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Old October 21, 2019, 06:05 PM   #1
hounddawg
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Tumbling soap ?

In my Frankford wet tumbler I have been happy with the results just using some form of citric acid concentrate and a squirt of whatever liquid soap is handy. However I ran across this stuff that jewelers use, it would be more than the citric cost wise but just curious if anyone here ever tried it. Supposed to reduce oxidation

910 Tumbling Soap

Raytech Tool Tumbling Soap

Also found some old references to cleaning cases using TSP. I have a bucket of really nasty range brass a friend gave me a couple of weeks ago. I might give them a good soak in TSP before sorting
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Old October 21, 2019, 08:23 PM   #2
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No wonder jewelry is so expensive.

I looked at their tumblers at that price and the reviews weren't anything to smile about.

Bet you came to the same conclusion I did.
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Old October 21, 2019, 09:14 PM   #3
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As I said in my OP I am happy with the results I and getting using the citric and the dish detergent. I stumbled across the stuff looking for something else. You are right. They are real proud of the vibratory tumblers, some of those suckers are built to hold 100 pounds of media. The Thumblers are normal priced it seems so I am guessing that the vibratory are a bit heavier built than the average reloading tumbler.

I am thinking of getting one or more of these though. Currently I use a cat litter pan from Big Lots as a $5 seperator. Works well enough I suppose but I think I could rig up a better rinse and separate system using a 5 Gal bucket, a couple of these and a few PVC fittings. I like to tinker

https://contenti.com/metal-screen-separating-screens

and if I do I might get them to toss in a pound of that tumbling soap with the screens just to try it
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Old October 21, 2019, 09:18 PM   #4
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I just use a squirt Dawn dishwashing soap and a shake of Lemi Shine(citric acid) then set the timer to 3 hours. That FA tumbler does a great job.
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Old October 22, 2019, 06:45 AM   #5
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Here's what I use to separate the pins after wet tumbling, it works very well IMO, but it eliminates the "tinkering" for this project.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016958652?pid=271904
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Old October 22, 2019, 10:43 AM   #6
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Just how shiny does one need/want their brass? I have seen brass, wet tumbled with a few drops of Dawn and a sprinkle of citric acid and they were mirror bright and much, much shinier than new factory brass...

OOPS! Didn't mean to sound "anti-glossy" brass. I've worked with metals most of my life and metal, especially brass will only get so shiny, and that's by buffing. Basic wet tumbling like most do for cartridge cases gets the brass about as clean and shiny as possible...
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Old October 22, 2019, 01:26 PM   #7
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You don't need any kind of soap or acid to clean brass. The tumbler will do it all by itself. Even on "nasty range brass" that you have no idea what has been done to it or how many times it was done.
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Old October 22, 2019, 02:27 PM   #8
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Use dish soap, Lemishine and NO SS pins. Don't even use a powered tumbler, just a square plastic jar that peanuts come in. I hand shake them, turn them and let them soak. After about 1/2hr shaking and an hour soaking they come out just fine.
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Old October 22, 2019, 04:42 PM   #9
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Same here Kmw1954 - except instead of dish soap I used auto car wash (the kind that contains wax as that tends to keep brass from re-tarnishing) and to acidify the water I use a shot of white vinegar instead of the Lemishine. All-in-all, the same process. Never saw the need to upgrade to SS pins.

I do, however, use a cheap tumbler with walnut media after resizing just for a little while to remove sizing lube.
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Old October 22, 2019, 05:01 PM   #10
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I use pure citric acid ( how much citric acid is actually in Lemishine anyway ?) and any dishwasher liquid. Works well.
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Old October 22, 2019, 05:58 PM   #11
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I've had good results with liquid Tide and lemi-shine. No pins.
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Old October 22, 2019, 09:37 PM   #12
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What I like about the rotary tumblers is that they can be used in many ways, wet with or without pins or dry. At the moment I have 50 cases in my Franklin getting tumbled in lizard litter to get the sizing lube off
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Old October 23, 2019, 07:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
At the moment I have 50 cases in my Franklin getting tumbled in lizard litter to get the sizing lube off
I have never thought to do that... What is the downside to having a bit of lube on the cases before loading with powder / seating?

Thanks! ....... Jim
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Old October 23, 2019, 08:06 AM   #14
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At the moment I have 50 cases in my Franklin getting tumbled in lizard litter to get the sizing lube off
I have never thought to do that... What is the downside to having a bit of lube on the cases before loading with powder / seating?
It depends only sizing lube you've used and how much of it is on the cases (and inside them too). It can be "sticky" and attract dirt for one thing. Lots of people leave it on or just give the case a quick wipe with a towel. I use the lizzard litter (crushed walnut) with a torn-up used dryer sheet to collect the dirty dust because it is just so easy to give them a quick tumble.
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Old October 23, 2019, 09:01 AM   #15
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Hounddawg,

I haven't tried either of the products you linked to. It looks to me like the Raytech product is real soap. Real soap is both slippery and alkaline (acid neutralizing) and I expect that lubrication helps brightness by reducing the friction of rubbing against other cases. Tumbling in oil, if it were economical, might do the same thing.

I can tell you that Hornady One-shot ultrasonic case cleaner uses diethanolamine as an antioxidant and surfactant. That solution, diluted to use-once throw-away working strength, has 1 ounce of citric acid and 7 grains of diethanolamine per gallon.
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Old October 23, 2019, 09:14 AM   #16
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I wet tumble in a Thumler high speed with pins. Recipe is simple - per batch, 1 ounce of auto wash and wax and 1/4 TSP lemi-shine. This will deliver a jewelry like shine.

But, I do shoot quite a bit, and simply don't need this degree of brass finish. So, most of the time, I just give the brass a bath in hot water, lemi-shine and detergent.

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Old October 23, 2019, 09:39 AM   #17
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@Uncle Nick - interesting ...my something new learned for the day

@btmj - what Doyle said. A quick tumble in a old towel would probably get it off but a quick dry tumble is pretty quick and the kitty litter pan does a great job of separating the cases for less than 5 bucks. I found one similar to this one at Big Lots for about than 5 bucks

https://www.chewy.com/as-seen-on-tv-...Litter%20Boxes


but then you have to get rid of dirty water while retaining the pins

I would just like a 2 stage separator for wet tumbling. One the would catch the cases but allow the pins to fall through and a second to catch the pins but allow the water. A siphon system would allow for easier rinsing also
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Old October 23, 2019, 11:28 AM   #18
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I'm a K.I.S.S. advocate and didn't care for the "extra" when wet tumbling. Actually I reloaded for 12 years before I got a tumbler, and still on occasion when I'm not doing a lot I just use soap, water and citric acid, in the square Beer Nut containers...
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Old October 28, 2019, 01:06 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTMJ
I have never thought to do that... What is the downside to having a bit of lube on the cases before loading with powder / seating?
Lube on cases can contaminate the primer or powder and render it inert or seriously under perform.

Lube on cases fired in firearm increases 'bolt thrust' or the force of the cartridge against the bolt face. Accelerates wear and tear on firearm.
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Old Yesterday, 10:15 AM   #20
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I clean like Bayou. Get a lot of cleaning with the auto wash and wax. Wal mart brand and lei shine. I use dryer right away so mine stays shiny. I don’t want to clean primer pockets.
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