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Old October 22, 2019, 11:23 PM   #1
Marco Califo
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New Winchester Powder - WINCHESTER® STABALL™ 6.5

"WINCHESTER® STABALL™ 6.5
StaBALL 6.5 is the world’s first temperature-insensitive BALL® Powder, stable in extreme-hot or -cold conditions. It provides optimal loading density in cartridges appropriate for the burn speed, which is ideal for 6 Creedmoor, 6GT, 6.5 Creedmoor, 7MM-08, 270 Winchester and many more."

I noticed this new powder is now listed in the Hodgdon data center. Powder Valley lists it but is "out of stock".
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Old October 23, 2019, 01:58 AM   #2
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As i've stated on another forum..
Your not going to beat RL26 for velocity with 140gr plus weight bullets out of the Creed.

More than likely this new powder will be simular to Alliant's AR Comp. Yet another "temp stable" copper fouling reducer powder that has been out for what? 4-5 years now?

I would probably expect, like AR Comp it's decent for when you want to load a crap load of cartridges.
Will probably give decent (not great) velocities with decent (again not greeat) accuracy.
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Old October 23, 2019, 02:29 AM   #3
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Highest published velocities

The reason I noticed it was because it is 100 fps faster, in 7mm-08, than all other H, IMR, Win powders, across all bullet weights they include. I skipped 162 gr, and another, but from the lightest to 175 gr., they are indicating highest velocities in their published data. A cynical person might call that "advertising" or "inflated claims". But it does look like a excellent burn rate for 7mm-08. That also looked true for 6.5CM except the heaviest 2.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle.
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Old October 23, 2019, 09:07 AM   #4
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Interesting. The Western Powders FAQ claims you can't make a spherical powder that is temperature stabilized. I wonder what they did differently?
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Old October 23, 2019, 11:37 AM   #5
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Yeahhhh....
I'd take fastest velocities accross all weight ranges with a HUGE grain of salt!!
And believe me, i've shot thousands of rounds of 7mm-08.
RL17 was only powder to give noticable increase in velocity and that while sticking to 130-150 gr bullet weights.
And i have 2 shelves full of opened powder in search of.
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Old October 23, 2019, 02:20 PM   #6
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Grain of salt, eh?
Quote:
A cynical person might call that "advertising" or "inflated claims".
Is that not as salty as pork rinds?
I said the same about CFE223.
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Old October 23, 2019, 03:29 PM   #7
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By the time I need to do the next big powder order it should be available, I 'll have PV ro whoever toss in a pound assuming it gets good reviews
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Old October 23, 2019, 06:30 PM   #8
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Sounds like Win is trying to cash in on the 6.5 craze. They really don't have any current powders that would work in the med / slow burn category. Never heard of anyone experimenting with W760 or W780 in 6.5. Going to be tough to beat the loved and respected H4350. And most people know that W748 ball powder is NOT the best as far as temp stability. I'll sit this one out.....
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Old October 23, 2019, 09:15 PM   #9
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That's why it will be interesting to learn if they really figured out a way to do it. Someone will put it to the test at some point.
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Old October 23, 2019, 10:07 PM   #10
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Winchester is a brand name. I doubt they employ anyone developing powder. I believe powder makers like St Marks, ADI, Lovex, Vv, etc. come up with these new powders, and then shop them to the Powder labels (Alliant. Hodgdon, IMR, Win, Accurate, Ramshot). And if you look at the labels, they come from all over: Canada, Australia, Switzerland, Belgium, Sweden. So I believe the research and development happens at the companies that actually make the powders.
I'll bet all my Federal 223 brass (over 1,000 pieces, you pay shipping), that StaBall is a St. Marks product.
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Old October 24, 2019, 01:49 AM   #11
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I'm not about to take that bet!

Don't forget, Win & IMR are under the Hodgdon banner.
Accurate & Ramshot are under Western Powder's.
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Old October 24, 2019, 03:04 PM   #12
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Marco is right. St. Marks will have developed this one. They develop long lists of powders for military use and the commercial powder distributors and ammunition makers look at the new ones and get samples and make a call as to whether they want to order a canister grade version to add to their powder line or a bulk grade version for manufacturing loaded ammunition. And since Hodgdon is the Winchester powder distributor now, I'm not clear if Winchester made the recommendation after using a bulk version in their loaded ammunition or if they had nothing to do with it and Hodgdon just made the call on their own. I just don't know.
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Old October 26, 2019, 12:09 PM   #13
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It is in stock at Powder Valley now.
$23.85 for 1 lb. 254 in stock
$174.50 for 8 lbs.
https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/prod...-staball-6-5-1
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Old October 27, 2019, 06:59 PM   #14
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I have yet to see the new powders available locally in 8 lb.

I will stick with the old stuff as I swore to never again buy in anything less than 5 or 8 lbs jugs.
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Old October 28, 2019, 09:47 AM   #15
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Not saying this is the case, but.... I can't help but wonder if this powder could be used in the "New" 6.8 cal round.

Or at the very least the Technology.

The data is impressive for the velocity gains. And I couldn't find the new "STABALL 6.5" on the burn rate chart.

All of this is a stretch... but...just a few thoughts ( crazy or not , Lol )

And Especially since Winc. most likely did not develop the Staball 65.

It takes a lot of money to develop such a sophisticated ball powder.

Winc. just got the LC contract.

Again, not saying it is. Just throwing that thought out there.

Last edited by bfoosh006; October 28, 2019 at 09:53 AM.
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Old October 28, 2019, 10:01 AM   #16
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Hodgdon seems to be getting into more niche powders. Take CFE BLK for the 300 BlackOut for example.

Now there is IMR Red, Green and Blue. Wonder whose came up with that original idea?

One thing i do notice is that Quickload is giving data for the Hodgdon line earlier than Alliant's. Alliant's Powerr Pro series has been out for at least a year longer than IMR "Extreme" powder series, but still not on Quickload.

So who is volunteering to buy some of this new powder and compare it's velocities vs RL26?
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Old October 28, 2019, 03:02 PM   #17
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I'm not so enamored by the temp stability or copper cleaning capability (although those qualities are nice), but by the fact it's a ball powder that will hopefully meter from my RCBS Uniflow powder measure better than the H-4350 I currently use for my 6.5CM. H-4350 is a great powder for 6.5CM, but not quick and consistent when metering it. I use TAC in my .223 reloads, and it meters beautifully. I will certainly try a pound when it gets to my local powder monger
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Old November 3, 2019, 12:26 AM   #18
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Quote:
niche powders
The name and label, is all about marketing. "New Thing", connect with a market swell.

But the actual product, the smokeless powder, is all about burn rate, pressure curves, and practical applications.

This particular powder's best application is more like 7mm-08, where it performs better than 6.5 CR. If I like what it will do per published data, I will buy some. But I have no plan to own any 6.5.
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Old November 3, 2019, 02:52 PM   #19
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I note that SOCOM was slated to start issuing 6.5 Creedmoor sniping systems this year as they found their snipers could cut group size at 1000 yards with them significantly as compared to the 7.62 sniper systems. I'll bet that's what the development of this powder was really aimed at originally.
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Old November 3, 2019, 07:38 PM   #20
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So which 6.5 mm chambering did they go with?
[Noted UN post above says 6.5 CM. That does not make sense to me.]
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Old November 3, 2019, 08:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
So which 6.5 mm clambering did they go with?
when was the last time you heard of a group of bureaucrats making the right choice ?

Caliber Choice And What The U.S. Army Got Wrong…Again
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Old November 3, 2019, 08:41 PM   #22
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Last I heard it was 300 magnum for long range sniper rifles.
USMC was using 50 BMG rifles; doubt they gave them back.
The 260 would have been logical. 308 necked to 6.5. LC was already making the brass.
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Old November 6, 2019, 05:25 PM   #23
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It isn't simply a matter of comparing ballistics on paper. They were looking for a new intermediate caliber for machine guns, assault rifles and sniper rifles. The snipers training with the 6.5 CM doubled their hit probability at 1000 meters over the 7.62 sniper rifles. They also did a side-by-side with the 260 Rem and got essentially no measurable difference in practice and concluded the 6.5 CM gave them more room to fiddle with new bullet designs and to do other tweakings.
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Old November 6, 2019, 05:50 PM   #24
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Don't know how scientific this is so take with a grain of salt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcy8...xWQJUFlqWImzuI
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Old November 7, 2019, 05:10 AM   #25
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I have lots of Creedmoor spawn--as well as most of the 308 spawn. I also have lots of RL26--I'll get some of this stuff soon just for comparison grins, in general I don't use Winchester powders much except for 231 and 296. I have to admit the name is a cluster bucket from the marketing point of view IMO.
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