Loose Rounds, Federal .38spl Nyclad.

5pins · December 28, 2017, 06:43 PM

In the past, the decision on what ammo to carry was often based on marking hype, magazine articles, or gun store experts. Maybe some people still do. Unfortunately, I’m finding out that some of the advice I received years ago wasn’t so great. Today, the info available to us is much better allowing people to make better choices for their needs.

I recently found a 125gr .38spl +P Nyclad when I was rummaging around in my box of odds and ends ammo. I thought this would be the perfect round following the 9mm Nyclad I shot last week. I was hoping this one would do better but I really didn’t think it would. Turns out I was right.
One round into two 16 inch blocks of Clear Ballistics gel fired from a S&W model 442 Air Weight with a 1 7/8’s barrel. The Bullet hit with a velocity of 844fps and penetrated 17 inches. It stopped with the base forward and did not expand. You may notice the leading edge of the bullet looks like it started to expand but what you’re seeing is the nylon coating separating from the lead.
Another eye-opening and disappointing outcome.

Viper225 · December 29, 2017, 09:47 PM

I always thought they would do much better than that.

Bob R

Model12Win · December 31, 2017, 05:22 PM

Aren't these supposed to be a tops load?

Dufus · December 31, 2017, 05:36 PM

I learned a long time ago: don't count on any hollow point bullet fired from a handgun to expand. Most times it just doesn't happen.

If it does, then consider it an exception and a bonus.

jfruser · January 10, 2018, 04:29 PM

I often wonder if my wife is smarter than I am for carrying Fed Gold Match .38spl 148gr HBWC in her snubby. I carry either Remington's FBI load (+P 158gr LSWCHP) or a spunkier version from Underwood or Buffalo Bore.

Half the tests show the Rem FBI load (best of the FBI loads: Fed, Win, Rem) not expanding from a snubby. And the peppier UW/BB loads have beau coup recoil.

Model12Win · January 12, 2018, 02:49 AM

Well at the end of the day, James Bond carried a .25.

A .38'll do.

Emerson Biggies · January 13, 2018, 07:15 PM

I've found HP lead and plated HP's seldom expand unless they are going about 1200 fps or faster. Typically 38's don't get pushed that fast. Light 357's would work if pushed to that speed.

DMK · January 13, 2018, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Well at the end of the day, James Bond carried a .25.
A .38'll do.

The bad guys were guaranteed to drop when Bond shot them. It was in the script.

TruthTellers · January 14, 2018, 03:19 AM

Yeah, old technology not performing. I thought they would have done better than not expanding, but nope.

Lucky Gunner's tests of .38 and .357 opened my eyes to the difficulties of .38 Special hollow points out of snub barrels. Most either fail to expand due to the low velocity or fail to penetrate.

The premium Winchester loads did fine, Remington Golden Saber did okay, but I liked Hornady Critical Defense +P the most. While not every shot may not have hit the 12 inch FBI minimums consistently, they always came very close, close enough to call them a success from a 2 inch barrel.

That's for hollow points though, I still think that from a snub revolver, the best defense ammo is that which is designed to do damage from not expanding.

That leaves two loads that I know of and it's either a moderately hot hardcast wadcutter or those bullets with flutes in the nose that are supposed to use the rotation of the bullet to damage tissue.

I don't think one can go wrong with either, but lately I've been leaning towards the lightweight Polycase ammunition because the velocities are so high that they usually cause the bullet to tumble and do more damage than wadcutters or hollow points and because they also have slightly lower recoil.

Also because I'm of the opinion that the "range" ammo Polycase that doesn't have the flutes will do the exact same thing the fluted ammo does, which is tumble a few inches into the body and render the flutes useless. So, if the fluted defense bullets don't do anything because the bullet is tumbling, why pay double the price for them?

kraigwy · January 14, 2018, 08:50 AM

Speer JHP 38+Ps vs. Winchester 38 (standard) 158 Gr LSWC fired into a wet phone book. Both fired from a Smith 642

Not much difference in penatration.

Just Saying

shurshot · January 16, 2018, 09:11 PM

Looks like that old 158 LSWC is a winner! Very interesting results. I would have bet money on the Speer.

JERRYS. · January 16, 2018, 09:33 PM

I like the Remington 158gr. +p LHP. they've expanded in the water jug testing I've done from my 2" model 64 and my 642; the latter isn't fun.

the Remington load must use a softer lead than Winchester and Federal.

seeker_two · January 17, 2018, 04:20 PM

Soft lead is the way to go in a snub. If you can't get expansion, penetration and deformation will suffice.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Model12Win · January 17, 2018, 06:43 PM

I carry Gold Dot's SHORT BARREL SPEERS in my snub.

USSR · January 18, 2018, 11:27 AM

Don't know why you guys are having problems getting hollowpoints to expand when fired out of snubbies. Middle 158gr bullet came out of my 2.5" snubbie at a leisurely 840fps.

Don

Model12Win · January 18, 2018, 01:11 PM

Water tests are a horrible medium for expansion results in flesh.

USSR · January 18, 2018, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Water tests are a horrible medium for expansion results in flesh.

Agreed. But your assumption is dead wrong.

Don

Northof50 · January 19, 2018, 12:26 PM

5pins - you have to admit though...they look cool. I was given a box by a student.

December 28, 2017, 06:43 PM	#1
5pins Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 1998 Location: WV Posts: 252	Loose Rounds, Federal .38spl Nyclad. In the past, the decision on what ammo to carry was often based on marking hype, magazine articles, or gun store experts. Maybe some people still do. Unfortunately, I’m finding out that some of the advice I received years ago wasn’t so great. Today, the info available to us is much better allowing people to make better choices for their needs. I recently found a 125gr .38spl +P Nyclad when I was rummaging around in my box of odds and ends ammo. I thought this would be the perfect round following the 9mm Nyclad I shot last week. I was hoping this one would do better but I really didn’t think it would. Turns out I was right. One round into two 16 inch blocks of Clear Ballistics gel fired from a S&W model 442 Air Weight with a 1 7/8’s barrel. The Bullet hit with a velocity of 844fps and penetrated 17 inches. It stopped with the base forward and did not expand. You may notice the leading edge of the bullet looks like it started to expand but what you’re seeing is the nylon coating separating from the lead. Another eye-opening and disappointing outcome. __________________ www.general-cartridge.com

January 10, 2018, 04:29 PM	#5
jfruser Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 350	I often wonder if my wife is smarter than I am for carrying Fed Gold Match .38spl 148gr HBWC in her snubby. I carry either Remington's FBI load (+P 158gr LSWCHP) or a spunkier version from Underwood or Buffalo Bore. Half the tests show the Rem FBI load (best of the FBI loads: Fed, Win, Rem) not expanding from a snubby. And the peppier UW/BB loads have beau coup recoil. __________________ Regards, jfruser "Books and bullets have their own destinies."----Bob Ross

January 13, 2018, 07:15 PM	#7
Emerson Biggies Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2014 Posts: 163	I've found HP lead and plated HP's seldom expand unless they are going about 1200 fps or faster. Typically 38's don't get pushed that fast. Light 357's would work if pushed to that speed. __________________ Keep your guns clean.... the kids may put them in their mouths!

January 14, 2018, 03:19 AM	#9
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,883	Yeah, old technology not performing. I thought they would have done better than not expanding, but nope. Lucky Gunner's tests of .38 and .357 opened my eyes to the difficulties of .38 Special hollow points out of snub barrels. Most either fail to expand due to the low velocity or fail to penetrate. The premium Winchester loads did fine, Remington Golden Saber did okay, but I liked Hornady Critical Defense +P the most. While not every shot may not have hit the 12 inch FBI minimums consistently, they always came very close, close enough to call them a success from a 2 inch barrel. That's for hollow points though, I still think that from a snub revolver, the best defense ammo is that which is designed to do damage from not expanding. That leaves two loads that I know of and it's either a moderately hot hardcast wadcutter or those bullets with flutes in the nose that are supposed to use the rotation of the bullet to damage tissue. I don't think one can go wrong with either, but lately I've been leaning towards the lightweight Polycase ammunition because the velocities are so high that they usually cause the bullet to tumble and do more damage than wadcutters or hollow points and because they also have slightly lower recoil. Also because I'm of the opinion that the "range" ammo Polycase that doesn't have the flutes will do the exact same thing the fluted ammo does, which is tumble a few inches into the body and render the flutes useless. So, if the fluted defense bullets don't do anything because the bullet is tumbling, why pay double the price for them? __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out." Last edited by TruthTellers; January 14, 2018 at 03:34 AM. Reason: Forgot to mention stuff

January 14, 2018, 08:50 AM	#10
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Speer JHP 38+Ps vs. Winchester 38 (standard) 158 Gr LSWC fired into a wet phone book. Both fired from a Smith 642 Not much difference in penatration. Just Saying __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

December 29, 2017, 09:47 PM	#2
Viper225 Senior Member Join Date: September 20, 2009 Location: SC Missouri Posts: 663	I always thought they would do much better than that. Bob R

December 31, 2017, 05:22 PM	#3
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Aren't these supposed to be a tops load?

December 31, 2017, 05:36 PM	#4
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	I learned a long time ago: don't count on any hollow point bullet fired from a handgun to expand. Most times it just doesn't happen. If it does, then consider it an exception and a bonus.

January 12, 2018, 02:49 AM	#6
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Well at the end of the day, James Bond carried a .25. A .38'll do.

January 16, 2018, 09:11 PM	#11
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,819	Looks like that old 158 LSWC is a winner! Very interesting results. I would have bet money on the Speer.

January 16, 2018, 09:33 PM	#12
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,968	I like the Remington 158gr. +p LHP. they've expanded in the water jug testing I've done from my 2" model 64 and my 642; the latter isn't fun. the Remington load must use a softer lead than Winchester and Federal.

January 17, 2018, 04:20 PM	#13
seeker_two Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2002 Location: Deep in the Heart of the Lone Star State (TX) Posts: 2,169	Soft lead is the way to go in a snub. If you can't get expansion, penetration and deformation will suffice. Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

January 17, 2018, 06:43 PM	#14
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	I carry Gold Dot's SHORT BARREL SPEERS in my snub.

January 18, 2018, 11:27 AM	#15
USSR Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2017 Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY Posts: 1,442	Don't know why you guys are having problems getting hollowpoints to expand when fired out of snubbies. Middle 158gr bullet came out of my 2.5" snubbie at a leisurely 840fps. Don __________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

January 18, 2018, 01:11 PM	#16
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Water tests are a horrible medium for expansion results in flesh.

January 19, 2018, 12:26 PM	#18
Northof50 Junior member Join Date: January 5, 2018 Location: Northeast USA Posts: 232	5pins - you have to admit though...they look cool. I was given a box by a student.