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Old November 22, 2017, 05:08 PM   #26
RC20
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Usually a floated barrel is better than a contact barrel.

That said, I would go with (and do personally) with something thicker than a dollar bill.

The contact solution was for a different stock setup, aka full military stock.

Yes, sometimes it does help tame a recalcitrant barrel.

There are some good suggestion on complete ego through and check all the basics as well.

Most if not all of those would not have the barrel return to the original POI if they were in affect. It would be random.
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Old November 22, 2017, 05:48 PM   #27
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RC20, you're thinking of static conditions. When you fire vibrations in the barrel begin. So dollar bill clearance can become five dollars when shooting . Lighter barrels vibrate more , My 223 Kimber was fine with 'static clearance' but not shooting. I put a shim under the front of the barrel , raising the barrel to be really free floating -- cutting the groups in half !!
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Old November 22, 2017, 06:04 PM   #28
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Action needs to be blueprinted. That WILL cure your problem.
Agreed. You will also need a barrel if you decide on this option, as there is not enough barrel shank to rethread the barrel on a Model 70. We do this kind of work, if you can't find a smith in your area.
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Old November 22, 2017, 09:58 PM   #29
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Could be

It might be just scope or mount related. I would try a different scope first and pay special attention to any shiny spots on scope tube or rings. Improper torque sequence of some brands of mounts will have the rings torqued on the scope tube yet loose on the mounts.

I traded off my scope to find out it was my fault not following mfg directions.
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Old November 23, 2017, 11:13 AM   #30
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Action needs to be blueprinted. That WILL cure your problem. Winchester are notorious for being off center axis.
I expect it will, as blueprinting the action will require a new custom barrel with oversize tenon to fit the threads after they've been single-pointed. Any "blueprint" to an action is half azzed without cutting new threads perpendicular to the bolt raceway.
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Old November 23, 2017, 11:55 AM   #31
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Any "blueprint" to an action is half azzed without cutting new threads perpendicular to the bolt raceway.
There is a difference between building a benchrest action and a very straight hunting action. I can usually get by without recutting threads and simply set the barrel back a couple thread and run finish reamer. If I am building a bench gun, I use a Bat action anyway. In hunting rifles, there is always the price point to consider. Is building a 5/8 Moa hunting rifle "half azzed"? You could pour 4x the money into it and have 1/4 moa. I guess it just depends on the size of the wallet and the perceived need of the person pulling the trigger. There is basic blueprinting, it does not require a new barrel unless there is a major issue with the factory one. Notice that I said "blueprint." I did not say full bench rest prep.

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Old November 23, 2017, 03:27 PM   #32
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I don't follow your point.
Setback and re-chamber is just that, it's barrel work, it's not truing an action.
Problem is, the terms "blueprinted" and "trued" actions have no specific meanings.
Plenty of rifle owners use 700 clones and "fully trued" actions that don't shoot off a bench.
We all have our own opinions, but doing half a job- that may not help accuracy at all- isn't acceptable to me.
If I true an action, the threads will be recut. The only thing "optional" to me is reaming the bolt raceway and replacing the bolt as in my experience satisfactory improvements can be had without that in most cases, unless the bolt is really sloppy.

I don't work on Winchesters- but you're the one that stated "they are notorious for being off center axis".
I'm assuming you mean the receiver threads, since it would be pretty tough to cut a chamber off center (oversize, sure- but not " off center"). I know of no way receiver threads can be brought perpendicular to the raceway without recutting them, which would require a new barrel.

P!ease explain what I'm misunderstanding?
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Old November 23, 2017, 03:49 PM   #33
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You can get them good enough by doing what Larry Porterfield does in his youtube video "blueprinting a 700 action." I don't do it exactly that way, but close. I do almost all of it in the lathe, but same concept. Sure, I can and have done actions that required threads be enlarged and completely recut, but it's rare. The last one I did that required complete rethread was a Win WSM. It was a mess. I rethreaded a Remington takeoff barrel I got from CDNN for $40 to go on it. It shoots dime sized 5 shot groups at $100. Not wonderful but ok for $40 and two hours.
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Old December 4, 2017, 03:28 PM   #34
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The first thing I'd do is to increase the clearance between barrel and barrel channel to at least 1/16". Forget the dollar bill trick, it's NOT enough clearance.

Next, check to be sure the recoil shield is not bottoming out in the well. Increase clearance there.

If there aren't pillars in at the stock screws, install some! I tend to use pieces of 1/2" steel tubing bought at Home Depot, then cut pieces to size and groove them with a moto-tool cutting disk. Glue them in with epoxy.

If you want to be sure the bedding is okay, put an epoxy skim layer near both frond and rear screws.

Then, if it still doesn't shoot great, sell it!

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Old December 5, 2017, 10:29 AM   #35
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I understand you have a rifle that walks after the first shot and you believe it is heat related. I can understand you just want a stable rifle.

I don't doubt a full true/blueprint and rebarrel with a bedding tuneup will fix it.
Fair pay to your smith,it sounds expensive.

I don't doubt the benefits of truing . Not arguing with anybody.

Is the barrel shank bedded,or free floated.? I'd make sure the stock was not doing anything to the barrel.Get clearance....barrel shank,too.
There are a number of things to pursue that may tighten groups. But specific to your problem I'm thinking the hole does not go straight down the center of the barrel . The thin wall side gets hotter ,quicker.It expands to longer. Your barrel is acting like a bimetal strip.
Odds are good a new barrel is part of the solution.

I'm thinking I'd do some inspection to determine how out of square the receiver is before I'd commit to recutting the threads.If its bad,its bad.
But I can't leap to the conclusion the work needs done till the indicator says so.
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Old December 5, 2017, 07:48 PM   #36
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BC, I blueprint every non Savage, non Bat, action I build on. Every one of them need it.
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Old December 6, 2017, 05:56 PM   #37
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Odds are good a new barrel is part of the solution.

I'm thinking I'd do some inspection to determine how out of square the receiver is before I'd commit to recutting the threads.If its bad,its bad.
But I can't leap to the conclusion the work needs done till the indicator says so.
X2
I'll face the receiver, chase the threads with a bottoming tap, then use a plug gage to check thread alignment to quantify any misalignment.

The barrel is by far the most important component, and based on the symptoms it's where I'd start if it were in my hands.
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Old December 6, 2017, 11:34 PM   #38
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Is it glass bedded with epoxy with recoil lugs bedded too. Could try shimming the action up out of the stock to float it more and then do the bedding. Idk every rifle ive shot would shoot 5 shots one after another 1moa or slightly worseb And ive never shot more than 5 in a row because thats the most i would dream if shooting in succession while hunting.
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