Problem seating 230 gr laser cast 45

BwanaDave · January 22, 2007, 10:42 PM

I'm new here so bear with me. I have been reloading a few years, mostly for pistols. I picked up a 1911 the other day and purchase some rcbs carbide dies for it. I am trying to load Federal cases with Oregon Trail Laser Cast 230gr rn bullets.

The problem I am having is seating the bullet. The shell holder will not come all the way up to the die with a bullet in the case. It will on an empty case.

I have loaded alot of plated cast bullets but no non-plated bullet in the past.

What am I missing here?

Thanks

Dave

Edward429451 · January 22, 2007, 10:45 PM

Sounds like you need to flare the case mouth a little more. Welcome to the forum.

BwanaDave · January 23, 2007, 12:04 AM

I don't think it is the flare. I have played around with it a bit trying different amounts of flare. There isn't a problem getting the bullet started in the case.

After writing the first post I tried a couple of other things. I put a factory round in the shell holder and pushed it up into the die. It hung up just like the laser casts did. I then pulled the die and looked up into it. The shoulder for the crimp appears to be about a half an inch into the die and that is what is causing the resistance. I think I may have gotten some sort of special purpose die or a defective one. The die has the following stamped on it: RCBS 45 ACP TC SEAT .6.

I am confused. Without having the shell holder bottoming out on the die there doesn't seem to be any way to have a consistent OAL.

Thanks

Dave

okiefarmer · January 23, 2007, 01:03 AM

I'll add my two cents here from my experience on the ACP round. It appears you have an RCBS taper crimp die. Back the thing out some. The loaded bullet does not need to go all the way into it like the sizer die, just far enough to seat the bullet to desired OAL, and close the bell. The ACP doesn't require a taper and some say it is taboo as it headpaces on the case mouth, but if you do get a bit too much taper, the extractor will hold the round in the proper place. I prefer the LEE FC (factory crimp) die personally, and use it sparingly, just enough to allow ease of feeding. Also, if you aren't quite sure about the seating die you had, can you also be sure you have a RN seating punch in there too. Check on that.

HTH
Okie out

mjrodney · January 23, 2007, 05:09 AM

Another vote here for the Lee Factory Crimp die.

Seating the bullet in a separate operation, followed by the Lee Factory Crimp, has resulted in 100% reliability for my own reloads.

ECLIPSE45ACP · January 23, 2007, 06:19 AM

Lee FC is the way to go, very consistent. I am loading Berry's and Ranier's plated 45 acp, no issues at all....

BwanaDave · January 23, 2007, 08:13 AM

Thanks. I believe you are correct about the taper crimp die. I am still a bit confused about how one knows when the bullet is set to the proper depth if the shell holder isn't being stopped by coming into contact with the die.

I guess I could push the press arm to the bottom of the stroke and then tighten the die down until the crimp shoulder comes in contact with the case, then back off a hair. After locking the die in position on the press I would adjust the seating part of the die to the proper depth.

The problem with the above is that I would have to bottom out each stroke which is awkward.

Thanks

Dave

okiefarmer · January 23, 2007, 09:30 AM

Dave,

Bottoming out each stroke is what will give you consistency on your loads. The case will come to rest in the exact same position of each stroke. There should have been instructions on how to set the nose punch in the seating die. If not, sans getting rid of the TC die, thread the body in to the point that you just straighten out the bell you made for ease of bullet seating. There is no way to do this without ruining a few cases, but just rebell them and use them again. It would actually be preferable to adjust the seating dies with unprimed (but sized) brass so when you do get the projos seated where you want, you can trash the brass, or just toss the whole thing in the melting pot and melt the lead back out of the case, or pull the projos, your'e call. Run the seating nose punch stem into die about 1/3 of thread length, and run a case up in die with bullet centered in case. Check OAL, if not what you want, thread stem out/in depending on what is needed to achieve required OAL. Most presses by design cam over at the bottom of the stroke, and you need to take it through that cam motion, that is the last minute movement where the bell is removed. Again, you don't want to do this on a "feel" method somewhere in the middle of the stroke, you want it to seat/and close bell at the top (or bottom if you prefer) of the stroke.

HTH,
Okie out

BwanaDave · January 23, 2007, 11:59 AM

Thanks. I loaded up 50 using the method stated in my earlier post. I did get consistent OAL by using the bottom of the stroke and adjusting thereto.

I have left a little, less than 1mm, of the shoulder on the bullet exposed. It is enough to show that the bullet appears to not be going straight in. I am using an old Lyman press that is set at a bit of an angle rather than straight up and down. I haven't used this press before, it is just an old thing that was sitting around and I decided to bolt it to a bench the other day. I am wondering if this slight angle could be a contributing factor in the alignment issue? I guess I could load the next batch in my RCBS press and see if the problem goes away.

I have read about premium seating dies, would such a die improve the seating alignment?

Thanks

Dave

BwanaDave · January 23, 2007, 02:55 PM

Problems resolved. The final trick was to put a slight chamfer on the inside of the case. Why this worked and the slight bell didn't I will never know. The finished product looks good, now if I can slip away for a little trigger time to test it.

Thanks for all the imput.

Dave

January 22, 2007, 10:42 PM	#1
BwanaDave Member Join Date: January 22, 2007 Posts: 21	Problem seating 230 gr laser cast 45 I'm new here so bear with me. I have been reloading a few years, mostly for pistols. I picked up a 1911 the other day and purchase some rcbs carbide dies for it. I am trying to load Federal cases with Oregon Trail Laser Cast 230gr rn bullets. The problem I am having is seating the bullet. The shell holder will not come all the way up to the die with a bullet in the case. It will on an empty case. I have loaded alot of plated cast bullets but no non-plated bullet in the past. What am I missing here? Thanks Dave

January 23, 2007, 05:09 AM	#5
mjrodney Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2006 Location: SW Florida Posts: 435	Another vote here for the Lee Factory Crimp die. Seating the bullet in a separate operation, followed by the Lee Factory Crimp, has resulted in 100% reliability for my own reloads. __________________ Proud supporter of the NRA

January 22, 2007, 10:45 PM	#2
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Sounds like you need to flare the case mouth a little more. Welcome to the forum.

January 23, 2007, 12:04 AM	#3
BwanaDave Member Join Date: January 22, 2007 Posts: 21	I don't think it is the flare. I have played around with it a bit trying different amounts of flare. There isn't a problem getting the bullet started in the case. After writing the first post I tried a couple of other things. I put a factory round in the shell holder and pushed it up into the die. It hung up just like the laser casts did. I then pulled the die and looked up into it. The shoulder for the crimp appears to be about a half an inch into the die and that is what is causing the resistance. I think I may have gotten some sort of special purpose die or a defective one. The die has the following stamped on it: RCBS 45 ACP TC SEAT .6. I am confused. Without having the shell holder bottoming out on the die there doesn't seem to be any way to have a consistent OAL. Thanks Dave

January 23, 2007, 01:03 AM	#4
okiefarmer Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 381	I'll add my two cents here from my experience on the ACP round. It appears you have an RCBS taper crimp die. Back the thing out some. The loaded bullet does not need to go all the way into it like the sizer die, just far enough to seat the bullet to desired OAL, and close the bell. The ACP doesn't require a taper and some say it is taboo as it headpaces on the case mouth, but if you do get a bit too much taper, the extractor will hold the round in the proper place. I prefer the LEE FC (factory crimp) die personally, and use it sparingly, just enough to allow ease of feeding. Also, if you aren't quite sure about the seating die you had, can you also be sure you have a RN seating punch in there too. Check on that. HTH Okie out

January 23, 2007, 06:19 AM	#6
ECLIPSE45ACP Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 177	Lee FC is the way to go, very consistent. I am loading Berry's and Ranier's plated 45 acp, no issues at all....

January 23, 2007, 08:13 AM	#7
BwanaDave Member Join Date: January 22, 2007 Posts: 21	Thanks. I believe you are correct about the taper crimp die. I am still a bit confused about how one knows when the bullet is set to the proper depth if the shell holder isn't being stopped by coming into contact with the die. I guess I could push the press arm to the bottom of the stroke and then tighten the die down until the crimp shoulder comes in contact with the case, then back off a hair. After locking the die in position on the press I would adjust the seating part of the die to the proper depth. The problem with the above is that I would have to bottom out each stroke which is awkward. Thanks Dave

January 23, 2007, 09:30 AM	#8
okiefarmer Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 381	Dave, Bottoming out each stroke is what will give you consistency on your loads. The case will come to rest in the exact same position of each stroke. There should have been instructions on how to set the nose punch in the seating die. If not, sans getting rid of the TC die, thread the body in to the point that you just straighten out the bell you made for ease of bullet seating. There is no way to do this without ruining a few cases, but just rebell them and use them again. It would actually be preferable to adjust the seating dies with unprimed (but sized) brass so when you do get the projos seated where you want, you can trash the brass, or just toss the whole thing in the melting pot and melt the lead back out of the case, or pull the projos, your'e call. Run the seating nose punch stem into die about 1/3 of thread length, and run a case up in die with bullet centered in case. Check OAL, if not what you want, thread stem out/in depending on what is needed to achieve required OAL. Most presses by design cam over at the bottom of the stroke, and you need to take it through that cam motion, that is the last minute movement where the bell is removed. Again, you don't want to do this on a "feel" method somewhere in the middle of the stroke, you want it to seat/and close bell at the top (or bottom if you prefer) of the stroke. HTH, Okie out

January 23, 2007, 11:59 AM	#9
BwanaDave Member Join Date: January 22, 2007 Posts: 21	Thanks. I loaded up 50 using the method stated in my earlier post. I did get consistent OAL by using the bottom of the stroke and adjusting thereto. I have left a little, less than 1mm, of the shoulder on the bullet exposed. It is enough to show that the bullet appears to not be going straight in. I am using an old Lyman press that is set at a bit of an angle rather than straight up and down. I haven't used this press before, it is just an old thing that was sitting around and I decided to bolt it to a bench the other day. I am wondering if this slight angle could be a contributing factor in the alignment issue? I guess I could load the next batch in my RCBS press and see if the problem goes away. I have read about premium seating dies, would such a die improve the seating alignment? Thanks Dave

January 23, 2007, 02:55 PM	#10
BwanaDave Member Join Date: January 22, 2007 Posts: 21	Problems resolved. The final trick was to put a slight chamfer on the inside of the case. Why this worked and the slight bell didn't I will never know. The finished product looks good, now if I can slip away for a little trigger time to test it. Thanks for all the imput. Dave