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Old July 8, 2019, 02:31 PM   #1
P5 Guy
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On Point (NPR) on Gun Control for Virginia

https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2019/07...ession-northam

Bad news for Virginians that obey the laws. Unlike the murderer on VA Beach.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome.
Has the handgun used been confirmed to have a sound suppressor and what were the 'extended magazine' capacity over standard?
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Old July 8, 2019, 04:49 PM   #2
Tom Servo
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This article has a list of the measures Northam is proposing. They include:
  • "universal background checks"
  • an "assault weapons" ban
  • magazine bans
  • a ban on silencers
  • a "one handgun per month" law
  • reporting requirements for lost or stolen guns
  • "Extreme Risk Protection Orders"
  • allowing individual cities and counties to pass laws stricter than those on the state level

Quote:
Has the handgun used been confirmed to have a sound suppressor and what were the 'extended magazine' capacity over standard?
No idea on either point. All that the police have told the media is that he owned "extended magazines" and a silencer.

Given that the gun control lobby is obsessing about the overwhelming power of the .45ACP loading like a 1911 fanboy, my guess is that the silencer wasn't used in the shooting.
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Old July 8, 2019, 08:25 PM   #3
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Connecticut had an "assault weapon" ban in place at the time of the Sandy Hook school shooting. That didn't prevent it.
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Old July 8, 2019, 11:51 PM   #4
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And then there's this headline:

Quote:
VA GOP Senate Majority Leader Caves, Pushes Gun Control
You can read the story here:
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...s-gun-control/

Although the story says the Majority Leader is pushing for more "gun free zones"...it doesn't say what he's going to do about all the other proposals. So maybe the headline is sensationalizing a bit.
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Old July 9, 2019, 09:04 AM   #5
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Quote:
VA GOP Senate Majority Leader Caves, Pushes Gun Control
No caving going on just true colors showing thru.
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Old July 9, 2019, 10:49 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
. . . . Given that the gun control lobby is obsessing about the overwhelming power of the .45ACP loading like a 1911 fanboy, . . . .
Well, that's interesting. I have long since lost count of the number of time I've read that the AR-15 is "the weapon of choice for mass shooters." Nonetheless, the article that Tom linked quite clearly says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Yablon of 'The Trace'
"Like most mass shooters, the Virginia Beach gunman used a handgun. . . . "
But wait! I thought. . . .
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Old July 9, 2019, 11:04 AM   #7
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Virginia Beach -- no assault weapon
STEM School -- no assault weapon
Univ. of North Carolina -- no assault weapon
Prescott H.S. -- no assault weapon
Lake Mary H.S. -- no assault weapon
Robert E. Lee H.S. -- no assault weapon
Henry Pratt Co. -- no assault weapon
Central Academy -- no assault weapon
Frederick Douglass H.S. -- no assault weapon
Mercy Hospital -- no assault weapon
Borderline Bar & Grill -- no assault weapon
Hot Yoga -- no assault weapon
Rite Aide Warehouse -- no assault weapon
Masontown Borough Municipal Center -- no assault weapon

I could go on, but what's the point? My numbers show that, of 748 killed by firearms in the incidents I have tracked, 267 were killed by "assault weapon" type firearms. That's 36 percent -- just over one-third. So much for the myth that mass shooters overwhelmingly choose AR-15s.
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Old July 9, 2019, 11:07 AM   #8
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I'm pretty sure that the statistics will show that most mass shooters used a gun.

Extensive investigation has revealed that, statistically, when most mass shooters do use a gun, its almost always either a rifle, shotgun, or handgun!!

Some mass shooters even combine them into a hyper lethal cocktail of death and destruction!!!!



I suppose I've gotten jaded, it no longer bothers me that they print the kind of drivel I wrote above (and, get away with it!!), what bothers me is that they get PAID to do it.

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Old July 9, 2019, 12:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
My numbers show that, of 748 killed my firearms in the incidents I have tracked, 267 were killed by "assault weapon" type firearms. That's 36 percent -- just over one-third. So much for the myth that mass shooters overwhelmingly choose AR-15s.
Not doubting your math, but in this case, you're using the wrong numbers.

The number of people killed by "assault weapons" is not the relevant number, when claiming or disproving the claim of what mass shooters choose to use.

the number you need to use is number of times assault weapons were used, against the number of incidents, not the percentage of people killed by a wackjob using assault weapons, or the number of people shot (and survived)

Of course, the resulting number (percentage of times) will depend on the size and accuracy of your database AND the accuracy of your definitions, as well as getting the basic arithmetic correct.

IF, for example, my data base has only 3 incidents, say Stockton (semi auto AK), Louisville (semi auto AK) and Newtown (AR-15), then my statistics will show mass shooters use "assault weapons" 100& of the time! (and FYI the term "assault weapon" did not exist at the time of the Stockton and Louisville shootings).

Now if I add the Virginia Tech murders (handguns), then my result is "mass shooters use assault weapons 75% of the time!!"

Not that it will matter much in the long run. ALL our (misguided?) efforts at getting them to use terms correctly has done is force them to make new terms, defining their incorrect usage as correct.

The next time they redefine "Assault weapon" it might be to the definition many tried to use in the days before the 94AWB.

Some folks (who really ought to have known better) seriously tried to make the argument that ANY gun, and every gun used to assault someone was an "assault weapon".

Grammatically possible in English, but not even remotely correct usage for the context. It is tempting to consider that it might have been better if we had allowed that definition by use to stand. It would be better, IF they followed the rules, but they won't, so I suppose we're better off the way things are.

IF we accept the definition by use , that a gun is an assault weapon if used to assault someone, they THEY would have to accept the other side of that coin, which is that a gun that has NOT been used in an assault cannot be an assault weapon.

The gun USED in a mass shooting, say an AR type, that gun (ser# bcxya1234) would be an assault weapon because people were shot with it. (shooting people is assault under our legal code), but the AR in my closet, and all the ARs on dealer's shelves, and every where else would NOT be "assault weapons" because they shot nobody, and therefore, would be exempt from and laws or regulations restricting or banning "assault weapons".

The other side won't accept using the definition for individual guns, they demand classification by type, and POTENTIAL evil use, not actual use. And with people of similar outlook writing and passing the laws, they usually get it.
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Old July 9, 2019, 03:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP
Not that it will matter much in the long run. ALL our (misguided?) efforts at getting them to use terms correctly has done is force them to make new terms, defining their incorrect usage as correct.

The next time they redefine "Assault weapon" it might be to the definition many tried to use in the days before the 94AWB.
It's already happening -- and has happened. The federal AWB has expired, but several states have their own AWBs in place, and I'm pretty certain that the definition of "assault weapon" is now different for New York than for California than for Connecticut than for Massachusetts than for ___.

The Connecticut "assault weapon" definition mirrored the federal definition from 1994 until 2014. Then they revised it in the aftermath of Sandy Hook. I worked on a construction project with a young from Connecticut who owned an AR-15. He came into the field office one fine day, about six months after the deadline for registering previously exempt "post-ban" AR-15s with the State Police (because the 2014 re-definition made all post-ban AR-15s into instant "assault weapons") and asked if anyone knew where/how he should go about registering his AR-15. I had to explain to him that he was more than a day late and a dollar short, and that he should (1) keep his mouth shut about owning that firearm; and (2) get it out of Connecticut ASAP.

He eventually left the company and I never heard what (if anything) he did about his newly-minted "assault weapon," but he was not a happy camper when I explained to him that he was now a felon.
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Old July 9, 2019, 04:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
I had to explain to him that he was more than a day late and a dollar short, and that he should (1) keep his mouth shut about owning that firearm; and (2) get it out of Connecticut ASAP.
Oh goodness. I am CERTAIN that was VERY BAD advice and you should be ashamed of yourself and yet, IMhO, it is almost the very definition of "common sense" gun control advice.

In other news...it appears after a semi-major kerfuffle the Virginia legislature adjourned just 90 minutes after it was convened and so Virginia gun owners won't face any new gun control laws for a while.

https://www.nbc12.com/2019/07/09/lat...-gop-mutiny-2/
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Old July 9, 2019, 08:59 PM   #12
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Interesting development. I knew that none of the bills would go anywhere except straight to committee... but the drama with Norment was unexpected. I wonder what back-room antics came into play with all that. My conspiracy-meter is pegged wide open with theories.

The real concern for Virginia gun-owners is if the Virginia GOP doesn't get their stuff together, they're going to hand the whole state legislature over in November... which will immediately pass every wish-list anti-gun bill they can come up with. It'll paint a very clear picture for what will happen at the federal level for the next time the Presidency and both houses turn blue.
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Old July 19, 2019, 10:40 PM   #13
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"The real concern for Virginia gun-owners is if the Virginia GOP doesn't get their stuff together, they're going to hand the whole state legislature over in November... which will immediately pass every wish-list anti-gun bill they can come up with"

Yep. This. Enjoy (and buy) while you can.
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