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Old October 14, 2019, 10:09 PM   #1
Roland Thunder
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AA#2 Substitute

I currently use Accurate Arms #2 powder for 9mm. I really like the way it meters. The only problem is I seem to get unburnt particles left in the slide and frame of my gun, I have heard of others having this issue also. Can someone suggest a substitute for AA#2 that is fine like AA#2 and meters well like AA#2 and is a fast burning powder?
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Old October 14, 2019, 10:20 PM   #2
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Win 231/ HP-38 is ideal for 9mm loads- especially 115-125 gr loads.
Its one of the cleanest burning powders when loaded near factory velocity, and meters very well.

you can also use and oldie but a goodie- Bullseye works very well, but leaves a bit of residue behind.
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Old October 14, 2019, 10:39 PM   #3
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I started using VV N340 several years ago, I haven't had a problem with any form of powder fouling. It is not a ball powder, but the granules are very small so it does meter nicely. I noticed when we were shooting after sundown that it also has no flash in a 4" barreled 9mm.
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Old October 14, 2019, 10:49 PM   #4
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In the 9mm I have been using the AA#2, HP-38, AA#5 and Ramshot Silhouette. All meter very well and burned clean for me using 115 and 124gr plated bullets.

I gave up using the #5 as it uses the greatest amount of powder of the group and has a great amount of overlap with the HP-38 and the Ramshot.

I have also been using the AA#2, HP-38 and Ramshot in the 380's with very good results.
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Old October 15, 2019, 08:18 AM   #5
Roland Thunder
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I love AA#2. It's my favorite 9mm powder but it leaves unburned granules in side my gun
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Old October 15, 2019, 09:53 AM   #6
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I don't remember using #2 in 9mm, did use it in 45 ACP. Try #5 and Winchester Autocomp. Auto meters well in my Dillon SDB and just feels good. Kind of hard to describe but loved it the first time I tried it.
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Old October 15, 2019, 10:14 AM   #7
Jim Watson
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Why is this an "issue?" Are you getting so much unburnt powder that it is interfering with function? Are you worried that it will catch fire? Are you trying for a record number of shots without cleaning? Are you loading at the lightest charge that will cycle the action?
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Old October 15, 2019, 10:40 AM   #8
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My thinking goes along with Mr. Watson. But I "discovered" long ago when working with Unique that light loads of most powders leave some "residue" (ash, soot, unburned kernels, etc.). When I go shooting I take rags with me to wipe my guns and hands if necessary and I can't remember any of my guns that stopped functioning from shooting "dirty" powder...
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Old October 15, 2019, 10:41 AM   #9
Roland Thunder
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Quote:
Why is this an "issue?" Are you getting so much unburnt powder that it is interfering with function? Are you worried that it will catch fire? Are you trying for a record number of shots without cleaning? Are you loading at the lightest charge that will cycle the action?
it just makes getting the gun clean more tedious. yes, i did consider the possibility of fire. I do load the rounds rather light because it is being used in competition.
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Old October 15, 2019, 05:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland Thunder View Post
it just makes getting the gun clean more tedious. yes, i did consider the possibility of fire. I do load the rounds rather light because it is being used in competition.
Try loading just a little heavier . Once you reach the pressure level AA #2 requires it will burn clean . It meters so well it is a shame to give up on it .

For light clean burning loads ... the king is still Bullseye , it's a flake powder but clean burning .
700X and Red Dot are two other fast burners good for light loads in the 9mm Luger , but neither will flow through a meter like AA #2.
Gary
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Old October 15, 2019, 08:32 PM   #11
Roland Thunder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle
Try loading just a little heavier . Once you reach the pressure level AA #2 requires it will burn clean . It meters so well it is a shame to give up on it .

For light clean burning loads ... the king is still Bullseye , it's a flake powder but clean burning .
700X and Red Dot are two other fast burners good for light loads in the 9mm Luger , but neither will flow through a meter like AA #2.
Gary
I agree, it's a shame to give up on it, I'll probably just make the loads a little stouter. I do have some Bullseye. I use it mostly for 45acp but I may try it for 9mm once the AA#2 is used up
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Old October 16, 2019, 05:57 AM   #12
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Try a test group with magnum primers. That has been used to clean up other powders that leave unburned granules.
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Old October 16, 2019, 06:47 AM   #13
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Titegroup works great in my 9mm's and meters well. It's low volume so just be double sure you don't drop a double charge. The only other drawback is that it does seem to run hot, which can be problematic if shooting lead,but accuracy is good.
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Old October 16, 2019, 08:25 AM   #14
Jim Watson
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When I decided I had had enough fun with .45 ACP Major, hardball, and SD, I started reducing the load. When it got comfortable, my usual HP38 had gotten "dirty." Not something I normally care about, but more important, it had gotten erratic with large velocity EV and SD.

So I changed to Bullseye for light loads with more consistent velocity. People call it dirty, too; but as my FLG said, its fouling is light and sooty, not gritty like Ball powder residue.
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Old October 16, 2019, 08:55 AM   #15
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Clays and N310 are the cleanest powders I've used for light 45 auto loads.
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Old October 16, 2019, 10:21 AM   #16
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How did this go from a discussion on AA#2 and the 9mm to powders for a 45acp?
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Old October 16, 2019, 10:42 AM   #17
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When an old timer mis-reads the first post.
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Old October 16, 2019, 10:46 AM   #18
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As I read the OP it started out as
Quote:
The only problem is I seem to get unburnt particles left in the slide and frame of my gun,
or "dirty" AA #2 and the thread grew to include the "Clean/Dirty" discussion...

A few years ago when the "clean/dirty" discussion came up (again) I would give my opinion; "I don't wear my white tux or my beige kid skin gloves when shooting and every "improved" range I shot at had a restroom with soap and water. I occasionally shot my semi-autos, with my "dirty" powders, as much as 300 rounds per session (I know some will say that they are just getting warmed up with 300 rounds of 45 ACP). My Rugers, RIA, FMK, never faltered/failed to function from being "dirty". I carries some shop towels in my kit to wipe down the outside of mt guns, and when I shoot at an "unimproved" range I take water, paper towels and rags to get some of the GSR off my hands. I clean my guns every time I shoot them, often the same day, or the next and very rarely longer than 2 days." But I won't waste anyone's time with all that...
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Old October 16, 2019, 11:11 AM   #19
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Nothing wrong with wanting a cleaner shooting powder.
I don't mind soot, but I hate the unburned powder flakes. Unburned HS-6 choked my revolver.
Too bad they pulled the 9mm data for WST.
Bulky, clean shooting and meters great.
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Old October 16, 2019, 03:15 PM   #20
Jim Watson
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HS6 is the only powder I have ever had to coke up a 9mm to the point of malfunction in a single match or practice. It, like most, will probably clean up at maximum but I did not want a maximum load, just power factor.

When the HK P7 gas delay "squeeze cocker" first came out, NRA tried reloads with Bullseye in it, no go, but Unique was fine. I know W231 was good in mine.
Accurate Arms, before Western bought them up, put a disclaimer in their manual that AA2 might not function "some European 9mms."
C.E. Harris wrote that most European 9mm was loaded with 5-7 grains of ball process powder and that faster powders as common in US reloading might not do well.
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Old October 16, 2019, 03:28 PM   #21
gwpercle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Gun View Post
Try a test group with magnum primers. That has been used to clean up other powders that leave unburned granules.
This just might be the answer...the little extra oomph of the magnum primer should do the trick .
Good idea Real Gun !
Gary
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Old October 18, 2019, 05:19 PM   #22
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If you are going to use magnum primers use CCI or Federal magnum primers for maximum effect.
They are the only primer company that I know of that actually uses more primer compound in their magnum primers. So many of the others just use a thicker primer cup to stop burn through from the hot slower burning powders.
I've not seen documentation on Federal primers to this but I have seen Chrony results suggesting it.

I'm probably going to get flamed for saying this, but I have seen documentation over the years that Winchester, Remington and some of the foreign primer companies like Wolf and others do this, just thicken the cup material.
Remington 5 1/2 primers are supposed to be their "magnum duty" primers but I always considered them to be their standard primers because of all their restrictions on their 1 1/2 primers that is in the fine print.

It is documented that CCI does use more primer compound in there magnum primers than they do in there standard primers. No one else will fess up.

Now I don't know if the others change the chemistry in their priming compound for their magnum primers but CCI magnum primers are a sure thing.

Just saying.
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Old October 20, 2019, 03:01 AM   #23
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I have used #2, #5 and #7 in 9mm, and the #7 worked the best for me. However, recently began using Bullseye due to a donation thereof, and that stuff is great.
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Old October 20, 2019, 08:34 AM   #24
zeke
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Am using hp-38 for my 9mm target loads, which get about 1150 fps with 115 jrn. Only use scale to set the load and occasional check (like every 500 rounds).
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Old October 20, 2019, 01:24 PM   #25
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I don't load a lot of 9mm, but I do have a lot of experience with a good number of fast propellants: Bullseye, Red Dot, W231/HP38, AA#2, N-310, Nitro 100, and probably a few others.

Of those, N-310 is the cleanest. But it's wicked fast and needs to be used with some caution. Our OP didn't mention what bullet weight he's running. 115's would be a good choice here; as pressures could climb quickly with anything heavier. Same rules apply for the super fast Nitro 100 too. But it doesn't run quite as clean. I have had great luck with both in 38 Special and 45ACP lead target pooper-poppers. Consistent.

My experience with AA#2 is that it does get "grainy" when you turn it down, but it's not sooty. Oddly, it still runs consistent when it's leaving behind its low-pressure chartreuse granules. But unlike our OP, it doesn't bother me.

Bullseye leaves behind a filmy residue no matter how its loaded. W231/HP-38 does too - but only about half as much.

Our OP mentioned something metering like AA#2. Nothing meters better than AA#2. But many meter better than good enough - including all that I mentioned above.

So all-in-all, my answer to his question is "N-310."
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