M39 "sneaks" or Late Dates and B Barrels at Classic

deerslayer303 · December 29, 2015, 07:21 PM

Get em while you can boys. I just ordered a Late Date to add to my beloved Mil Surp Collection.

It was a hard decision for me to make between the late date and the B barrel. But in the end I just went for the Late Date since I already have a war time M39.

Surp · January 2, 2016, 02:15 AM

I held out on what classic was offering until I saw the B barrel and late dates then I was faced with the same hard choice as you (also considered the SKY) but went for an unissued B instead. Also even though the B's are dated 42 they are also actually post war production rifles that were made with leftover Belgium contracted M91 barrels that the Finns cut down for M39 use.

deerslayer303 · January 2, 2016, 10:23 AM

Nice, Surp! Post up some pics when you get her. I'll do the same. I'm super happy with the Hand Select 1944 Sako I got from them. I can't wait to see what this so call "unissued" late date looks like. This addiction is a monster.

gyvel · January 3, 2016, 12:02 AM

I have a question for you Finn owners. About 7 or 8 years ago I purchased a B barrel on the urging of a fellow collector colleague of mine. When I received it, it was obviously an unissued barrel, but the grooves looked like they had been broached with a round bastard file.

I didn't lose on the deal, as my friend bought it from me after I immediately decided I didn't want it, but what I want to know is have any of you had a similar experience with a B barrel gun?

Surp · January 3, 2016, 05:20 AM

What makes you say it was an unissued barrel? I ask because the Finns did take care of and pride in their weapons and as I said the B's were made out of war time regardless of the 42 date. So is it possible it could have been a rifle that was used for marksmen training and just well taken care of?

Anyway without actually seeing what you're talking about it's hard to say. I will try and post a pic of the rifling on my unissue when it comes in.

skizzums · January 3, 2016, 06:02 AM

I have an m91 with a "D" marked barrel and the inside is deplorable, but it can actually shoot pretty well since working the crown. I crowned mine at 14° with the intentions of working back a degree to 10° to see if crown angle actually effects accurucy and if so, if less is better for flat-base and a little is better for boat-tailed, as I have seen rumored on the web's. Anyhow, I had major improvement right off the bat with the 14 and have since all but forgotten how much of a pain it would be to target crown a mosin 5x. Any crown, whether a flat or 11° is going to make your mosin shoots like a totally different gun, as long as you take care to be concentric. I've been shocked at how bad the barrels can look visually on some decent shooting mosin's, and if your having accuracy issues and you have made sure your stock is movement free, bedding may be absolutely nessecary or maybe just an extra step to ensure more consistency, and your rifle is floated with 're-enforcement to the recoil lug.....I would hit that crown and I'd bet money, well....like uh, five bucks or something, that the crown may be the biggest accuracy benefit and can be done so in a way that will not tarnish the collectibility to the extend that wooding out stocks and floating does.

As the days pass and I see the Mosin market run dry and pricey, I do think I'll ultimately regret shortening the barrels of my m91 and should have used my old Russian 30, but at the time with no original Finnish stock and zero availability when attempting to track one down, I figured it's not going to make a stink, but I shoulda tried harder or just waited and took advantage of the $125, seemingly bottomless, 91/30 market for my project.

gyvel · January 3, 2016, 08:34 AM

Quote:

What makes you say it was an unissued barrel? I ask because the Finns did take care of and pride in their weapons and as I said the B's were made out of war time regardless of the 42 date. So is it possible it could have been a rifle that was used for marksmen training and just well taken care of?

It was advertised as unissued. The rest of the gun looked new, that's for sure, but the grooves themselves in the bore although not worn, looked like they were broached with a very tired bit. The whole thing just looked...dull. It's hard to explain, and I don't have it anymore.

Anyway, as I said, my friend took it as that was his interest, and I got another 39 that has a beautiful bore. I'm not a Finn or Mosin collector, so the specimen I have now fits the bill.

(I say I'm not a Mosin collector, but somehow I have managed to acquire more than a dozen of them [still], and I don't know why or how, and I have already sold some. I think maybe they're reproducing...

)

browntailguy · January 4, 2016, 01:31 PM

They are advertising that some of the rifles have hang tags. What does that mean? Will the quality of the rifle be better? I'm looking to start using my C&R License and I love rifle shooting and these things are supposed to be shooters. This will be a range gun. I love shooting if you were going to buy one today which one of the options would you buy? Leaning towards a "sneak" but would like some recommendations. Thanks

deerslayer303 · January 4, 2016, 02:04 PM

The hang tags are the tags the Arsenals hang on them supposedly after refurbishment. Or thats what I understand about them. Doesn't mean THAT particular rifle will be any better than any of the others. You really can't go wrong with ANY M39. With that said if you want a range gun, and if I were you I would go with the Late Date ("sneak"). The reason I say this is because these rifles never saw combat and were produced in the 60's and 70's. So the bore on them should be fantastic. And they should look GREAT as well. I will find out if my theory holds water when my Sneak gets here. They still haven't shipped it yet, with the holiday and all.

Surp · January 5, 2016, 02:21 AM

Again both the late date no makers and the B barrels were made out of war time. Most Finns look pretty decent and have pretty good bores because as I said they tended to take fairly good care of their stuff (not that you couldn't get a limon). As a range toy any of them would work but like with most surplus dealings it's all really luck of the draw and you won't know exactly what you're going to get or how it will shoot until you get/shoot it so it just depends what you're interested in and what you want to spend.

The late dates and B barrels are going to be rarer since less were produced but they also lack that war time history so it's all in what you're looking for.

deerslayer303 · January 5, 2016, 06:28 PM

I got my Late Date No Maker M39 in today. All I can say is OMG, this thing is SO SWEET! Very Beautiful. It is Dated 1968. Excellent bore all the bluing is there, the stock has a dull finish it's not glossy like my Sako. No dings, nicks, or scratches really either. I'm impressed. She is still greasy, but here are a few pics.

Surp · January 6, 2016, 12:51 AM

How are people already getting theirs and mine just shipped today? I ordered on the 29th like a two hours after they dropped... My luck I guess.

Anyway GOOD looking rifle man! You will have to do an update to let us know how it groups.

deerslayer303 · January 6, 2016, 07:20 AM

I ordered mine on the 29th as well. Not long after I got the email. I only live about 120 miles from Classic so it gets here fast.

Surp · January 8, 2016, 02:45 AM

My rifling seems to be A-OK to me gyvel both grooves and lands.

deerslayer303 · January 8, 2016, 05:44 AM

Great Pic and nice looking bore. I've never been able to take a decent bore pic.

deerslayer303 · January 14, 2016, 01:17 PM

Well SURP, What did ya get, I've been waiting on your pics!

Gaucho Gringo · January 17, 2016, 12:49 AM

What is a 1945 MN ? I have one that I inherited from my FIL and the finish looks different than my mid '30s one, looks almost parkerized rather than blued. It looks to be almost brand new.

Surp · January 20, 2016, 01:30 AM

above are pics of the bore and here are some pics of everything.

Another of the bore/crown. Bore and crown are in like new condition and nothing but a very small amount of dry cosmoline came out when I patched it. Can't say I have ever owned a firearm new or used that literally nothing (other than a little cos as said) came out of the bore before this.

Blank tag.

The bolt and bolt face are a bit rough definitely a lot rougher and harder to work then my 91/30.

Stock is like new other then these two small repairs. it has a non-gloss finish like my M41b.

The whole deal.

Surp · January 20, 2016, 01:42 AM

Gaucho Gringo All I can really tell you from your description is that it's some type of MN with a 1945 dated receiver and that it might have the famous Russian dip bluing/black paint finish.

deerslayer303 · January 20, 2016, 06:57 AM

Very nice lookin Rifle Surp with a superb bore. Your bore pic taking skills are excellent

. The bolts on both of my M39's were very stiff until I completely disassembled them and gave the rifle (and disassembled bolt) a bath in Mineral spirits. There was a good bit of grease in the locking recesses. They are slicker than Owl snot now. Still haven't fired them yet.

December 29, 2015, 07:21 PM	#1
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,652	M39 "sneaks" or Late Dates and B Barrels at Classic Get em while you can boys. I just ordered a Late Date to add to my beloved Mil Surp Collection. It was a hard decision for me to make between the late date and the B barrel. But in the end I just went for the Late Date since I already have a war time M39. Last edited by deerslayer303; January 1, 2016 at 01:57 PM.

January 2, 2016, 02:15 AM	#2
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	I held out on what classic was offering until I saw the B barrel and late dates then I was faced with the same hard choice as you (also considered the SKY) but went for an unissued B instead. Also even though the B's are dated 42 they are also actually post war production rifles that were made with leftover Belgium contracted M91 barrels that the Finns cut down for M39 use. Last edited by Surp; January 2, 2016 at 02:27 AM.

January 3, 2016, 12:02 AM	#4
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	I have a question for you Finn owners. About 7 or 8 years ago I purchased a B barrel on the urging of a fellow collector colleague of mine. When I received it, it was obviously an unissued barrel, but the grooves looked like they had been broached with a round bastard file. I didn't lose on the deal, as my friend bought it from me after I immediately decided I didn't want it, but what I want to know is have any of you had a similar experience with a B barrel gun? __________________ As always, YMMV. __________________________________________ MIIAA SIFE

January 3, 2016, 05:20 AM	#5
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	What makes you say it was an unissued barrel? I ask because the Finns did take care of and pride in their weapons and as I said the B's were made out of war time regardless of the 42 date. So is it possible it could have been a rifle that was used for marksmen training and just well taken care of? Anyway without actually seeing what you're talking about it's hard to say. I will try and post a pic of the rifling on my unissue when it comes in. Last edited by Surp; January 3, 2016 at 05:29 AM.

January 3, 2016, 06:02 AM	#6
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	I have an m91 with a "D" marked barrel and the inside is deplorable, but it can actually shoot pretty well since working the crown. I crowned mine at 14° with the intentions of working back a degree to 10° to see if crown angle actually effects accurucy and if so, if less is better for flat-base and a little is better for boat-tailed, as I have seen rumored on the web's. Anyhow, I had major improvement right off the bat with the 14 and have since all but forgotten how much of a pain it would be to target crown a mosin 5x. Any crown, whether a flat or 11° is going to make your mosin shoots like a totally different gun, as long as you take care to be concentric. I've been shocked at how bad the barrels can look visually on some decent shooting mosin's, and if your having accuracy issues and you have made sure your stock is movement free, bedding may be absolutely nessecary or maybe just an extra step to ensure more consistency, and your rifle is floated with 're-enforcement to the recoil lug.....I would hit that crown and I'd bet money, well....like uh, five bucks or something, that the crown may be the biggest accuracy benefit and can be done so in a way that will not tarnish the collectibility to the extend that wooding out stocks and floating does. As the days pass and I see the Mosin market run dry and pricey, I do think I'll ultimately regret shortening the barrels of my m91 and should have used my old Russian 30, but at the time with no original Finnish stock and zero availability when attempting to track one down, I figured it's not going to make a stink, but I shoulda tried harder or just waited and took advantage of the $125, seemingly bottomless, 91/30 market for my project. __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

January 2, 2016, 10:23 AM	#3
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,652	Nice, Surp! Post up some pics when you get her. I'll do the same. I'm super happy with the Hand Select 1944 Sako I got from them. I can't wait to see what this so call "unissued" late date looks like. This addiction is a monster.

January 4, 2016, 01:31 PM	#8
browntailguy Member Join Date: November 30, 2008 Posts: 27	They are advertising that some of the rifles have hang tags. What does that mean? Will the quality of the rifle be better? I'm looking to start using my C&R License and I love rifle shooting and these things are supposed to be shooters. This will be a range gun. I love shooting if you were going to buy one today which one of the options would you buy? Leaning towards a "sneak" but would like some recommendations. Thanks

January 4, 2016, 02:04 PM	#9
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,652	The hang tags are the tags the Arsenals hang on them supposedly after refurbishment. Or thats what I understand about them. Doesn't mean THAT particular rifle will be any better than any of the others. You really can't go wrong with ANY M39. With that said if you want a range gun, and if I were you I would go with the Late Date ("sneak"). The reason I say this is because these rifles never saw combat and were produced in the 60's and 70's. So the bore on them should be fantastic. And they should look GREAT as well. I will find out if my theory holds water when my Sneak gets here. They still haven't shipped it yet, with the holiday and all. __________________ "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

January 5, 2016, 02:21 AM	#10
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	Again both the late date no makers and the B barrels were made out of war time. Most Finns look pretty decent and have pretty good bores because as I said they tended to take fairly good care of their stuff (not that you couldn't get a limon). As a range toy any of them would work but like with most surplus dealings it's all really luck of the draw and you won't know exactly what you're going to get or how it will shoot until you get/shoot it so it just depends what you're interested in and what you want to spend. The late dates and B barrels are going to be rarer since less were produced but they also lack that war time history so it's all in what you're looking for. Last edited by Surp; January 5, 2016 at 02:35 AM.

January 5, 2016, 06:28 PM	#11
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,652	I got my Late Date No Maker M39 in today. All I can say is OMG, this thing is SO SWEET! Very Beautiful. It is Dated 1968. Excellent bore all the bluing is there, the stock has a dull finish it's not glossy like my Sako. No dings, nicks, or scratches really either. I'm impressed. She is still greasy, but here are a few pics.

January 6, 2016, 12:51 AM	#12
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	How are people already getting theirs and mine just shipped today? I ordered on the 29th like a two hours after they dropped... My luck I guess. Anyway GOOD looking rifle man! You will have to do an update to let us know how it groups. Last edited by Surp; January 6, 2016 at 12:58 AM.

January 6, 2016, 07:20 AM	#13
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,652	I ordered mine on the 29th as well. Not long after I got the email. I only live about 120 miles from Classic so it gets here fast.

January 8, 2016, 02:45 AM	#14
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	My rifling seems to be A-OK to me gyvel both grooves and lands.

January 8, 2016, 05:44 AM	#15
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,652	Great Pic and nice looking bore. I've never been able to take a decent bore pic.

January 14, 2016, 01:17 PM	#16
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,652	Well SURP, What did ya get, I've been waiting on your pics! __________________ "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

January 17, 2016, 12:49 AM	#17
Gaucho Gringo Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2007 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 366	What is a 1945 MN ? I have one that I inherited from my FIL and the finish looks different than my mid '30s one, looks almost parkerized rather than blued. It looks to be almost brand new. __________________ 357 Taurus Gaucho, 22 Heritage RR, 2-Pietta 1858 44 NMA Remingtons, Pietta, Euroarms & ASM 36 1851 Navies, 31 Uberti 1849, 12 ga H&R Topper, 16 Ga Western Field, 43 Spanish Remington Rolling Block, 44 ASM Colt Walker, High Point C9 9mm, Winchester 1906 22, Rossi 62 22 rifle, Uberti 1860, H&A & IJ 32 S&W BreakTop, 36 Euroarms 1858, 32 H&R 04, 22mag NAA SS BP revolver, .44 Rodgers & Spencer, IJ 38 S&W BreakTop, IJ 22 Sealed 8

January 20, 2016, 01:30 AM	#18
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	above are pics of the bore and here are some pics of everything. Another of the bore/crown. Bore and crown are in like new condition and nothing but a very small amount of dry cosmoline came out when I patched it. Can't say I have ever owned a firearm new or used that literally nothing (other than a little cos as said) came out of the bore before this. Blank tag. The bolt and bolt face are a bit rough definitely a lot rougher and harder to work then my 91/30. Stock is like new other then these two small repairs. it has a non-gloss finish like my M41b. The whole deal. Last edited by Surp; January 20, 2016 at 01:56 AM.

January 20, 2016, 01:42 AM	#19
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	Gaucho Gringo All I can really tell you from your description is that it's some type of MN with a 1945 dated receiver and that it might have the famous Russian dip bluing/black paint finish. Last edited by Surp; January 20, 2016 at 01:55 AM.

January 20, 2016, 06:57 AM	#20
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,652	Very nice lookin Rifle Surp with a superb bore. Your bore pic taking skills are excellent . The bolts on both of my M39's were very stiff until I completely disassembled them and gave the rifle (and disassembled bolt) a bath in Mineral spirits. There was a good bit of grease in the locking recesses. They are slicker than Owl snot now. Still haven't fired them yet.