Does It Count?

roy reali · December 26, 2006, 02:32 PM

You are out dove hunting. You see an incoming bird, bring your shotgun up, and pull the trigger. No doubt it was a good hit. The bird comes down hard. You and your dog proceed to the spot it landed. You get there and there is a thick, thorny clump of brush.

You are sure your bird is in there. But there is no way that you or your dog will ever recover that bird. Even a chihuahua couldn't get through the thorns.

My question is, will you count that bird towards your bag limit? I don't mean from a legal standpoint, but from an ethical standpoint.

Edward429451 · December 26, 2006, 02:50 PM

No. Same thing as having a deer run off and making a real but failed attempt to find it.

Coyotes gotta eat too.

CK1 · December 26, 2006, 03:43 PM

My question is, will you count that bird towards your bag limit? I don't mean from a legal standpoint, but from an ethical standpoint.

Absolutely.

Ratsrepus · December 26, 2006, 04:15 PM

I count hit-but-not-recovered animals as part of my bag.

Gbro · December 26, 2006, 06:41 PM

I truly belive that this is a good baseline for the determination of a Red Neck.

Now us Red-Necks would (all but the lame would git that thar bird) not even think of abusing the term bag limit, Look in thar & count, What ya say the limit is?

Ethec? whats that talk about anyway????

FirstFreedom · December 26, 2006, 06:45 PM

It depends. On this issue, the ethics are 100% parallel to the state rules, IMO. So the ethics question IS the legal question, in my view. So it depends on the state. If the rule is "bag" means kill in "bag limit", then yes. If "bag" means "put into your game collection bag" (more likely), then no it doesn't count, quite simply because it ain't in your bag. The state wildlife department sets all of its rules & regulations for a REASON. They are the experts in how many of X or Y species needs harvesting. They of course take into account such scenarios. If they still define "bag" as keep, then they've taken it into account that others will be culled from the flock. Following the legal rules to the letter *nearly always* makes you an ethical hunter, IMO.

Art Eatman · December 26, 2006, 08:28 PM

Well, the great state of Texas sez I can go play with the doves for some eight weeks. Ten or twelve birds a day. In theory, then, I can go out and legally/morally kill around 600 doves in a season.

I'm not going out that often. Heck, who does? So at most if all goes well I'm gonna go out and get maybe four or five days' worth of limits.

My ethic says to make an honest effort to find any bird I down. Common sense says to not go berzerkoid worrying over one (bleep) dove.

Art

SD_Chop · December 26, 2006, 08:37 PM

Think of it as what it is... "bag limit" how many you bag and keep

trooper3385 · December 29, 2006, 12:48 AM

If it isn't in my bag, (or my wifes bag if she goes with me) it doesn't count.

DonR101395 · December 29, 2006, 12:55 AM

Nope, the other critters have to eat also. You just provided a free meal for a coyote.

dfaugh · December 29, 2006, 11:41 AM

Well, to me, ethically (forget about bag limits) I have duty to recover game that I killed. So I'd do my absolute best to recover it. But if it really, truly can't be recovered, well like others have said, leave to the scavangers.

"All God's children gotta eat."

revjen45 · December 29, 2006, 07:55 PM

For some reason, this thread evoked the line from "The Outlaw Josey Wales" to the effect that "Buzzard gotta eat same as worms."

Jseime · December 29, 2006, 09:37 PM

I would not count it. This goes on the same idea that if you (or your cousins who cant shoot) wound a deer and you try and try and try to track it down and follow it for miles you dont punch out the date on you deer tags and go home you find another deer.

IMHO if you make every attempt to get your game and still cant do it you can go shoot more but only after you are finished looking and trying to recover the lost ones.

rem33 · December 30, 2006, 01:03 PM

If you've made a reasonable effort to retrieve and were unsuccessful then no I would not count that bird as part of my limit.

T. O'Heir · January 2, 2007, 03:37 AM

Jseime, that's embrassing to all Canadian hunters and shooters. You have a legal obligation to recover any game you kill. And an ethical obligation to be competent enough with whatever firearm you hunt with. If your cousins aren't competent, leave them at home.
Thorny bushes can be cut away. You killed it, go get it.

76-bronco-J · January 6, 2007, 09:16 PM

----you should always give a 110% effort to try & recover game ,,,but anyone who say's this is always possible to achieve surely hasn't been hunting very much,,,,,,,,,,,,,

auburnboattail · January 6, 2007, 09:32 PM

I will count it. The purpose of limits is population management for the good of Public,Game and environment.
Im my state doves/ Pheasants/quail are not that plentiful.

Pointer · January 6, 2007, 09:56 PM

No

Quote:

Coyotes gotta eat too.

Even in a thorn bush...

Desertfox · January 7, 2007, 05:47 AM

I personally would have shot that dove so it would die on the ground next to my cooler. Ok, not really.
Heck no I wouldn't count it. Anyone ever dove hunt, and go to the spot that dove landed, just to find it is alive enough to fly away unexpectidly?
Like Art said, my season limit would be 600, 24 in possession, 12 a day.

It aint in possession and I can't see it in that thorny bush (btw, that must be a helluva bush if I can't recover it) I won't count it.

trooper3385 · January 7, 2007, 02:35 PM

Down here in South Texas, if you don't find your bird with in about 10 minutes, you might as well forget about it. The fire ants have already found it. Heck, you better not leave your feet in the same place for more than 10 minutes because they will find you too. Nothing worse than getting bit by the fire ants. Especially when the first one you feel bite you is at your knee. You know your really in trouble then.

piercfh · January 25, 2007, 10:08 PM

I think I have heard " I killed X, but picked up X" all my life. Thats just part of it. As far as counting towards a legal bag l wouldnt worry about it. Alot of folks keep a lunch box to fill up after they hit the limit. Then some even dump the lunch box out in the tool box and come back for more.

Dove hunting is awesome.

roy reali · January 25, 2007, 10:18 PM

If I saw someone do what you said, and I thought they were exceeding the limit, I would immediately call Fish and Game. That really ticks me off.

Anyone caught exceeding the limit hunting should be made to spend the night as Rosie's sex slave.

skeeter1 · January 25, 2007, 10:34 PM

I've had the same thing happen. AFAIC, what comes home in my bag is my bag limit. I'm sure I nicked a duck once that kept on flying until way out of range to retrieve before he went down (on someone else's private property). The bugs at the bottom of the food chain took care of it I'm sure.

BIGR · January 25, 2007, 10:54 PM

If I couldn't find it I wouldn't count it since I would not be in posession of it.

castnblast · January 26, 2007, 10:38 AM

AMEN ART AND TROOPER! The ethics part comes from the wanton waste rule...you make the honest effort to locate you downed game. End of story...As much as I hate fire ants, they're gonna get their meal every dove season... Also, If I make the effort to go dove hunting, at only 12 birds per day, and their diminuative size, I'm taking home 12 birds so I can have a meal...

To each his own though, but I'm not gonna loose any sleep over one or two doves...as long as I know in my heart I made an honest effort to retrieve them.

afterthought...one way I cut down on wanton waste birds is to not shoot doubles...It seems like if I take my eye off a downed bird and get greedy, I'll loose one if not both birds...

December 26, 2006, 02:32 PM	#1
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Does It Count? You are out dove hunting. You see an incoming bird, bring your shotgun up, and pull the trigger. No doubt it was a good hit. The bird comes down hard. You and your dog proceed to the spot it landed. You get there and there is a thick, thorny clump of brush. You are sure your bird is in there. But there is no way that you or your dog will ever recover that bird. Even a chihuahua couldn't get through the thorns. My question is, will you count that bird towards your bag limit? I don't mean from a legal standpoint, but from an ethical standpoint.

December 26, 2006, 02:50 PM	#2
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	No. Same thing as having a deer run off and making a real but failed attempt to find it. Coyotes gotta eat too. Last edited by Edward429451; December 26, 2006 at 08:31 PM.

December 26, 2006, 08:37 PM	#8
SD_Chop Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2006 Location: Va, USA Posts: 474	Think of it as what it is... "bag limit" how many you bag and keep __________________ Liberty or Death...

December 29, 2006, 11:41 AM	#11
dfaugh Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,715	Well, to me, ethically (forget about bag limits) I have duty to recover game that I killed. So I'd do my absolute best to recover it. But if it really, truly can't be recovered, well like others have said, leave to the scavangers. "All God's children gotta eat." __________________ "If you Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules" "No one has the answer, but one thing is true. You'e got to turn on evil, when its coming after you. You've gotta face it down,and when it tries to hide, you've got to go in after it, and never be denied. Time is running out...Let's roll. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for love. We're going after satan, on the wings of a dove. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for truth. Let's not let our children grow up fearful in their youth."

December 29, 2006, 09:37 PM	#13
Jseime Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,775	I would not count it. This goes on the same idea that if you (or your cousins who cant shoot) wound a deer and you try and try and try to track it down and follow it for miles you dont punch out the date on you deer tags and go home you find another deer. IMHO if you make every attempt to get your game and still cant do it you can go shoot more but only after you are finished looking and trying to recover the lost ones. __________________ I love the smell of fresh shotgun in the morning.

December 26, 2006, 03:43 PM	#3
CK1 Member Join Date: December 25, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 48	My question is, will you count that bird towards your bag limit? I don't mean from a legal standpoint, but from an ethical standpoint. Absolutely.

December 26, 2006, 04:15 PM	#4
Ratsrepus Member Join Date: October 25, 2006 Posts: 37	I count hit-but-not-recovered animals as part of my bag.

December 26, 2006, 06:41 PM	#5
Gbro Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,084	I truly belive that this is a good baseline for the determination of a Red Neck. Now us Red-Necks would (all but the lame would git that thar bird) not even think of abusing the term bag limit, Look in thar & count, What ya say the limit is? Ethec? whats that talk about anyway????

December 26, 2006, 06:45 PM	#6
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	It depends. On this issue, the ethics are 100% parallel to the state rules, IMO. So the ethics question IS the legal question, in my view. So it depends on the state. If the rule is "bag" means kill in "bag limit", then yes. If "bag" means "put into your game collection bag" (more likely), then no it doesn't count, quite simply because it ain't in your bag. The state wildlife department sets all of its rules & regulations for a REASON. They are the experts in how many of X or Y species needs harvesting. They of course take into account such scenarios. If they still define "bag" as keep, then they've taken it into account that others will be culled from the flock. Following the legal rules to the letter nearly always makes you an ethical hunter, IMO.

December 26, 2006, 08:28 PM	#7
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Well, the great state of Texas sez I can go play with the doves for some eight weeks. Ten or twelve birds a day. In theory, then, I can go out and legally/morally kill around 600 doves in a season. I'm not going out that often. Heck, who does? So at most if all goes well I'm gonna go out and get maybe four or five days' worth of limits. My ethic says to make an honest effort to find any bird I down. Common sense says to not go berzerkoid worrying over one (bleep) dove. Art

December 29, 2006, 12:48 AM	#9
trooper3385 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2005 Location: South Texas Posts: 814	If it isn't in my bag, (or my wifes bag if she goes with me) it doesn't count.

December 29, 2006, 12:55 AM	#10
DonR101395 Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2005 Location: NWFL Posts: 3,031	Nope, the other critters have to eat also. You just provided a free meal for a coyote.

December 29, 2006, 07:55 PM	#12
revjen45 Junior member Join Date: May 7, 2006 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 626	For some reason, this thread evoked the line from "The Outlaw Josey Wales" to the effect that "Buzzard gotta eat same as worms."

December 30, 2006, 01:03 PM	#14
rem33 Junior member Join Date: March 31, 2006 Posts: 1,528	If you've made a reasonable effort to retrieve and were unsuccessful then no I would not count that bird as part of my limit.

January 2, 2007, 03:37 AM	#15
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Jseime, that's embrassing to all Canadian hunters and shooters. You have a legal obligation to recover any game you kill. And an ethical obligation to be competent enough with whatever firearm you hunt with. If your cousins aren't competent, leave them at home. Thorny bushes can be cut away. You killed it, go get it.

January 6, 2007, 09:16 PM	#16
76-bronco-J Junior Member Join Date: January 6, 2007 Location: houston,TX Posts: 6	----you should always give a 110% effort to try & recover game ,,,but anyone who say's this is always possible to achieve surely hasn't been hunting very much,,,,,,,,,,,,,

January 6, 2007, 09:32 PM	#17
auburnboattail Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2006 Posts: 179	Limit I will count it. The purpose of limits is population management for the good of Public,Game and environment. Im my state doves/ Pheasants/quail are not that plentiful.

January 7, 2007, 05:47 AM	#19
Desertfox Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2006 Location: Arkansas-Oklahoma Line Posts: 336	I personally would have shot that dove so it would die on the ground next to my cooler. Ok, not really. Heck no I wouldn't count it. Anyone ever dove hunt, and go to the spot that dove landed, just to find it is alive enough to fly away unexpectidly? Like Art said, my season limit would be 600, 24 in possession, 12 a day. It aint in possession and I can't see it in that thorny bush (btw, that must be a helluva bush if I can't recover it) I won't count it. __________________ Teach a kid to respect wildlife, then teach a kid to hunt and fish.

January 7, 2007, 02:35 PM	#20
trooper3385 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2005 Location: South Texas Posts: 814	Down here in South Texas, if you don't find your bird with in about 10 minutes, you might as well forget about it. The fire ants have already found it. Heck, you better not leave your feet in the same place for more than 10 minutes because they will find you too. Nothing worse than getting bit by the fire ants. Especially when the first one you feel bite you is at your knee. You know your really in trouble then.

January 25, 2007, 10:18 PM	#22
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Re:piercfh If I saw someone do what you said, and I thought they were exceeding the limit, I would immediately call Fish and Game. That really ticks me off. Anyone caught exceeding the limit hunting should be made to spend the night as Rosie's sex slave.

January 25, 2007, 10:34 PM	#23
skeeter1 Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2006 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 3,403	I wouldn't lose any sleep over it I've had the same thing happen. AFAIC, what comes home in my bag is my bag limit. I'm sure I nicked a duck once that kept on flying until way out of range to retrieve before he went down (on someone else's private property). The bugs at the bottom of the food chain took care of it I'm sure.

January 25, 2007, 10:54 PM	#24
BIGR Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2000 Location: Mountains Posts: 1,385	If I couldn't find it I wouldn't count it since I would not be in posession of it.

January 26, 2007, 10:38 AM	#25
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	AMEN ART AND TROOPER! The ethics part comes from the wanton waste rule...you make the honest effort to locate you downed game. End of story...As much as I hate fire ants, they're gonna get their meal every dove season... Also, If I make the effort to go dove hunting, at only 12 birds per day, and their diminuative size, I'm taking home 12 birds so I can have a meal... To each his own though, but I'm not gonna loose any sleep over one or two doves...as long as I know in my heart I made an honest effort to retrieve them. afterthought...one way I cut down on wanton waste birds is to not shoot doubles...It seems like if I take my eye off a downed bird and get greedy, I'll loose one if not both birds... __________________ VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter Last edited by castnblast; January 26, 2007 at 10:43 AM. Reason: afterthought...