|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
March 4, 2009, 05:56 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 14, 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 6,117
|
Professor Takes Heat for Calling Cops on Student Who Discussed Guns in Class
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,504524,00.html
This is where America is going with liberals teaching schools today.:barf: A college teacher called the police on a student that gave a report on why guns should be allowed on campus. |
March 4, 2009, 06:07 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
|
Gee, maybe I should quit my job.
Also, please read my sig below for a more nuanced look at academics and shooting. Did you know that quite a few academic support the RKBA or because one person acts like a butt then the gun world is going to end? This should be hit as a drive - by but the comment on where America is going gives me an opening to comment on the defeatist attitude of so many in the gun world. One teacher is nutty and that's where the whole country is going. Bury your guns and wait for the UN. In fact, such a blatant violation of reasonable speech (if that is the case) will be GOOD for the cause. Trying to constrain speech usually brings out a strong rebuttal. Colleges are very fearful of bad publicity, get the hint.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens |
March 4, 2009, 06:10 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 28, 2008
Posts: 240
|
Thanks for the info OZ.
As a university student I have often felt the opposition to concealed weapons from other students and professors. Most are abysmally ignorant and have not done any primary research to justify their claims. The ones who have tried to research the issue often rely on bias sources that protect their own preconceptions. I don't think that we pro 2nd amendment folks will ever be able to win over the academics to our side. They consider themselves too "refined" to even engage the question. |
March 4, 2009, 06:16 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
|
Ahem - read my post. Just another quitter.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens |
March 4, 2009, 06:19 PM | #5 |
Junior member
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 14,172
|
I have sold 6 SIG rifles to a college Prof here in AK...he wears his Life member NRA hats to faculty meetings
WildnyanyaigottenurenyanyaAlaska ™ |
March 4, 2009, 06:27 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
|
I know one who bought a 50 BMG. And have a cadre of professorial friends with ARs and Glocks and other things that go boom.
Guess what - my school actually sent me to LFI-1 and let me be a FOF roll play at the NTI - three times. I took my advanced stat class to the range for an end of the class party and it was written up in the school paper. The liberals are coming, the liberals are coming. They are taking away our guns and giving us "D's" on our report cards. I'm done for the day - I have to grade exams on neurophysiology of vision. Then on Friday I might set up an IDPA match and shoot it on Sunday. However, since I am 'refined' - I have to confess that at the last party I was in charge of the cheese plate and my theme was artisanal and blue. We had a Humboldt Fog Maytag Blue Extra Aged Appenzeller Cashel Blue Neal Yard's Cheddar. So I am refined. Yesterday I drank red wine.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens |
March 4, 2009, 07:36 PM | #7 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 31, 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,775
|
Quote:
__________________
"God and the Soldier we adore, in time of trouble but not before. When the danger's past and the wrong been righted, God is forgotten and the Soldier slighted." Anonymous Soldier. |
|
March 4, 2009, 08:06 PM | #8 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 3, 2009
Location: WI
Posts: 331
|
Nice article Glen. I'm nearing the tail end of my college career at an über-liberal college (UW-Madison). It's nice to know that there are guys like you out there. If any of my profs have been pro-gun, they have kept it to themselves. I have had a few downright antis though.
As I was reading that news clip my mind drifted back to last semester. Last semester I took an intro speech class (I had 3 credits to blow and decided on speech because I'm terrified of pubic speaking and needed the practice). It was a 100 level class full of mostly freshmen, so it was pretty laid back. We had to practice giving different types of speeches to the class. For the most part the subject matter didn't matter too much as the whole point of the class was the delivery of the speech and its general layout as opposed to the subject matter of the speech. So, for the most part, we got to choose our own subject matter. For one of the speeches I got on my soapbox about a subject I am passionate about: guns. I lost the final draft, but I still have the rough copy on my hard drive. Keep in mind that this isn't word for word what came out of my mouth (and this is the rough draft), but a general direction that things went in. Kind of scary to think that I could have had the cops called on me if I was in Anderson's class. Quote:
Last edited by chemgirlie; March 5, 2009 at 01:57 AM. Reason: typo |
|
March 5, 2009, 12:41 AM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 11, 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 109
|
Chemgirlie -
Bravo!! Ole!! What a great speach/article! Most excellent! Right this moment, you are my hero! This work must be published. Send it to your local newspaper. How about the "pink" website, Pax? You have explained things in a wonderful, down to earth way. I don't know that it will enlighten the anti's, but it sure could open some minds among the disinterested or leary peoples. I know you said that the subject matter didn't matter for this assignment, but surely you got feedback from some of your classmates. Did any of them talk to you about the subject later? Again, congratulations! A+ on (written) delivery, structure, and content! |
March 5, 2009, 01:37 AM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 3, 2009
Location: WI
Posts: 331
|
I do wish I still had the final draft. I see at the point that I wrote it I hadn't filled in the final draft stats (there was an "insert % here"). I had a bit of an issue where I accidentally deleted the wrong file (oops). But, I suppose I can go back and re-clean it up.
I tried to keep away from the "it's our right" argument, as I think that one's been beat to death already (not that I'm opposed to beating it more though). The bit that lists the 4 rules could have been left out, but I kind of felt like I had a responsibility to say them due to the fact that many of my classmates had never heard of them, let alone knew what they are. There was a q/a session afterwards that was supposed to be feedback on how you presented/possible improvements/etc, but it ended up being mostly commentary on gun control. As I expected most of the class was on the Brady side of things. But, thankfully most were willing to at least give the other side a listen. My prof stayed pretty neutral on everything (thank goodness). I did have some people stay after class and do a laid back mini-debate and talk about some points about gun control and self defense. Some had questions about guns and some had questions about gun policies. I had one guy ask me "does a gun go off if you drop it?" and another who thought bullets exploded like a little bomb. I'm pretty open to fielding questions from anybody about anything (and quite enjoy teaching people about guns), and there was no shortage of them afterwards. |
March 5, 2009, 02:40 AM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 4, 2008
Location: San Antonio, not San Antone...
Posts: 1,203
|
I think the prof in question is probably one of two things:
1) Just someone who felt that it was worth a phone call to have PD talk to those folks and make sure they were on the up and up. If they are, no harm done. If they aren't, well, let the police handle it. OR 2) Someone who is so uneducated (or miseducated) regarding guns, gun culture, and the right to self defense that she got scared at the mere mention of guns in her classroom. Notice that I do not think that she is actively anti. If she were, she would be smarter than to try to make an issue out of this. Most professors are familiar with the Bill of Rights, especially that important 1A, no? Furthermore, it was her own assignment that brought up the topic. She's smarter than to try to use this as some sort of "Aha! Caught you discussing guns!" moment. No, she was probably just being careful. I'm in transportation (charter buses) and DHS (Dept. Homeland Security) even has a program for us so that we can report suspicious activity we may see as we drive around (the most suspicious thing I've ever seen was me buying a six-pack for later consumption!). I'm quite sure schools and colleges have a similar program. Post 9/11, post VT, post NIU, post UCA, ad nauseam; each time this happens they get a little more sensitive. At this point, even the mention of guns in these places makes folks uncomfortable. It's becoming like California.
__________________
Read this!: I collect .38 Special and .357 Mag cartridges and I will PAY CASH for the headstamps I don't already have! Please PM me. Please donate blood, plasma, and platelets - people's lives literally depend on it. |
March 5, 2009, 07:56 AM | #12 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,717
|
Quote:
As for the article, the professor doesn't appear to be taking too much heat at all. It appears that all that has happened is that a 3rd party organization (FIRE) is speaking out against the professor. It isn't like the professor is being investigated by the university for inappropriate behavior or anything like that.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange Last edited by Double Naught Spy; March 5, 2009 at 08:02 AM. |
|
March 5, 2009, 09:20 AM | #13 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 20, 2002
Posts: 2,108
|
Quote:
|
|
March 5, 2009, 10:44 AM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
|
Let's just give up on the RKBA because a teacher said something stupid.
And the college didn't do XY or Z - so make a fuss. Or give up and bury your guns. BTW, I was going to add that a few years, I did a study that found that the % of college profs having concealed carry permits in Oregon and TX schools was comparable to the general population. Also, academics like Lott and Kleck are the mainstays of the research support for the utility of firearms ownership. I have a shelf full of reasoned pro-gun books by academics. Bellesiles crappy book was taken down by Cramer and then by academics. Academic women have written major works supporting the linkage of firearms and women (unlike some of our membership here). How did all this happen?
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens |
March 5, 2009, 11:54 AM | #15 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 4, 2008
Location: San Antonio, not San Antone...
Posts: 1,203
|
Quote:
I strongly believe that, like almost anything, attitudes can be changed with education, immersion, and mentoring. The antis and ignorant rule the roost when it comes to gun 'education' and most of what makes it into the media and entertainment. They put ads on buses, bus shelters, and billboards. They've got Hollywood so far up - well, let's just say they're wrapped around their fingers. What do we have? Sure, I try to be an ambassador, but my reach is very limited. We have no ads, and no TV. How do we reach the masses with the responsible gun owner message? I'm quite sure, neighbor, that you are more knowledgeable regarding this than me. Have the NRA/GOA/TSRA/others run any major public information campaigns? If so, what were the results and reactions? For the record, I am not being confrontational. I always try to word my posts as carefully as possible since text lacks tone and such and can be misunderstood.
__________________
Read this!: I collect .38 Special and .357 Mag cartridges and I will PAY CASH for the headstamps I don't already have! Please PM me. Please donate blood, plasma, and platelets - people's lives literally depend on it. |
|
March 5, 2009, 12:05 PM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
|
No, not you, theotherTexasRich. I was just commenting on the throw-away earlier lines that overgeneralized about academics. Sorry, if I came across as cranky. I sometimes get discouraged by some gun forum rhetoric. Something negative happens and it is the end of the world. On about 4 different places, I frequent somebody says - See, there's no hope for colleges!!
All because of one story. How about - look at that - let's see if we can change attitudes. Other advocacy groups get their position attacked and they don't give up and declare their cause hopeless. As far as the NRA - they had and have fine directors of research. They attend academic conferences like the American Society for Criminology and engage crappy antigun presentations. They have helped me in some of my work.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens |
March 5, 2009, 07:58 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 10,446
|
Has anyone ever stopped to think that perhaps proportions of anti- college professors may vary depending on the area? For example, I'd expect to find more anti's at Berkeley than I would at Texas A&M. Seems to me that the colleges that get the most exposure are often in "Blue" states like California or Massachussetts and thusly their liberal faculty get more exposure and contribute to the stereotype.
|
March 5, 2009, 08:13 PM | #18 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 3, 2009
Location: WI
Posts: 331
|
Quote:
I ended up going here because Madison is the only university in WI that offers my major and out of state tuition was scary. Yeah, I could have gone to MN (they have tuition reciprocity with WI), but being raised a badger, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. |
|
March 5, 2009, 10:21 PM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,717
|
Political leanings can also vary greatly by department. I found that business departments tend to have a greater concentration of conservatives than say sociology or biology.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange |
March 5, 2009, 11:01 PM | #20 |
Member
Join Date: March 3, 2009
Posts: 19
|
I agree with Double Naught Spy, a difference in department or major often can mean a difference in the views of the majority of the individuals. Reminds me of a discussion section I had for an Engineering and the Environment class, it was a core class that was mainly full of undecided majors that were in the class for the environment part, where I was outnumbered about 20 to 1 when it came to my stance on gun rights and guns in general. I was all but crucified one day when we had to rate a list of items from the most dangerous to the least dangerous in which handguns were included and ended up in the top three on 90% of the lists. It amazed me how uneducated and ridiculous some of the statements that were made were. There was actually a group of people that thought police officers should not be allowed to carry while on duty.
|
March 5, 2009, 11:49 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 13, 2008
Location: WA
Posts: 344
|
That is kind of funny. In my criminal law class a student used as an example a person with a concealed pistol license at school in their scenario. Before adressing his scenario she made it a point to tell the whole class "let me tell you, there is nothing so scary that you need to bring a gun to school". That had me laughing(after class or course, I want a good grade). It all depends where you are at though. The majority of colleges in my area are going to be anti. Thank god there are a few holdouts though.
|
March 7, 2009, 02:49 PM | #22 |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,832
|
Just curious...
Calling the police because some students were talking about guns (as part of a class assignment!)
Wouldn't this be under the category of filing a false police report? Probably not, as the prof apparently thought something dangerous was going on, BUT if it does, want to bet the prof doesn't get the same treatment as any other "false report" case? I'm not going to bemoan the overall quality of our system, based on this one individual example (I have plenty of others for that), but it is a sad thing that someone who apparently has such a fragile grip on reality is in a position of teaching.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
March 7, 2009, 11:12 PM | #23 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,717
|
Quote:
The report was to the university police. Given that the call was from a faculty member and the fact that the university police probably have plenty of free time, they followed through much more thoroughly than would happen outside of the university environment. I am not defending the prof or the police in any way. I don't know what was actually said in the student's talk. It is possible that the student said things in the context of a RKBA talk that went well beyond RKBAs. It is also possible the prof is a loon. I dunno.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange |
|
March 7, 2009, 11:41 PM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 3, 2009
Location: WI
Posts: 331
|
I'd be leery of punishing somebody for calling the cops if they truly thought something was wrong. I do think that this prof needs a bit of re-education herself though (or perhaps she never read the bill of rights).
|
March 8, 2009, 12:18 PM | #25 |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,832
|
Ah, I misunderstood.
I doubt seriously that university police will charge a professor, for anything less than a blatant crime. Nothing against them, but that is the way the world works.
Some of you college folks, refresh my memory, please. In the event of an actual crime, wouldn't campus police just hold the suspect for the local police to arrest and charge? Or do they have the authority to do that on their own? In a situation such as this one, if the university police don't press any charges, I would imagine the local police wouldn't have much interest in it?
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
|
|