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June 13, 2014, 11:43 AM | #26 | ||
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From http://spectator.org/articles/59521/...mass-shootings
Quote:
Here's another. From CNN in 2012: Quote:
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June 23, 2014, 07:55 AM | #27 |
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And here's one from Dr. John Lott this week. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/...cross-america/
although it focuses on school shootings, really interesting and relevant part is the discussion about gang related events versus the mass, public, random events that we have been discussing. pax |
June 24, 2014, 06:04 PM | #28 | |
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Quote:
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June 24, 2014, 08:39 PM | #29 |
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I would have to disagree. One position in criminology, public health, psychology, sociology is that exposure to guns primes aggressive thoughts and ideation. That leads to shooting behavior. So in that vein - the gun is evil and did cause the event. The evidence however is mixed. It seems not to be a factor with the vast majority of the population but might occur with those with underlying mental illnesses driving them to violent behavior.
BTW, we don't do liberal vs. conservative. Plenty of folks on both sides who like or dislike the RKBA. So we are gun or antigun in our discussions.
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June 25, 2014, 11:13 AM | #30 |
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Glenn, You are right that whether or not one is conservative or liberal isn't truly indicative of attitudes towards guns, but to many pro gunners the appear to be same from what I have noticed here and elsewhere. Also, as you say, only some social scientists believe that exposure to evil guns proximately causes a homicidal predisposition. To pigeonhole people in antigun and pro gun to me seems to simplistic, although there are those that think you either have to ban all guns or have a god given right to carry fully automatic weapons.
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June 25, 2014, 12:10 PM | #31 |
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The problem is trying to make a continuum into a dichotomy. Pro or antigun aren't absolute 0,1 categories. Look at the OC debate for instance.
However, the categorization is somewhat useful. I was trying to steer us away from the use of liberal and conservative as being perfectly predictive of gun attitudes. Thus when we get someone ranting about liberals or using worse terms - it isn't useful. That's all I was attempting to do. I've seen an OC advocate of AR weapons in Starbucks denouncing very strong RKBA advocates as commie Fudds. Oh, well.
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June 25, 2014, 02:30 PM | #32 |
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I see what you mean and point well taken.
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June 25, 2014, 10:04 PM | #33 |
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This thread is a little baffling. The murder rate is half what it was in 1972. The OP says there were less "mass murders" in 1972 then today because he does not remember them. Offers this as a strawman argument for locking up the mentally ill.
Let's jog the memory banks: Mark Essex 1972. He killed nine people including five police officers and shot 13 others during his killing spree, including a total of ten police officers, something of record of that day. This is stunning oversight by a police officer and I find it amazing he does not recall it. Especially considering how Essex was taken out by the combined efforts of air mounted Marines and huge numbers of NOLA police officers. He was about as looney toons as any spree shooter out there today. But there is no shortage of them. If we just look at where five or more people were killed in one swoop I can bring in a few dozen examples from the 70s.
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