is it likely the recoil spring?
I saw a couple YouTube videos where of all the polymer striker fired guns they tested limp wristing, and the M&P had the least limit amount of issues with limp wrist by far, zero If I remember correctly, while Glock had lot...Hmm

745SW · August 4, 2018, 04:59 PM

I just resently watched a YouTube titled Limp Wristng Various Handguns by tire iron, Oct 21 2016. 12 pistols tested using target and hot loads using four finger hold. The full size Beretta 92 and S&W 5906 (all stainless) passed with no issues. The polymer S&W M&P 9 and S&W M&P 9C also passed with no issues. But I like to add that this test of 12 handguns is forgiving because of the use of a four finger hold and the failure of the slide not locking back after the last round is not considered a failure.

Another more memorable non-video test was done by, I believe, a retired detective whom has passed the last I know. His method was holding the pistol by the side using only two fingers and any malfunction, including locking of the slide, was considered a failure. The only pistol to pass fully was the Taurus clone of the Beretta 92. The other pistols were a G17, S&W 5900 serise, Hi Power and a Star, i think.

The Beretta does appear to jam when shot by a child, a slow-mo playback shows anticipation of the pistol firing, flinching.

Josh17 · August 5, 2018, 07:25 PM

I watched the same video, ha. IMO it was a good test, as he still held it extremely weak, which even if injured and firing one handed, chances are you’ll fire it much better than in the test video. At least IMO.

What I cannot figure out is:

Why is the M&P so good, or rather the least prone polymer framed (and striker fired) handgun to limp wrist? The guy in the video did say “M&P’s have the loosest lock up’s, while the FN guns have the tightest lock-up’s like a vault - so the video poster thought maybe that’s why the M&P was least likely to limp wrist, while the FN (and Glock) are very prone to i
Or is it something else? Like recoil spring? Or... I just don’t get it, unless being loose lock-up wise (I assume that means when ejecting the brass?) is the key to the M&P doing so well.

As I shot the all Steel framed Sig P226 and got a limp wrist malfunction. So the whole “heavier frame” isn’t entirely true. Mostly true, but the polymer M&P did better in my tests then the Steel framed Sig.

Also any other input on the Glock 42 being least prone to limp wristing? And what the best type of ammo to load into a Glock 42 to reduce the chances of a limp wrist failure? Is it just using hotter rounds?

I’ve decided I’m going to pick the most reliable gun overall, but one of the most important reliability factors is: will it work fine if limp wristed, or you have to draw from a weird angle and don’t have enough time to get a good grip, forcing you to limp wrist by accident.... I read and also heard that one study done showed that Law Enforcement when wounded found they kept having too many jams... Turns out they all had Glock’s and they were accidentally limp wristing the pistol due to getting injured. That’s the WORST time to get a malfunction is when in a fight or firefight! That’s why I hate limp wristing and want to avoid it.

**JohnKSa** · August 5, 2018, 08:39 PM

Quote:

I’ve decided I’m going to pick the most reliable gun overall...

That's not what I'm hearing. What you've decided is that you're going to pick the semi-auto that works the best for you out of the ones you've tried.

Frankly, if you are having this much trouble with grip-related malfunctions at the range under nearly ideal conditions, it seems inadvisable to pick a semi-auto for self-defense.

If I were in your position, I would stop wasting time, beating my head against a brick wall trying to get semi-autos to work for me, and I would start working on developing my revolver skill level.

By your own admission, you've been fighting this problem for "months". That's a lot of practice time wasted trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

If you are dead set against revolvers, then it's time to get some professional training from a reputable instructor who can help you deal with your grip issues. I think that will be a far better investment of your time and money vs. renting guns and buying ammunition and paying for range fees and still not getting any closer to a solution that works for you.

2damnold4this · August 5, 2018, 08:51 PM

Have you sought professional instruction? What did your instructor(s) say when you have the malfunctions?

TunnelRat · August 5, 2018, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh17

I read and also heard that one study done showed that Law Enforcement when wounded found they kept having too many jams... Turns out they all had Glock’s and they were accidentally limp wristing the pistol due to getting injured. That’s the WORST time to get a malfunction is when in a fight or firefight! That’s why I hate limp wristing and want to avoid it.

Do you have a source for this study?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

grinner · August 6, 2018, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

That's not what I'm hearing. What you've decided is that you're going to pick the semi-auto that works the best for you out of the ones you've tried.

Frankly, if you are having this much trouble with grip-related malfunctions at the range under nearly ideal conditions, it seems inadvisable to pick a semi-auto for self-defense.

If I were in your position, I would stop wasting time, beating my head against a brick wall trying to get semi-autos to work for me, and I would start working on developing my revolver skill level.

By your own admission, you've been fighting this problem for "months". That's a lot of practice time wasted trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

If you are dead set against revolvers, then it's time to get some professional training from a reputable instructor who can help you deal with your grip issues. I think that will be a far better investment of your time and money vs. renting guns and buying ammunition and paying for range fees and still not getting any closer to a solution that works for you.

+1 to this advise. I’ve been following this thread for awhile, wondering when someone was going to suggest a different platform or a trainer. It’s still not clear to me if the problem really is limp-wristing, or is rather dirty guns (since the OP noted this is primarily a problem on a rental, which are typically only cleaned after thousands of rounds, and that he had not cleaned his guns in a while), but I agree he needs the advise of someone to determine which it is.

And while revolvers don’t have the catchet of polymer striker-fire guns among some and have their own potential problems, limp-wristing isn’t one of them. Another option is to move to a heavier semi-auto with a steel frame that doesn’t have as much recoil.

Whatever the OP decides, he really needs to figure it out if he intends to carry one of these guns.

Josh17 · August 6, 2018, 11:55 PM

I already have revolver’s, the LCR is awesome. For a long time I only had revolves because I thought they looked better and where “superior” until I learned about Glock... Then I owned only Glock’s and revolvers. Bad idea on the Glock’s, at least for me.
Maybe when I said

Quote:

Only issue was my grip was so weak that brass was flying all over (I assume that’s why) as a few pieces kinda bounced off my head and others where flying behind me. But it even locked open at the end every time....

That could be taken the wrong way. I PURPOSELY was holding them weak handed, and purposely was limp wristing by holding it as weak as I could. Just like in the iron tire you tube video or MAC video on limp wristing. I did basically the same grip.

So when I purposely try to limp wrist, holding the gun WEAK handed and with basically a couple of fingers only, the results seem to be:
GLOCK’S are the problem, or not for me.

-M&P kept shooting no matter how much I tried to limp wrist it, damn near dropped it. Shot it 168 times while purposely holding it with like 2 finger grip only. So if it does that well when trying to limp wrist it, then shooting it two handed or strong handed would be no problem. Which I had zero issues when shooting it two handed or strong handed - even though I injured my strong hand (should be fully healed in a week just sprained it)
-Sig 226 also seemed to shoot everything, I did have one FTE but being a rental I don’t know if that was limp wrist or something else. But it went through a couple of mags even when holding it purposely weak, so limp wristing shouldn’t be an issue with an even semi proper grip - as again I was holding it so weakly (on purpose) so yeah.
-Beretta 92FS actually had zero malfunctions according to what I wrote down on the targets, so it went through 100 rounds firing it super weak handed and *trying* to make it limp wrist - but it kept going. So the Beretta also would work well for me, I just think it’s too big.

But Glock’s.... If I purposely try to limp wrist them it will jam back to back to back.

The reason why it’s taken me forever to decide is I’m a Glock fan-boy....Like super hard. I literally believed all other semi autos where inferior and couldn’t match the reliability even closely to that of a Glock. I bought into the Glock kool-aid for so long, so I kept trying to make them work.... NOW I finally realize Glock’s aren’t perfect, and they truly do suck for me.
I never, ever thought I would buy any semi auto that wasn’t a Glock - but I finally stopped drinking the Glock kool aid.

I mean I’ll probably test the Sig/Beretta’s for a couple hundred more rounds each just to be certain, but so far they have worked good.

I wonder how the new XD-S mod 2 in 9mm would do... From what I have read most xd’s are prone to limp wristing, so that sucks. As they are bragging about “reliability over capacity” and claim it went 25K rounds... But if it’s like Glock’s and prone to limp wristing, i’ll Pass.

I think the Military arms channel calling out limp wristing as a completely pathetic and horrible “excuse” for causing jams, he’s right IMO.

But the problem seems to be exclusive to Glock, or at least in my experience and many others also. If only Glock could fix that, but oh well.

July 17, 2018, 11:54 PM	#1
Josh17 Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 196	Am I limpwristing or what the heck? EDIT oops I posted a thread about limp-wristing the Glock’s a few months ago. Crap. A mod can close this thread if you like, as I don’t want to keep repeating the same thing over. My bad!! I haven’t logged in here for a while and forgot I posted this already months ago =\| This is super annoying and I cannot figure it out... I have wasted so much money renting Glock’s and ammo. This is happening on 3 different Glock’s: Glock 43 (rental, rented it so many times I could have purchased one by now ugh) Glock 26 - my own. Glock 19 - my own. Glock 19 has the least problems, but I also fire it the least. Here’s the confusing part: I believe maybe I’m limp wristing it, as I’m a small guy with small wrists - but it’s not reliable enough. Example: I fire it one handed often to test its reliability and to test limp wristing. Sometimes I can be holding it firmly one handed and got a failure to return to battery maybe 1-3 times per mag. THEN SUDDENLY I can hold it one handed and fire 2 mags in a row with ZERO issues. Same grip. Same ammo. I am confused. To make things more baffling: I have tried to hold it SUPER WEAK one handed - I held the Glock 43 one handed and it was super loose in my hand, on purpose, to try to induce a limp wristing failure. I fired maybe 5 rounds this way, and only got 1 malfunction and failure to return to battery...! Eh? Then I go back to FIRM one handed grip, and suddenly am having random failure to return to battery again. THEN suddenly I go through 2-4 Mags with no issues. So confused. NOTE: I had the Glock 43, Glock 26, AND Glock 19 at the range. I had the issue with all 3, and constantly rotated them. Here’s a pic of the type of malfunction. Is failure to return to battery the correct word? https://ibb.co/d8Apry https://ibb.co/mhx8jJ When I went to the range the other day I got 10-15 or so of those malfunctions. Easy to fix, just rack the slide and ready to go... But why does it keep happening? Last edited by Josh17; July 18, 2018 at 12:23 AM.

July 18, 2018, 12:46 AM	#3
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,835	The picture I get from your link shows the slide fully open, or very close to it. I would not call that a failure to return to battery. Yes, it is a failure to return to battery, but when we use that term, it's generally understood it to be the short form of "failure to fully return to battery", which means the slide goes forward, feeds the next round into the chamber, BUT stops before fully locking shut. This is not what is shown in the picture. Is there any remote chance that you are bumping the slide stop without realizing it?? Has anyone else shot those guns, and if so, did they have the same issues?? thinking about it, when you have one of these failures, exactly WHAT is holding the slide open??? Is it locked open (slide stop engaged??) is the slide just forward of the stop and touching the rear of the next round in the magazine? Did the round in the magazine move forward at all??? Since rounds do feed and fire and feed again, its not the recoil spring. Something is stopping the slide from going forward at random intervals. MAYBE its you, somehow, but maybe its the gun. Having several other people fire it can point to one or the other as the likely culprit. It LOOKS like the slide stop is engaging when it shouldn't. First you have to figure out if this is actually what is happening, then, if it is, why. This happening to multiple guns when you fire them seems to indicate its something you are doing, But not clearly enough to be able to say what, from here... Do you have access to any other guns than those particular Glocks?? Random stoppages are bad, I wouldn't carry or trust a gun that did that. And I think if it was something I did, and couldn't figure out what, I'd get a different gun, and keep getting different guns until I found one that didn't do that in my hands. Revolvers come to mind... Seriously, the problems you are getting, and the frequency of them, would make me put those guns in the "range toy" group until I figured out, and fixed the problem. I'd definitely be getting something else (and something that didn't have stoppages) as a "duty" sidearm. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 18, 2018, 07:02 AM	#4
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,013	As 44 amp allluded take a look at your grip, I have small hands as well. It's pretty easy to have your grip accidentally engage the slide stop. All it takes is a little upward pressure on the slide stop from a "too high" grip. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free Last edited by Ricklin; July 18, 2018 at 07:31 AM. Reason: SP

July 18, 2018, 03:34 PM	#6
dgludwig Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2005 Location: North central Ohio Posts: 7,486	Follow 44 AMP's suggestion and have other proficient pistoleers shoot the gun(s). If the malfunctions also happen for them, the gun(s) need to be looked at. If no malfunctions happen for them, you know who to look at. __________________ ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED ...Aristotle NRA Benefactor Life Member

July 19, 2018, 09:28 AM	#8
HighValleyRanch Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2005 Posts: 4,066	Try shooting with your support thumb OVER the strong side thumb to prevent riding the slide lock. See of that makes any difference. I don't think limp wristing will cause the slide to lock entirely back. Something would have to push the slide lock up to cause that. __________________ From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"

July 18, 2018, 12:17 AM	#2
Josh17 Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 196	Also: I rented the Glock 42 as I love how soft shooting and how little recoil it has. The Glock 42 was the MOST RELIABLE! Oddly... I had maybe 1-2 failures when firing one handed, trying to see if a limp wristing malfunction would occur. The G42 firing standard ball ammo did the best. While the 9mm G43, G26, and G19 did worse. I’ve heard of trying to change the recoil spring (do you go heavier or lighter?) and heavier ammo grains but... I thought limp wristing caused more FTE’s and such? The other day EVERY malfunction on 3 different 9mm Glock’s where ALL “failure to return to battery” like in the pics above. Can limp wristing truly cause that? Or am I maybe riding the slide stop on all 3 Glock’s without knowing it? It doesn’t seem to match typical limp-wristing but I could be wrong. I like revolvers but I don’t want to be limited to them. I’m not super recoil sensitive either, I find firing the G43 not to be snappy as many claim. Same for the Ruger LCR snubbie in 357, it’s not snappy to me. Normally people who limp wrist have issues with recoil on smaller guns from what I have read? I can fire the G43 all day without issues from the “recoil” - if only I could get it to shoot reliable!

July 18, 2018, 03:04 PM	#5
hogwiley Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Posts: 277	Looks like the slide is completely locked back, as happens after firing the last round in a magazine. If you push the slide lock lever down with your thumb, the slide should slam shut chambering a round. I assume this happens because you are pushing the slide lock up when firing somehow. If that's not the case then something else is wrong with the slide lock, which seems unlikely since this isn't a common problem and wouldn't likely happen on 3 different glocks.

July 19, 2018, 01:48 PM	#10
hogwiley Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Posts: 277	Well if you pushed the slide stop down and that "solved" the problem and it slammed shut chambering a round, then yeah, the slide stop lever locking the slide back is definitively whats happening. If you attempt to nudge the slide forward without pushing the slide stop lever down then it should not move because the slide lock is engaged. The good news is that this isn't a problem with the gun, and if you are conscious of not hitting it, then it should be easy to correct, or at least diagnose. The reason it probably happens when intentionally limp wristing is probably the way your holding the gun, since in most people a normal grip will rarely if ever activate the slide stop(I've literally never had this happen in thousands of rounds fired through various guns). I did have a Sig p228 that on a few occasions failed to lock back on the last round, either because my thumb was unintentionally pushing the slide lock lever down as I fired or there was something wrong with the magazine.

July 21, 2018, 09:11 PM	#11
Josh17 Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 196	I pushed it down. On the Glock 43, normally I would tap the mag to make sure it’s in place securely, and then attempt to simply rack the slide as I knew the malfunction was the slide not closing again... BUT.. Multiple times I had issues when I tried to rack the slide on the Glock 43 it didn’t want to move. My only guesses are: 1.) Slide stop was engaged/pressed by me, causing the issue. But: would that prevent me from being able to manually rack the slide until I mess with the slide stop?? 2.) I had a couple bandaids on my hand, which got in the way of racking the slide often. So maybe it was just my bandaid in the way. I can shoot the Glock 42 in 380 easily one handed, its recoil is so light and easy to hold and control. So.. I wondering if the G42 maybe would work better if I still have limp wristing issues with the G43 or G26? Maybe that extra control I have over the G42 due to lack of recoil would help prevent/reduce limp wristing??

July 31, 2018, 08:24 PM	#12
Josh17 Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 196	I am going to test this in a couple of days, finally (I injured my hand so if I tried to shoot I would injure it more - and my grip would be 2x weaker) BUT... It kinda makes a point. What if you do get injured, and have compromised grip? I mean right now yes, I can pick up the Glock 26 or 19 and hold it firmly one handed - but it hurts a little holding it, being I badly sprained my wrist (worse than just a sprain) so yeah if needed I could pick it up, grip it firmly and shoot - but if it has a malfunction that’s just not acceptable. I don’t understand why Glock’s are more prone to this? I watched a video where apparent S&W shields even being polymer just aren’t prone to limp wristing. Odd. I’ll give it one full “final” test in a few tests with multiple guns. BUT I don’t understand this: normally limp wristing causes constant malfunctions, like every shot, or every other shot, or every few shots - yet when I fire it one handed I can go 20 rounds in a row with zero issues then suddenly a random malfunction. Doesn’t seem to make any logical sense, besides maybe that every once in a while my wrist relax too much or my grip changes, causing that random malfunction. Any gun that is that sensitive cannot be trusted. I read that many times in Self-defense situations you could be using one hand to push them away, and the other hand to grab your pistol and fire from a odd angle, you won’t be able to fully extend and make a normal grip unless you want the bad guy to grab it. So if that’s true, limp wristing is unacceptable, as drawing like that with one hand and potentially using the other hand to push them back, that would make any-one prone to limp wrist on accident and be screwed, because Glock’s will only save your life if you have your arms fully extended, and elbows and wrists locked. �� Better ask the bad guy for a time-out while you into your proper stance and grip. ^^ LoL I love Glock’s, so before I bash them I’m doing a full cleaning and lube of the 26 and 19, and then doing a test of a good 200-300 rounds. I think I may be surprised to find out there are no issues.... As the gun-store owner (and instructor) asked me to show him my grip on both the G43, G26, and G19, and I guess my grip is good and not the issue. According to him. Or i’m Going to be really pissed and still get limp wrist failures with my proper grip, and sell all my Glock’s lol. I guess time will tell.

August 1, 2018, 07:14 AM	#14
tallball Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2014 Posts: 2,444	1) This is something the OP can fix: Keep thumb away from slide stop. 2) Glocks are quite possibly not the right shape for the OP's hand. 3) Revolvers are good. I own many fine semi-automatic pistols, and still prefer to carry a revolver most of the time.

August 3, 2018, 05:20 PM	#15
MoArk Willy Member Join Date: June 15, 2018 Posts: 93	I had a similar problem with my PT111 G2. It always fired and cycled but wouldn't return to full battery, like your second picture. No apparent obstruction and I could easily push it into battery with a gentle nudge with my thumb. I disassembled the gun, cleans and lubed and re-assembled it. No difference. I wound up replacing the recoil spring assemble (captured on that model) and that took care of it instantly.

August 3, 2018, 06:46 PM	#16
745SW Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2011 Location: California Posts: 776	My 2cents. The G42 is most reliable because the form factor of the pistol fits the 380ACP ME (muzzle energy), about half the ME of 9mm, better The G19 has the largest form factor of the bunch in 9mm, making it the second most reliable. G43 and G26 are subcompact 9mm pistols having a comparatively small form factor making for the least reliable. My guess is the ammo used are range reloads using a medium speed powder. This powder is good for mass quantity because it meters well compared to fast powder that frequently needs to be monitored. if the medium powder is used in low charges it can give inconsistent performance.

August 3, 2018, 08:38 PM	#17
Josh17 Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 196	Interesting so a Glock 42 is less likely to have limp wristing? I love the G42, but cannot recall how many jams I had - but it was less then the G16 or 19 I tested them today and decided I have 1 final test to do, BUT if Glock fails this final test I had two guns I loved and worked excellent! I need to clean and lube the Glock 26 and 19, as I haven’t done a true cleaning on them in years... Granted I probably only put 500 rounds in those years without cleaning/lube. If after cleaning and lube I get any more issues I then will done with Glock. Here is what I DON’T get: I fired weak handed and limp wristed on purpose. One time I went through 1 mag/10 rounds with no issues besides brass flying straight back. Then next mag it jams every 1 in 3 rounds - sometimes just slide doesn’t close, but also couple of FTE issues. Glock 26: 115g FMJ. 50 rounds 1 handed, and weak handed. About 4-5 jams. Way too many. Glock 19: 50 rounds of 115g same rounds as above. Had 2-3 limp wrist jams when shooting weapon handed with 1 hand. SIG P226: Only fired 2-3 full mags (aren’t they 15 rounds per mag?) and has 1 jam when I switched back to one handed and weak handed. After that 1 malfunction I put it away, as that was too early to have issues. Also the 226 grip wise didn’t feel the best. S&W M#P: Fired 75-100 rounds of 115 grain fmj, same as last two. But i Basically had zero issues!! I purposely tried to limp wrist it, even holding so little it almost felt like it could jump out. I used my middle finger to shoot, and sometime during that I got 1 FTE. The other 75-100 rounds I also fired all rounds weak handed and purposely weak grip. It ran it fine, even with the gun jumping around in my hand...... So why is the M&P not proje to limp wristing? I mean I purposely tried weak handed with weak grip and it just kept going. Yet when I hold the Glock properly I still have issue. I thought M#P was polymer frame also? Is there a reason why M&P doesn’t appear prone to limp wristing? ALSO: if I chanced the recoil spring on the Glock what should I change if due to? This is for 9mm G26, G19, or G43. Maybe that will Solve the issue. What about the G42, is there a different recoil spring I can use to reduce limp wristing? I like the G42 as so far it’s been most reliable of all glock I shot, but still a couple jams that doesn’t make it fully trustable - yet.

August 3, 2018, 08:46 PM	#18
Josh17 Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 196	BTW with the M&P I loaded 3 mags (16 rounds each) +1 in chamber each time so 17 rounds. I did “rapid fire” with my weak hand, and only using one hand. I also purposely held it weakly to test limp wristing. All 51 rounds fired back to badk had zero issues. Only issue was my grip was so weak that brass was flying all over (I assume that’s why) as a few pieces kinda bounced off my head and others where flying behind me. But it even locked open at the end every time.... What makes the M&P work fine with a weak grip + TRYING to limp wrist it and it still shot fine VS a Glock 19 that I didn’t even hold close to as loose but still got Limp wrist jams. Why? Is glock’s Frame more polymer then M&P? Or is it likely the recoil spring? I saw a couple YouTube videos where of all the polymer striker fired guns they tested limp wristing, and the M&P had the least limit amount of issues with limp wrist by far, zero If I remember correctly, while Glock had lot...Hmm

August 4, 2018, 04:59 PM	#19
745SW Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2011 Location: California Posts: 776	I just resently watched a YouTube titled Limp Wristng Various Handguns by tire iron, Oct 21 2016. 12 pistols tested using target and hot loads using four finger hold. The full size Beretta 92 and S&W 5906 (all stainless) passed with no issues. The polymer S&W M&P 9 and S&W M&P 9C also passed with no issues. But I like to add that this test of 12 handguns is forgiving because of the use of a four finger hold and the failure of the slide not locking back after the last round is not considered a failure. Another more memorable non-video test was done by, I believe, a retired detective whom has passed the last I know. His method was holding the pistol by the side using only two fingers and any malfunction, including locking of the slide, was considered a failure. The only pistol to pass fully was the Taurus clone of the Beretta 92. The other pistols were a G17, S&W 5900 serise, Hi Power and a Star, i think. The Beretta does appear to jam when shot by a child, a slow-mo playback shows anticipation of the pistol firing, flinching.

August 5, 2018, 07:25 PM	#20
Josh17 Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 196	I watched the same video, ha. IMO it was a good test, as he still held it extremely weak, which even if injured and firing one handed, chances are you’ll fire it much better than in the test video. At least IMO. What I cannot figure out is: Why is the M&P so good, or rather the least prone polymer framed (and striker fired) handgun to limp wrist? The guy in the video did say “M&P’s have the loosest lock up’s, while the FN guns have the tightest lock-up’s like a vault - so the video poster thought maybe that’s why the M&P was least likely to limp wrist, while the FN (and Glock) are very prone to i Or is it something else? Like recoil spring? Or... I just don’t get it, unless being loose lock-up wise (I assume that means when ejecting the brass?) is the key to the M&P doing so well. As I shot the all Steel framed Sig P226 and got a limp wrist malfunction. So the whole “heavier frame” isn’t entirely true. Mostly true, but the polymer M&P did better in my tests then the Steel framed Sig. Also any other input on the Glock 42 being least prone to limp wristing? And what the best type of ammo to load into a Glock 42 to reduce the chances of a limp wrist failure? Is it just using hotter rounds? I’ve decided I’m going to pick the most reliable gun overall, but one of the most important reliability factors is: will it work fine if limp wristed, or you have to draw from a weird angle and don’t have enough time to get a good grip, forcing you to limp wrist by accident.... I read and also heard that one study done showed that Law Enforcement when wounded found they kept having too many jams... Turns out they all had Glock’s and they were accidentally limp wristing the pistol due to getting injured. That’s the WORST time to get a malfunction is when in a fight or firefight! That’s why I hate limp wristing and want to avoid it.

August 5, 2018, 08:51 PM	#22
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	Have you sought professional instruction? What did your instructor(s) say when you have the malfunctions?