Double-barrel vs Pump for self-defense ? - Page 2

Nnobby45 · August 24, 2010, 05:50 PM

Quote:

I have personally
watched a prowler (intentions unknown) set a hundred yard dash record upon
hearing that sound.

That's frequently the case. Especially if he's still outside and can hear the slide being operated.

However, I wonder how many who, under different circumstances, were willing to rack and hope that Bubba would pee his pants and flee, but were, instead, met with incoming gunfire one second after exposing their position. Either from Bubba, or one of his friends who didn't flee, and whose presence the dead home owner was never aware of.

Responses to danger, if I recall, are fight, flee, or freeze. That applies to Bubba as well as the rest of us. Not all Bubbas are scared, unarmed pansies.

Talking about racking the slide as a psychological tactic to be used in all circumstances is unwise--though it may have it's place in specific scenarios.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

hogdogs · August 24, 2010, 06:22 PM

I am a firm believer that the sound of a cycling pump action will scare the livin' chit out of a feller... But in my situation, I would have to make a few minutes cuz their ears ringing after the first shot will drown out most sounds for quite a spell...

Brent

Jo6pak · August 24, 2010, 06:28 PM

I'l have to agree with the pump action guys. Everyone knows that sound. At it will more often than not, end the incident in a hurry.

I speak from experience on that one

Scattergun Bob · August 24, 2010, 09:42 PM

Not trying to start a argument, NOT everyone knows the sound of a pump action scattergun being racked. Racking a scattergun is part of the maunal of arms to get into action, if it works to passively deter your enemy FINE, if not it steels the operator to the action he is about to take.

For those of you who are fans of the "sound", here is a little story from my history that you might like.

Quote:

It was 10:00 at night, the lights and sounds of “O” city pulsed in the distance and beaconed to three young salty dogs. As usual we had arrived back a Cubi point in the morning, ate a hardy meal and slept the day away in peace and calm, our first in two weeks. We were now looking for “other” delights that the city would afford.
Once we had cleared our heads and assembled there were no busses and very few taxies operating from Amphibious pier 6 cubi point, in our hast, and a 12:00 base closure, we allowed our little heads to control our actions and decided to cross Cubi point air field and get to the promised land “the main gate”. As combat vets and brown water sailors of the first water, we felt it our duty to violate the marine restricted barrier and walk across the air strip and enter “heaven”. We hopped the fence and started our operation and about 4 minutes into our assault on the air field, in pitch darkness, we heard that sound, the slide of a pump scattergun and the challenge of “halt who goes there”. Now, our unit carried both model 12 and 870 fighting scatterguns, and all three of use understood the peril of the situation. We froze in place and id’ed our selves and received a usual harassing message from the Marine guard, and “thankfully” a ride to the main gate.
I will never forget that sound delivered in the black, however, I KNEW what it was, I will also never forget the case of NSUI I caught that night.

Good Luck & Be Safe

Fifth Wheel · August 24, 2010, 10:24 PM

Even though I believe in pumps, I don't believe in ever pumping the action to signal to the bad guy that I'm coming. I keep my 870 loaded with the safety on. If I have to deal with a life threatening situation, hopefully I can get the drop on the bad guy before he even knows I'm there. Speed and stealth are key if you want to save your skin or the skin of your loved ones. To hell with pumping the action to announce you're there. Puffery is best left for the school yard.

Scattergun Bob · August 24, 2010, 10:49 PM

As always I consider this to be a foolish practice, I have stated so in may threads. I do not believe a devise that only blocks the trigger to be a reliable safety, and there are many accounts of this type of safety failing.

The term "cruiser" ready was established as a standard in LE training to prevent the numerous accidental holes in cars and people. Enough Said.

Good Luck & Be Safe

Fifth Wheel · August 24, 2010, 11:10 PM

Well, I've been using the 870 for over 20 years and never once had a problem. The one I keep next to my bed at night leans against my wall, and it doesn't get banged around. I treat it with care. I've been around guns long enough to know to keep my finger off the trigger when I'm not shooting. Say what you will, but if the time ever comes that I must use the 870 for self-defense, I don't plan to pump it to get off the first shot. I plan to disengage the safety. That's what the safety is there for.

Scattergun Bob · August 24, 2010, 11:30 PM

I have been using a 870 for MUCH longer than that! Good luck with your plan.

Fifth Wheel · August 25, 2010, 09:27 AM

Thanks.

Historyedguru · August 25, 2010, 07:38 PM

A Corps buddy of mine just back from "the Sandbox" states that, in the built up areas and during interrogation, the racking of their 590s tends to have a positive effect on the mood of the natives. They know exactly what it is and what it portends.

Rampant_Colt · August 25, 2010, 07:52 PM

"racking the slide" does two things:

1.) escalates the scenario

2.) gives away your position

What if there's more than one bad guy?
What if he/they're armed as well?

After racking the slide, you better be ready to put up or shut up

A double-barrel shotgun doesn't give you that option.. Bad guys are expected to quake in their boots or soil themselves upon seeing the shotgun pointed at them

Willie Lowman · August 25, 2010, 08:00 PM

Based on personal experience, bad guys don't always run when they hear the sound of a shotgun being pumped. They also don't always run when they see you pointing a shotgun at them.

ET. · August 25, 2010, 10:28 PM

I keep a Remington tactical 870 (6+1) beside my bed loaded with 00 buckshot. I feel safe.

WARRIOR I · August 26, 2010, 09:32 PM

Yep. That's why I qualified my comments with the condition that you can't
depend on it working in all situations. Still, it can and has worked to
de-escalate what might have been much more serious situations. And that's
partly why I'd be more inclined to grab my Ithaca 37 rather than one of my
doubles in response to a threat on my home turf.

Hoskins · August 26, 2010, 09:55 PM

I'd rather have one in the chamber. I agree that some of the times, the soound of the racking action of the pump will scare off the bad guys (prob not zombies though

).

Anyways, if there is a bad dude in my house, the only way that I'm gonna be de-escalating the situation is buy putting some 00 and/or 000 BUCK down range. If they are in the house, they are past the point of no return. Breaking the threshold of my door or window puts them in my world & puts the law on my side.

I'd rather be concealed, have suprise, time to set up my ambush or defense, & have the shot. If I get in trouble from the law for taking out someone who's broken into my house...so be it...as long as my wife & child are safe then it is worth it.

hogdogs · August 27, 2010, 12:59 AM

I am quite certain that by the time I silently cycle a round to the chamber of my Mossberg 500 and drop the hammer... All will be safe here... i will have a fresh pot of coffee brewed for the folks in uniform to sip as they do their "follow up" work.... The only thing that sucks, is I doubt I will be allowed to return to bed as the wife supervises cleanup.... I will be a grumpy little princess all the next day and when I finally get to my own bed, mrs.h-dogs will throttle anyone who tries to wake me! She knows just how important "BEAUTY SLEEP" is to me... and she really hates to see me pouting!
Brent

Double Naught Spy · August 27, 2010, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Think Clint Smith has said a few positive words and had his picture made with a double-barrel shotgun lately.

Yeah, I liked how the light was rubberbanded to the barrels.

NeroBrandt · August 27, 2010, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Yeah, I liked how the light was rubberbanded to the barrels.

Only the best...

WVfishguy · August 28, 2010, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Hammer1: There were some of the new Stoeger double-barrels with picatinny rails for lasers and such. They also have the barrels ported.

I was looking at one of those the other day, but I didn't notice the ported barrel.

I LOVED the way the Stoeger handled; light & handy. I may end up getting one, eventually.

I feel fine with a double barrel for HD.

In the meantime, I have my pumps.

USAF_Vet · August 29, 2010, 12:27 AM

I go with the pump. 2 rounds is great if there are only one or two BGs. but as is often the case in my area, BGs travel in packs, we call 'em gangs, maybe the term will catch on.

Anyway, I feel much better about 5 or 6 shots before a reload versus only 2.

Gary L. Griffiths · August 29, 2010, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Anyway, I feel much better about 5 or 6 shots before a reload versus only 2.

Plus, you can reload (top off) a pump without disabling it.

TylerD45ACP · August 29, 2010, 01:36 PM

How bout an AA12 with the drum magazine.

( I would love to be able to get one.)

Jo6pak · August 29, 2010, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rampant Colt

"racking the slide" does two things:

1.) escalates the scenario

2.) gives away your position

What if there's more than one bad guy?
What if he/they're armed as well?

After racking the slide, you better be ready to put up or shut up

My situation was this....
About fifteen years ago
I awoke to the noise of my apartment door being roughly forced open. I first thought it was my roomate coming home (perhaps a little "hydrated") I sat up in bed and yelled "***?" (I could see the front door from my bedroom.)
It was not my roomate, but rather two rather shady customers entering the living room, undeterred that someone was home. My bedroom is dark, the light is on in the living room. I can see them, they most likely, don't see me very well. I shout "Who the F are you", roll over, grab my 870 and jump out of bed. The first guy is still moving slowly towards my room, trying to see into the darkness.
I shoulder the scattergun, and pump the first round into acton.....
The guy stops in his tracks(I can still see his saucer sized eyeballs bulging out as he hears the sound of impending doom), yells "F@#k man, run!" as the two beat feet out the door.

No fear, no reaction, untill they hear "That sound."
And yes I was ready to "put up"

I agree there are times when you don't want to announce your position, but if you're going to issue a challenge, there is aren't many better ways to make it clear than with the "sound of security"

WARRIOR I · August 29, 2010, 06:04 PM

I rest my case.

TX Hunter · August 29, 2010, 07:28 PM

To me it would be hard to beat a Compact Mosberg 12 Guage Pump for self defense.
The controlls are in all the right places, and it is easy to top of extra rounds.
With my Mosberg I can go from empty shotgun, to fired round very quickly.
I would rather use one of these than a double barrel.

August 24, 2010, 06:28 PM	#28
Jo6pak Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2010 Location: West Coast...of WI Posts: 1,663	I'l have to agree with the pump action guys. Everyone knows that sound. At it will more often than not, end the incident in a hurry. I speak from experience on that one __________________ NRA Life Member, SAF contributor.

August 24, 2010, 10:49 PM	#31
Scattergun Bob Senior Member Join Date: February 29, 2008 Location: Nine Mile Falls, Washington Posts: 1,186	Fifth Wheel As always I consider this to be a foolish practice, I have stated so in may threads. I do not believe a devise that only blocks the trigger to be a reliable safety, and there are many accounts of this type of safety failing. The term "cruiser" ready was established as a standard in LE training to prevent the numerous accidental holes in cars and people. Enough Said. Good Luck & Be Safe __________________ First, with the most, WINS! Regards, Scattergun Bob

August 24, 2010, 11:30 PM	#33
Scattergun Bob Senior Member Join Date: February 29, 2008 Location: Nine Mile Falls, Washington Posts: 1,186	Fifth Wheel I have been using a 870 for MUCH longer than that! Good luck with your plan. __________________ First, with the most, WINS! Regards, Scattergun Bob

August 25, 2010, 07:52 PM	#36
Rampant_Colt Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 1,478	"racking the slide" does two things: 1.) escalates the scenario 2.) gives away your position What if there's more than one bad guy? What if he/they're armed as well? After racking the slide, you better be ready to put up or shut up A double-barrel shotgun doesn't give you that option.. Bad guys are expected to quake in their boots or soil themselves upon seeing the shotgun pointed at them __________________ member of an elite paramilitary organization: Eagle Scouts

August 25, 2010, 08:00 PM	#37
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	Based on personal experience, bad guys don't always run when they hear the sound of a shotgun being pumped. They also don't always run when they see you pointing a shotgun at them. __________________ "9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens

August 24, 2010, 06:22 PM	#27
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	I am a firm believer that the sound of a cycling pump action will scare the livin' chit out of a feller... But in my situation, I would have to make a few minutes cuz their ears ringing after the first shot will drown out most sounds for quite a spell... Brent

August 24, 2010, 10:24 PM	#30
Fifth Wheel Member Join Date: March 21, 2006 Posts: 49	Even though I believe in pumps, I don't believe in ever pumping the action to signal to the bad guy that I'm coming. I keep my 870 loaded with the safety on. If I have to deal with a life threatening situation, hopefully I can get the drop on the bad guy before he even knows I'm there. Speed and stealth are key if you want to save your skin or the skin of your loved ones. To hell with pumping the action to announce you're there. Puffery is best left for the school yard.

August 24, 2010, 11:10 PM	#32
Fifth Wheel Member Join Date: March 21, 2006 Posts: 49	Well, I've been using the 870 for over 20 years and never once had a problem. The one I keep next to my bed at night leans against my wall, and it doesn't get banged around. I treat it with care. I've been around guns long enough to know to keep my finger off the trigger when I'm not shooting. Say what you will, but if the time ever comes that I must use the 870 for self-defense, I don't plan to pump it to get off the first shot. I plan to disengage the safety. That's what the safety is there for.

August 25, 2010, 09:27 AM	#34
Fifth Wheel Member Join Date: March 21, 2006 Posts: 49	Thanks.

August 25, 2010, 07:38 PM	#35
Historyedguru Member Join Date: August 22, 2010 Location: Western Massachusetts Posts: 37	A Corps buddy of mine just back from "the Sandbox" states that, in the built up areas and during interrogation, the racking of their 590s tends to have a positive effect on the mood of the natives. They know exactly what it is and what it portends.

August 25, 2010, 10:28 PM	#38
ET. Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2010 Location: Savannah, Ga. Posts: 638	I keep a Remington tactical 870 (6+1) beside my bed loaded with 00 buckshot. I feel safe. __________________ Soldiers are dying every day to protect our freedoms. The least we can do is vote.

August 26, 2010, 09:32 PM	#39
WARRIOR I Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2009 Location: SC Posts: 169	Slide Racking Yep. That's why I qualified my comments with the condition that you can't depend on it working in all situations. Still, it can and has worked to de-escalate what might have been much more serious situations. And that's partly why I'd be more inclined to grab my Ithaca 37 rather than one of my doubles in response to a threat on my home turf.

August 26, 2010, 09:55 PM	#40
Hoskins Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2010 Posts: 240	I'd rather have one in the chamber. I agree that some of the times, the soound of the racking action of the pump will scare off the bad guys (prob not zombies though). Anyways, if there is a bad dude in my house, the only way that I'm gonna be de-escalating the situation is buy putting some 00 and/or 000 BUCK down range. If they are in the house, they are past the point of no return. Breaking the threshold of my door or window puts them in my world & puts the law on my side. I'd rather be concealed, have suprise, time to set up my ambush or defense, & have the shot. If I get in trouble from the law for taking out someone who's broken into my house...so be it...as long as my wife & child are safe then it is worth it.

August 27, 2010, 12:59 AM	#41
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	I am quite certain that by the time I silently cycle a round to the chamber of my Mossberg 500 and drop the hammer... All will be safe here... i will have a fresh pot of coffee brewed for the folks in uniform to sip as they do their "follow up" work.... The only thing that sucks, is I doubt I will be allowed to return to bed as the wife supervises cleanup.... I will be a grumpy little princess all the next day and when I finally get to my own bed, mrs.h-dogs will throttle anyone who tries to wake me! She knows just how important "BEAUTY SLEEP" is to me... and she really hates to see me pouting! Brent

August 29, 2010, 12:27 AM	#45
USAF_Vet Member Join Date: August 24, 2010 Posts: 63	I go with the pump. 2 rounds is great if there are only one or two BGs. but as is often the case in my area, BGs travel in packs, we call 'em gangs, maybe the term will catch on. Anyway, I feel much better about 5 or 6 shots before a reload versus only 2.

August 29, 2010, 01:36 PM	#47
TylerD45ACP Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2010 Posts: 1,654	How bout an AA12 with the drum magazine. ( I would love to be able to get one.)

August 29, 2010, 06:04 PM	#49
WARRIOR I Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2009 Location: SC Posts: 169	I rest my case.

August 29, 2010, 07:28 PM	#50
TX Hunter Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2010 Location: East Texas USA Posts: 1,805	To me it would be hard to beat a Compact Mosberg 12 Guage Pump for self defense. The controlls are in all the right places, and it is easy to top of extra rounds. With my Mosberg I can go from empty shotgun, to fired round very quickly. I would rather use one of these than a double barrel.