300AAC pistol do anything better than AR rifle

[rickyrick]

This makes me want to blow the dust off of my 300aac pistol.
I fired my 5.56mm 10.5” a lot, and I really enjoyed it, but I stole its upper for another project.
The 300aac was assembled right as my interest in ARs was waning.
I did put a POF trigger in it but haven’t fired it since. All this has rekindled my interest in the little guy

The best use of the pistol braces that I’ve found is what I used it here for; to help prop it up. Makes it behave better in the gun cabinet as well

[MTT TL]

Heck, Coilion Noir was shooting a braced .300 pistol from his shoulder on his Youtube channel just the other day and he is both a lawyer and familiar with firearms law. Of course, that’s pretty much the opposite of the David Olofson defendant.

I'd love to that one run through the courts.

[agtman]

Risk much?

Try 25yrs in Leavenworth doing time with a frisky cellmate named 'Large Larry.'

And somehow a $200 tax stamp to make it a fully-legal SBR was, ah ... just waay too spendy?

[MTT TL]

Rather, I'll provide two examples of unenforced law from different perspectives:
1. In my city, it is illegal to not smile at another person in public.
I have never seen or heard of a person being cited or arrested for failing to comply. Why? Because it is symbolic. The law was not written and enacted to be enforced. It was written and enacted, tongue-in-cheek, as a show of community spirit.

Haven't seen the old "law is clearly unconstitutional and nobody enforces it" strawman in a while. Didn't even know it was still out there.

2. In my city, it is illegal to spit on a public sidewalk or walkway; inside a church, bank, or government building; and on the floor of a publicly accessible pool hall, bar, tavern, dance hall, event center, or similar facility.
I have never seen or heard of a person being cited or arrested for such. Why? Because the LEOs are too busy handling more important matters.

Illegal in my city too. It is a public health issue and just plain nasty. I HAVE seen people arrested for this. You might think that the police have better things to do. Police respond to what people complain about if it is illegal. If a business owner calls because someone is spitting all over the public sidewalk in front of their business and driving away customers the police will show up and try to remedy the situation. If remedy means arresting someone....

Now that I have pointlessly answered your strawmen (situations that are supposed to appear like the one under discussion but in fact are not) and you still have not shown this activity to be illegal, still can't help you.

[stagpanther]

The "regulations" for what constitutes an AR pistol are unambiguous and clear--the whole point is if you want to build an AR pistol and "sneak use" it as an SBR--don't do it (unless you are one of those "like living on the wild side" types). This thread is NOT about the legalities of pretending a pistol is a SBR! Configure it a pistol--use it a pistol--the end!

[wild cat mccane]

As the starter of the thread, it kinda is about SBRs. Not that I want to make an illegal SBR, but the brace is clearly trying to get around the law and I had questions about the legality of the brace with 300aac in mind.

That appears to bother some.

[Sharkbite]

I have a couple braces laying around. I use them on gune that are waiting on the SBR stamp to come back.

Build the gun as a pistol, with a brace. When the stamp comes back, install a real stock. In the year you wait for the stamp, you can at least shoot the pistol.

[stagpanther]

but the brace is clearly trying to get around the law and I had questions about the legality of the brace with 300aac in mind.

This is patently untrue. CAN the brace be used illegally? yes--but only if the user chooses to--just like any gun is capable of being used for murder, but it doesn't become a murder weapon until the user decides to use it for that.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

ot that I want to make an illegal SBR, but the brace is clearly trying to get around the law and I had questions about the legality of the brace with 300aac in mind.

1. How did you arrive at the conclusion a brace is trying to get around the law?

2. Why does it bother you if an unjust law goes unenforced?

[raimius]

If you set up a <16in barrelled firearm with a brace with the INTENT to use it as a stock (and leave enough unambiguous evidence of your intent to prove it in court), you could be prosecuted. If, on occasion, you use the brace in ways it was not originally designed to be used (against the shoulder), the ATF will have a fairly weak case, as they said "incidental" shouldering is NOT a redesign.

...so don't be stupid.

[TruthTellers]

Yes, it's a better choice for short range affairs over .223 from a 16 inch barrel. Good energy, more compact, great suppressed, but it doesn't beat what 7.62x39 can do, which is more powerful.

The .300 BLK pistol is a good choice if you want to be able to stretch things out to 75-100 yards, the AK pistol is better if the max distance is going to be something like 50 yards. Maybe with the right setup the AK pistol could reach out as far as .300 BLK could, but idk.

All I know is I'm not willing to spend the money on a .300 BLK pistol or ammo. You're money goes further with a .223 or 7.62x39. Unless you're being funded via taxpayers, don't bother with .300 BLK.

[TruthTellers]

Great, looks like we're back on the shouldering the pistol brace legality thing again. This is quickly becoming the new .45 vs 9mm debate.

I haven't heard of anyone being arrested for shouldering a pistol with a brace on it, being charged, and being sent to jail. Clearly if this was an issue, several youtubers would be doing hard time right now. MAC, Sootch, Mrgunsngear, and others are still free men.

It's clearly not a priority to the ATF. It probably will be used against a criminal who uses them during a crime after they've attempted to or have murdered someone and they're seen shooting it off the shoulder by witnesses.

I view the pistol brace as something that allows you to have a firearm that doesn't require registration, that you can have available at all times, isn't restricted in states that forbid NFA items, that shoots a lot like a rifle with a shorter than normal barrel, that you can shoot off the shoulder during a time when there's no authorities to enforce the law.

Use your imagination on the last one. If you feel an AR pistol with a barrel under 16 inches is the best tool for your defense, natural law and the right to life trumps a flawed, artificial law created by men. Just be smart about when you use it, how you use it, and who sees you using it.

The ATF's ruling didn't say it was illegal to shoot off the shoulder, just you couldn't make it simply to shoot it off the shoulder. I mostly use my Charger pistol and brace on a rest and use the brace as a better cheek weld for aiming... off a rest. When I shoot offhand standing, the way I shoot it is very similar to how I would shoot a rifle with a buttstock, but I brace the brace against my big, manly bicep, which is not my shoulder.

The nice thing about a .22 is there's no recoil, so it doesn't hurt or move much, so I can shoot a follow up shot pretty accurately.

That's why I went and spent hundreds more on a Ruger Charger instead of a 10/22. Firstly, the Charger is astonishingly accurate because of the short barrel imo. It's very light and also small. Great .22 for a time where a small, light, accurate .22 is needed and easy to carry in the field. Had I gone and put a 10 inch barrel on a 10/22, I would have been a horrible criminal with no regard for the law or human life and clearly someone who must be put away for 10 years.

But the FBI can send spies into presidential campaigns without evidence, warrants, or reasons for doing so and face no punishment.

Point is laws are selectively enforced all the time, it's called discretion. Federal agents also have discretion, the ATF's ruling basically told their agents "it's no big deal, but if you feel that someone is dangerous and is planning to commit a violent crime and you see him shooting a brace off the shoulder and that's the best thing you got to detain and arrest him, do it."

Until I see a 98 year old grandmother in a wheelchair being thrown in a paddy wagon after shouldering a pistol brace, then I'll start panicking and leave a gap between the end of the brace and shoulder at the range.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by MTT TL

You must be reading a different letter than the one with "sporadic and situational use" of the arm brace in it. Can't help you.

Sporadic-occurring at irregular intervals or only in a few places; scattered or isolated.

Basically infrequent use. I would say that so long as you shoot 100 rounds off with the brace not shouldered and 9 rounds with it shouldered, that's sporadic because it's less than 10 percent of the time. Of course there's no proof that you didn't just shoot a thousand rounds without it braced on the shoulder and just shot a couple off the shoulder.

Situational-relating to or dependent on a set of circumstances or state of affairs.

My interpretation is that if a braced pistol was your main defensive weapon and somebody was a threat to you in your home and you were in an alarmed state and reacted on instinct to shoulder the pistol to shoot more effectively to defend yourself, this meets the situational requirement because you were not in a right state of mind, which had you been, you would not have fired it shouldered.

Basically if you use it to defend your home/property, it's not illegal.

I would also say that this would apply to people with physical handicaps.

None of this wording is concrete enough to say Joe Schmo with an AR pistol shooting it off his shoulder is circumventing the SBR law. For all the ATF and LEO know, the one time he was seen shooting off his shoulder was the ONLY time he ever shot it off his shoulder, which qualifies under the sporadic use language.

[Sharkbite]

Good energy, more compact, great suppressed, but it doesn't beat what 7.62x39 can do, which is more powerful.

The difference between the x39 and a 300blk with similar bullet weights (123 VS 125) out of short barrels is pretty small. In fact with some loads and barrel lengths the 300blk will be FASTER then a x39 by a small margin.

[dean1818]

dl

[FrankenMauser]

I haven't heard of anyone being arrested for shouldering a pistol with a brace on it, being charged, and being sent to jail. Clearly if this was an issue, several youtubers would be doing hard time right now.

Potentially criminal acts are not a defense against a potential criminal act.

Allow me to point out how that argument looks from another perspective:
"Everyone that I know smokes marijuana and talks about it on Facebook. If it was a problem, they'd all be arrested by now..."

[Theohazard]

I don’t think that was his point. From what I can see, his point was that since nobody knows for sure if it’s illegal or not, and also since nobody in the entire US has ever been arrested or prosecuted for it, it’s probably not a big risk.

[stagpanther]

Hold up guys--I need a new roll of duct tape--my dead horse bat has splintered from too much use.

[Theohazard]

Touché, stagpanther!

[FrankenMauser]

I let it go.
I walked away.
And then someone grabbed my arm, pulled me back in, and poured over my head three buckets full of, "Even though most of us agree that it's probably illegal, it's perfectly fine ... because no one has gone to jail yet."


Criminals talk about whether or not the risk is worth the reward.
But that's not what TFL is about.
In regard to regulation and law, this forum is about staying legal. (Not, "Well... I think you can get away with it.")

Pistol braces do have some grey area, because of the ATF's choice of words. But I still see the issue as black and white, with a small gimme.

The problem is that the ATF painted a two-foot diameter 'mulligan' zone around the holes on an 18-hole golf course.
The people rejoiced!
"We can still 'cheat the system' as long as we're in the zone!"
Even while standing in the middle of an expansive, 18-hole course, all they could see was the mulligan zone.
Then they started calling mulligans from the fairway, because ... 'incidental', 'accidental', and sporadic mulligans are okay.
Then people started calling mulligans from the rough, because ... 'incidental', 'accidental', and sporadic mulligans are okay.
Then people started calling mulligans from the tee, because ... 'incidental', 'accidental', and sporadic mulligans are okay.
And, now, people are just calling mulligans from the clubhouse without even stepping foot on the course, because ... 'incidental', 'accidental', and sporadic mulligans are okay; and, well... no one has had their membership revoked yet...

[Sharkbite]

Well....that IS how i play Golf

[stagpanther]

who is mulligan?

[FrankenMauser]

For the record: I'm done. No more brace discussion in this thread.
As mentioned multiple times by other members... there's been too much already.

[rickyrick]

The ballistics part of the discussion was informative and interesting.

[Nanuk]

Risk much?

Try 25yrs in Leavenworth doing time with a frisky cellmate named 'Large Larry.'

And somehow a $200 tax stamp to make it a fully-legal SBR was, ah ... just waay too spendy?

Not all of us like/want braces and not all of us shoulder it. I use a cheek weld, no problems.