Clays for hot loads = probably not a good idea?

[foxfyre841]

Hi all,

I wanted to run a load I found on handloads.com for the 45 long colt.

255 SWC / 11gr CLAYS / WLP

I loaded some at ~20% reduced below this at 9gr Clays. Haven't shot it yet. I'm thinking that, after having read around here, that shooting this would not be that good. I have a new model blackhawk.

What say you people? Dangerous as loaded? Dangerous recipe as written?

Thanks

James

(BTW I've read that clays will somehow increase the pressure in the case as it gets older. Myth or fact?)

[AlaskaMike]

The thing you have to keep in mind is that Clays is one of the fastest powders available, and at the higher end of its useful pressure range the pressure spikes very quickly. Because of that you want to avoid it for full power loadings and instead use something like 2400, H110, W296, AA#9, N110, or 4227.

I can't say whether that load data is dangerous, but you're probably okay with 9 grains of Clays under a 255 grain cast SWC in a New Model Blackhawk. I'd still recommend something slower powder though.

Mike

[zxcvbob]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

Herco and WSF work really well with cast bullets in .45 Colt for hot "Ruger" loads when you want something a little less than H-110 or 296 can deliver. (and it takes half as much powder, or less) 12.0 grains of either powder is a good load for 255 grain bullets.

Added: I haven't run the numbers in QuickLoad, but 255 SWC + 11gr CLAYS sounds like a hand grenade to me. I use 7.5 grains of Red Dot with 230 grain cast bullets for a warm load, and Clays is about as fast as Red Dot, maybe faster. At 8.5 grains, Red Dot gets really spiky and unpleasant. I would never go to 9 with it, even if the modeling software said it was OK. Eleven grains is just crazytalk.

[foxfyre841]

Alright, I may get my hillbilly bullet disassembler (a piece of hardwood with a hole in it small enough to catch the rim) and unload those. I don't want a pressure spike in a new (to me) gun. I definitely do not want my wife to find them and put them in her new model vaquero.

Thanks for the tips. With powder availability being what it is, I've bought a pound of lil'gun to try. I've heard elsewhere that it does quite well in heavy loads and with non-mag primers to boot.

Regards,
James

[zxcvbob]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I was trying to use up the last of a pound of Blue Dot -- I bought it for loading .357 Magnums but didn't like it. So I loaded 16.5 grains of Blue Dot in .45 Colt cartridges with 250 or 255 grain cast bullets (I don't remember which, but it doesn't matter.) That was a *nice* load. Lower pressure than my usual hot loads using Herco, and a little higher velocity.

[RidgwayCO]

Let's see... on their web site Hodgdon lists a maximum of 5.1gr of Clays under a 250gr LRNFP bullet in .45 Colt (1.600" COL).

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

So your 9.0gr load is 76% HIGHER than Hodgdon's MAXIMUM, and with a (slightly) heavier bullet...

Just one more reason not to get your reloading recipes off the internet...

[dfe2240]

Load data varies all over the map, but I figure the companies manufacturing the powder have done the most testing and probably the most reliable data. Undoubtedly, the maximum load figures are a bit on the conservative side because they KNOW some reloaders will exceed them, but they're certainly an excellent reference point. I think you definitely become an accident in search of a place to happen when you exceed the recommended max load without having worked up to it. It doesn't make sense to try 9 grains when you haven't even tested 5.1 grains. As has been pointed out, Clays is a fast burning powder and that means lots of pressure.

[Jim Watson]

Nine grains of Clays is a gross overload. Don't shoot it.

Nine grains of UNIVERSAL Clays (an ENTIRELY different powder) would be a heavy but usable load in a strong gun like a Ruger.

[Unclenick]

With a 1.600" COL, QuickLOAD puts the 255 grain Lyman SWC over 11 grains of Clays at 51,000 psi, a peak pressure compatible only with the SAAMI max for the .454 Casull. The 9 grain load is predicted to produce 37,000 psi, about where the .44 Mag and .357 Mag rounds are rated.

As previously suggested, Clays is not a good choice for such warm loads. This is because the above pressures will only apply with the seating depth for the exact particular bullet just right and its hardness just right, making the load very sensitive to small errors. It is also because the same velocities can reached with far lower peak pressures using a slower powder.

For example, In a 6" revolver barrel, the above two loads get to a predicted 1450 fps and 1145 fps, respectively. By burning a greater weight of powder more gradually, 2400 will achieve those same velocities with just 30,600 and 16,700 psi, respectively. Much easier on the gun.

[bluetopper]

I've experimented a lot with Clays in various calibers. I now only use it in 38Spl and 45acp.
It's a great powder for low pressure calibers I don't use it in high pressure calibers.
I think Clays is easier to pressure spike than any other powder. You just can't load it too hot.....bad things happen.