12 ga, 2 & 3/4" 00 buckshot or 3" 00 buckshot for sd/hd?

cajun47 · June 15, 2011, 01:01 PM

i find remington patterns and cycles the best in my mossbergs 500s. the 2 3/4" has 9 pellets vs. the 3" with 15 pellets but the guns will hold 1 less round with the 3".

model18 · June 15, 2011, 01:06 PM

the blast from the 3 in. shell would be way too much inside. stick to 2 3/4..........just my 2 cents

hogdogs · June 15, 2011, 01:22 PM

If you do your part at all, the 2 3/4" will kill 'em dead enuff. The 3" don't kill em any deader.

In all seriousness, the 3 inch could easily delay reacquisition of target in the sights or onto second target enough to put you behind the 8-ball.

As for blast (either noise or muzzle flash)... It won't matter Your going to be temporarily deaf with either one. I am not sure I would be able to tell you which was which inside a confined space that I just heard.

I have always practiced that if I am the one who has to call 911 after a HD self defense shooting, I am going to be short sweet and to the point...

"Hello, I am temporarily deaf, I just had to discharge a weapon in my home, I was forced to shoot an intruder. My address is XXXX ABC St. When I see the flashing lights of a patrol car I will have someone exit the home unarmed to lead police in, they will be safe. Thank you." CLICK.

Brent

Gehrhard · June 15, 2011, 07:40 PM

Hogdog: this is a thread about 12 gauges which you don't even own. How is it you can have SO MANY comments on this stuff? I really am astounded.

Anyway, to the OP, as many threads will tell you, you probably don't want 00 Buck. I would personaly say "definitely not." Try 1 or 0 Buck. Othere will give you some pablum: it's all good if you just practice alot, or, if ya'll ain't a set ta killin' a grizzly then you'se a gonner. Whatever.

More valid points...

A Mossberg 500 WILL hold 5 + 1 3" shells -- American ones (with star crimps). Even if they didn't, which they do, and you were anxious, there are 12 ga. 2-3/4" Magnums with 12 pellets. Knock yourself out. And maybe keep a pair of Hocks Noise Braker standard ear plugs in your nightstand as I do -- they "reduce ALL sounds to approximately speech level" so you can still hear the bumps-in-the-night but not necessarily go deaf if you, or someone else, pull a trigger indoors.

http://www.hocksproducts.com/hocks_n...ring_protector

"OMG, what the lawyers would do to you!!!" LOL

hogdogs · June 15, 2011, 07:51 PM

Gehr, The 12 gauge is the gun I have the most rounds thru...

Just because I currently get by with just a 20 gauge and a .22 rifle is no evidence of my knowledge...

Plus I am tryin' to surpass peetzakilla as he got around me in post count when I was spending too much time on my local fishin' forums...

Brent

Gehrhard · June 15, 2011, 07:54 PM

But, your WIFE's 20 ga. was stolen and with the police! Dude!!!

hogdogs · June 15, 2011, 08:00 PM

I bought it with her in mind... As I said, She has never fired it. So I toted it in the back window of my dumptruck for a while. And it did spend 10 years in an evidence room. But being so glad to get it back, it went back into severe duty.

The day I got it back I threw a certain .410 in a saltwater river for reasons I do not elaborate on.

As for preferred size shot for HD, the 00 is hands down the choice of the majority.

Brent

shortwave · June 15, 2011, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Hogdog: this thread is about 12 gauges which you don't even own. How is it that you have so many comments?

Maybe he slept at a Holiday Inn last night.

Where in the world did that comment come from Gehrhard?

Hogdogs is one of the more shotgun savvy people here on TFL.

Also, I do own several 12ga's. and,IMO, would completely agree with his post. In a SD shotgun, I'd much rather have the availability of one more rd of 2 3/4 than 3". The extra recoil of the 3" would make target re-acquisition a bit tougher.

Gehrhard · June 15, 2011, 08:12 PM

I'm not necessarily disagreein' with hog. But, I where's it comin from if he doesn't even own and shoot? Holy cow!?

And maybe you missed my point: I did not recommend 3" but corrected the savvy and novice alike that a Mossberg 500 HOLDS five 3" American rounds. Maybe you don't believe me. Try it yourself. Then pass the baton? Jeez.

As for 00 Buck being popular... So are illegal drugs. Most Americans are overweight. Obama was elected President of the US and won the Nobel Peace Prize a week later. What's your point?

Now, about that .410...

LOL

hogdogs · June 15, 2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

But, I where's it comin from if he doesn't even own and shoot?

This is 100% supposition... I have learned never to base my thoughts solely on what one may say as the only thing they are knowledgeable of.

As for 12 gauges, I have been shooting them since I was a very small 9 or so years old. Couldn't hold it up so dad would kneel down and I would rest the barrel on his shoulder.

Been hunting with 12 gauge since I was 11. I didn't shoot my first 12 gauge repeater until I was 18 or nearly so.

I am from po' folk roots and learned very early on that ammo was a precious commodity. For me to see a new full box of ammo I would get giddy like it was christmas mornin'... And dad would say... "Better make it last, that stuff don't grow on trees ya' know."...

Brent

Lee Lapin · June 15, 2011, 08:28 PM

Expecting a home invasion from Sasquatch?

A 2.75" 00 load will do all you need to do, as long as you put the payload where it needs to go. A miss with 15 pellets is no more effective than a miss with 9, followup shots (if needed) will almost certainly be faster with the 2.75" load.

Unless you're a Sasquatch yourself...

lpl

ETA: 00 buck is a perfectly reasonable choice for HD, unless you have over-riding concerns that would indicate a lighter payload would be a better choice. Paper thin walls, neighbors in close proximity, etc are among the sort of concerns I mean.

Gehrhard · June 15, 2011, 08:28 PM

Sorry, and then you took at least a decade's vacation from shotgunning while the 20 gauge was in police custody but you posessed a .410 incognito?

OK

Anyway, IMO Cajun, 00 Buck of any length for HD is a poor choice unless u r outside buck and bear hunting or sweeping the back-40 clear of Zombies (which lurk around your neck-o-the-swamps) beyond 40 meters... But if that's what you feel you need, can control, and optimizes your capability, perception is obviously your reality and I say go for the gusto...

...but practice the basics regularly and learn your gun as that's really the most important thing you can ever do, forgetting the hardware question, and such generic responses can't be said often enough.

Gehr

hogdogs · June 15, 2011, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Sorry, and then you took at least a decade's vacation from shotgunning while the 20 gauge was in police custody but you posessed a .410 incognito?

Exactly! I sure did... I never even fired that .410 one time.

When my home was burglarized by a young couple my wife chose to help out, they cleaned out a quite extensive group of guns. Many shotguns... all 12 gauge except this 20 and the bolt action .410 that my dad gave me as my first gun when I was 8 as it was also his first gun.

I also had rifles in .22 lr, .30-30 as well as a few .30-06. The handguns numbered near a dozen.

The only one I got back was this 20 gauge as it was my only purchase that required a form 4473. Lucky for me, Service Merchandise went under so the form was in the "turn 'em in if you go out of business" files. And when the city PD ran the serial number one last time before destruction 10 years after they got it, my name came up as the original buyer and it did not match the name of the man who used it in an aggravated assault and had it confiscated.

There was a time (my dump truck was very lucrative and efficient) whern I ALWAYS bought one gun per week at least every thursday night...

But if you want to continue, we really need to go to PM as I am breaking the same rules defending myself as you are for trying to "call me out"... This has nothing to do with the OP's question of 2 3/4 or 3 inch 00 buckshot for HD.

brent

Austinite · June 16, 2011, 12:29 AM

Get a room you two!!

The most brutal round that I've fired in any gun was a 3" Winchester 00 Buck load fired from a 870 with a long tube. Follow up shots are much faster with a 2 3/4" 00 load.

hogdogs · June 16, 2011, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Get a room you two!!

Yep... That is the reason for...

Quote:

But if you want to continue, we really need to go to PM as I am breaking the same rules defending myself as you are for trying to "call me out"... This has nothing to do with the OP's question of 2 3/4 or 3 inch 00 buckshot for HD.

Brent

hardworker · June 16, 2011, 04:49 AM

I'd use 2 3/4 for the simple reason that you can get an extra shot or so in there, but if 3in was all I had left from hunting I'd use that and maybe one day remember to swap out or maybe not. It's not rocket science.

hogdogs · June 16, 2011, 07:06 AM

Quote:

I'd use 2 3/4 for the simple reason that you can get an extra shot or so in there,

Actually, in my mossberg 500, it has some mag tube left after (5) 2 3/4 but not enuff to cram a sixth in there... It also holds (5) 3 inch shells. Many guns are the same in this regard. I do not know any that hold a higher round count with 2 3/4.

Math math doesn't support this either. 5 x .25 (1/4 inch) is 1.25 inches (happens to be the length of free play in my mag tube with 5 x 2 3/4)... not enuff to fit a 2 3/4 shell.

Brent

mavracer · June 16, 2011, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Actually, in my mossberg 500, it has some mag tube left after (5) 2 3/4 but not enuff to cram a sixth in there... It also holds (5) 3 inch shells. Many guns are the same in this regard. I do not know any that hold a higher round count with 2 3/4.

Remington 870 standard mag tube will not usually hold the 5th 3" shell. the one I had with the extention would hold seven 2 3/4" with enough extra room to switch one out for a 3".

to the original question there are a few reasons I use 2 3/4" buck the biggest is 9 OO buck is and always has been great deterrent.

C0untZer0 · June 16, 2011, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Hogdog: this is a thread about 12 gauges which you don't even own. How is it you can have SO MANY comments on this stuff? I really am astounded.

I'm not attacking anyone - I'm just using this as an example... it's a case of "You don't have to be a whale to write Moby Dick."

We should be able to talk about different ideas on this forum based on the merit of the ideas themselves without trying to undercut the merit of the idea by discrediting the forum member presenting the idea.

The same sort of logic could be used in reverse that is to say "unless you've shot a home intruder with 00 buckshot - then you don't know what you're talking about."

So anyway, those are my thoughts on that, and I'm not trying to offend anyone and I hope I haven't offended anyone.

C0untZer0 · June 16, 2011, 09:39 AM

This is really about 2¾" vs, 3"

I don't think it's about total round capacity as much as it is about shootability and target acquisition..

I don't have any doubt that the 3" shell is more effective. That's 6 extra projectiles! Getting shot 6 times with a 33 caliber projectile is going to make a difference.

Wouldn't this be different for each person depending on their ability to shoot 3" ? For some people that's no problem to shoot 3”, not be disoriented indoors and stay on target. For others they may not be able to do that…

The research shows that most engagements in the home are very short, they very seldom turn into a running gun battle. HD situations are usually resolved fairly quickly with a low number of shots being fired and people either quickly being incapacitated or killed or the intruders fleeing.

So my opinion is that if someone is able to control the 3” and shoot it well in HD situations – the fact that you can’t get as many 3” shells in you shot gun might not be a factor and probably is not as important as the increased overall effectiveness of the 3” over the 2¾"

Lee Lapin · June 16, 2011, 10:26 AM

I don't have any doubt that the 3" shell is more effective.

I do.

On paper, or just counting pellets, sure - it looks like a 3" maggie numb is 'better.' But as far as keeping those pellets where you want them to go is concerned, or managing faster follow-up shots, it might or might not work that way. It depends on how a given barrel patterns with a given buckshot load, and it isn't possible to say how a given shotgun and load will pattern - or whether or not it is actually "more effective" - until it's patterned at the ranges where it might be used. Buckshot pellets that miss their intended target are not only NOT "more effective," they are a positive liability - because each stray pellet has the potential to cause collateral damage. As Louis Awerbuck says - every pellet goes downrange with a lawyer in tow. And it depends on how well a shooter can manage a heavier recoiling load also.

That's 6 extra projectiles! Getting shot 6 times with a 33 caliber projectile is going to make a difference.

More stopped than stopped, or deader than dead? Too much is not enough? Concentrating on putting the payload where it needs to go is a better solution than worrying about launching a heavier, harder to control payload IMHO. Of course, my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it...

lpl

C0untZer0 · June 16, 2011, 11:36 AM

I guess I shouldn't have made this unqualified statement

Quote:

I don't have any doubt that the 3" shell is more effective. That's 6 extra projectiles! Getting shot 6 times with a 33 caliber projectile is going to make a difference.

I should have said, for a shot that puts all pellets on target, done by a shooter who is capable of controlling and effectively firing the 3" shells - the 3" shell is more effective than the 2¾"

There are a lot of conditions there...

But I did say this:

Quote:

Wouldn't this be different for each person depending on their ability to shoot 3" ? For some people that's no problem to shoot 3”, not be disoriented indoors and stay on target. For others they may not be able to do that…

Lee Lapin · June 16, 2011, 11:40 AM

Mo' betta, dat.

My point as usual being, there are no hardware solutions (more pellets! more pellets!) to software problems (hit the target!).

lpl

shortwave · June 16, 2011, 11:47 AM

Sooo... I guess the answer to which shell is best for SD/HD still is unanswered since if you make a good shot with 2 3/4, 00, the perp is just as dead as with the 3". Too, if you really want to kill him, roll some 00buck 3 1/2".