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Old September 19, 2020, 07:23 PM   #26
cslinger
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Technology is great and advances in it can absolutely have profound effects.

That said when it comes to firearms.......
Not a GIGANTIC amount has changed since smokeless powder.

.45 ..... well it ain’t gonna bounce off.
.40 ...... Ummm yeah probably gonna leave a mark...
9BPLE ........ pretty damn effective in its day.....but since humans have changed so much....

Point is modern 9mm is probably the most efficient caliber. It doesn’t mean it has to be the ONLY caliber.

Learn to shoot. Not learn to shoot a specific caliber.
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Old September 20, 2020, 01:41 AM   #27
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Of the handguns I own, I would choose my BHP 40cal because someone mentioned that the 40S&W could be used for hunting and it's the most accurate/compact handgun. I think it comes down to what your use is first. If I was just camping, I'd probably carry my Makarov because it's so compact.
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Old September 20, 2020, 02:53 AM   #28
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Hunting with a Browning High Power in .40? That’s funny!
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Old September 20, 2020, 07:33 AM   #29
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9mm is a good and effective caliber.

45acp is a good and effective caliber.

There are lots of good and effective calibers.

Shot placement is the key to success with either. The caliber you prefer isn't critical. Go with what scratches your itch and don't be concerned with anyone else's opinion.
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Old September 20, 2020, 07:41 AM   #30
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All I'll say here is that this is a creative way to start a new thread on "9mm > 45acp. fight me"
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Old September 20, 2020, 09:00 PM   #31
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Regarding the use for outdoor and 4-legged critter defense, the nice thing about a pistol chambered in 45 acp is that most likely it can also shoot 45 Super and 450 SMC, with factory loads that compare to very hot loaded 10mm rounds both in energy and in price (although not in availability). There are those who swear by 45 Super for hog hunting:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...-super.642312/

In that thread they say:
"The advantage of the .45 super is in bullets ranging from 230-260 grains, bullets the 10MM can't fire, or aren't common. Don't have any 10MM loads for 220 grain bullets."

The higher capacity of 10mm is great, though. But on the other hand... 10mm is more expensive to shoot than bulk 45 ACP. Price and the suitability for different uses (personal defense, woods defense and big game hunting) makes the 45 acp a very versatile round I think. Again, it is a very capable jack of all trades but master of none.

But as I wrote on a previous post, 9mm is in my opinion the superior round for personal defense. It is for nothing that it was initially called 9mm "Parabellum" meaning "Prepare for war".

They didn't call it 9mm "Para animalis" : )

Last edited by Pistoler0; September 20, 2020 at 09:24 PM.
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Old September 20, 2020, 09:12 PM   #32
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I have Glock 19, 34, and a 1911 posted for home defense. Added a 45 AR15(Glock Mags) this year to go with my 870 Tactical. Absolutely love that AR. 8" Barrel, no gas tube and blows the black out of the bull at 25 yards.
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Old September 20, 2020, 09:31 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COSteve View Post

While it's true that it still works just fine for thin skinned 2 legged threats, it fails miserably on thicker skinned, 4 legged threats. Penetration on thick skinned animals is poor for the 45acp so it's more of a liability than an asset.

Hands down, my choice would be a 10mm. Higher capacity, much higher velocity, significantly higher ME and with the polymer options available, all in a lighter package. Don't get me wrong, I own 2ea 1911s in 45acp and love to shoot them but any woods walking I do in the Rockies, I always take my 10mm.
Hey COSteve, if I remember well you are the fellow with a long slide Glock 21, no? You in the Front Range area?

I am near Conifer/Morrison, PM me and lets talk guns! : )

And yeah, regular 45 acp wouldn't be no good for thick skinned fare, but 45 Super out of that long slide G21 of yours would be a mini hand cannon, definitely do the job for anything in our area and maybe bigger (a few Alaskans tout it).
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Old September 21, 2020, 01:16 AM   #34
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The gun community has done no disservice to the novice shooter at all. If anything the novice shooter has failed to do proper research on his or her own and are probably lazy so they ask a question to which there is no wrong or right answer and it becomes a question of personal preferences and opinions. Those that are quick to give answers are giving answers based on personal experiences or what they have read.

Guns are tools and with certain calibers, these calibers are best utilized in different scenarios for the various situations that may arise. I will give you an example:

A person may ask if a 22lr or .380 is good for self defense and immediately it turns out to an all out debate resembling democrats and republicans. But I always carry a 22 lr or .380 around the house because of how I plan to use it. It is a light gun and if I'm wearing pajamas or just lounging around clothes I have the gun on me. It is not meant to defend myself but it is meant to give me a chance to get to my bigger caliber guns I have strategically place around the house.

Everyone seems to ask questions about "BEST, CHEAP GUNS" for self defense and my question is why do you want cheap when were are talking about your life. Anyway the internet is not the best place to ask for advice as a large majority that put their 2¢ have no experience but have read about it.
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Old September 21, 2020, 03:23 PM   #35
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While it's true that it still works just fine for thin skinned 2 legged threats, it fails miserably on thicker skinned, 4 legged threats. Penetration on thick skinned animals is poor for the 45acp so it's more of a liability than an asset.
What "thicker skinned" animals are you referring to?

The only native thick skinned threat I can think of is Bison.

now, there are big tough animals, and thick body animals, and some that are both, but nothing in North America is thick skinned in the sense some African animals are save perhaps, the Bison, with is thick skinned, thick bodied and tough all in one package.

Not many of us have to deal with them, however.

Consider this, in many places neither the .45acp or the 9mm Luger are legal for big game hunting. IN some other place, where the biggest game is whitetail deer and black bear, they are.

Which of course has nothing to do with the OP and the idea that the .45acp is "no longer relevant" for self defense...

NOTHING THAT WORKS is ever irrelevant for self defense.
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Old September 21, 2020, 03:42 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoo
Hunting with a Browning High Power in .40? That’s impressive!
Fixed that for you.

Honestly, as long as it's legal to hunt with, there's really no reason why it couldn't be.

.40 S&W is certainly powerful enough for deer, and the Browning Hi-Power is an accurate pistol, so as long as he has the skill to hit targets with it at long distance, there's nothing to laugh at.
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Old September 21, 2020, 05:17 PM   #37
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My BHP 40 is pretty accurate. For fun, I use to shoot clay pigeons at 100 yards with it. So, at less than even 40 yards, it'll go where I point it. I just think it is possible to kill an animal with with the 40 and therefore a person. I'd have less faith in a 9mm. My BHP 9mm is not as accurate. My .357 would work and could be used for hunting but I only use that as my home defense gun because it's simple to use. The gun is too bulky and I like traveling light. A rifle is good enough. If had an accurate load for my Kimber Ultra .45, I'd choose that as my personal firearm if I had to carry it. The last is my Makarov. That would be my go to camping gun. It's so light, I'd forget it is there as if it was a knife pouch. It wouldn't be good for hunting but a good/inexpenseive deterrent from some crazy that would show up in your campground to start trouble.
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Old September 21, 2020, 06:29 PM   #38
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"[I]I shot this guys dog for him with my mighty 45 auto. The first shot was right behind the left leg. The dog went to jumping straight up in the air. Every time it touched down I put another bullet behind the leg. I shot 5 rounds behind the leg. The dog finally stood still and I put round number six through its neck and dropped it instantly."[/

Very poor way to judge a bullets preformanace and ridiculous to knock the .45 based on the above statement. Only thing I see depicted above is Piss poor shot placement if you ask me.. that's what I'm reading, NOT inadequate .45 ACP performance.
I have seen .22 LR's used to take down some big dogs and various large animals... instantly, dropped right in their tracks. Difference is proper SHOT PLACEMENT. Head shots. More humane. Shot placement is everything.
Nothing wrong with the .45 ACP hardball.
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Old September 21, 2020, 07:30 PM   #39
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Quote:
Very poor way to judge a bullets preformanace and ridiculous to knock the .45 based on the above statement. Only thing I see depicted above is Piss poor shot placement if you ask me.. that's what I'm reading, NOT inadequate .45 ACP performance.
I have seen .22 LR's used to take down some big dogs and various large animals... instantly, dropped right in their tracks. Difference is proper SHOT PLACEMENT. Head shots. More humane. Shot placement is everything.
Nothing wrong with the .45 ACP hardball.
Since you weren't there you really don't know what the hell you are talking about do you? I had 5 shots tight behind the shoulder in a group that could be covered by a coffee cup.
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Old September 21, 2020, 07:43 PM   #40
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Decades ago I helped slaughter one of my brother's pigs. It took 3-4 shots in the head with a .22lr using a handgun before it died and I was aiming at the brain cavity. I'd suggest a .45 or at least a 9mm.
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Old September 21, 2020, 08:27 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasT
I shot just behind the left foreleg for a heart shot same as on a deer or other game. Do you really think I shot some dog in the ass 5 times? Wrong round, wrong bullet. The point was to the OP that for animal control there are better guns and rounds than the 45acp with FMJ bullets loaded in it.

And with that I am through in this thread. If you are going to shoot an animal do it in a way it doesn't suffer.
A heart shot isn't as humane as you think it is. Heart shots are ultimately fatal, but they're a far cry from an instant or painless death. A .45 to the brain on the other hand, would have settled things faster and more humanely.
As others have mentioned previously in this thread, even deer whose hearts have practically exploded after being stuck by high powered rifle rounds can still run quite a distance before the wound actually incapacitates them.

I'm terribly sorry for what you had to go through, but you'll feel much better about it if you accept the fact that the cartridge you chose wasn't to blame. You could have shot that dog in the exact same spot with anything and the result would have been the same.

So if you truly advocate shooting animals in such a way as to minimize their suffering, then you need to accept that shooting an animal in the heart is counterproductive to that goal.
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Old September 21, 2020, 08:30 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
What "thicker skinned" animals are you referring to?

The only native thick skinned threat I can think of is Bison.
Thicker than a human's skin which pretty much includes every 4 legged animal out in the woods. That's the 'thicker skinned' I was referring to because the .45acp was developed as an anti personnel round rather than hunting round.
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Old September 21, 2020, 08:48 PM   #43
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Keep in mind for EVERY caliber there is a cheer leader who one shot stopped a threat and is alive today. There is also somebody who has mag dumped a 10mm, .45, .50 BMG who didn’t put the threat down quick enough.

It’s the nature of the beast.

It’s also why I am perfectly fine with a 9mm (GlockSIGHKEtc) but if the worst should come to pass anything short of a 40mm Bofors will likely fill my pants. Who am I kidding. Even with the Bofors I am still screaming like a little girl and calling for my brown pants.

What?!.....I am a realist. A mans gotta know his limitations and I have many.
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Old September 21, 2020, 08:55 PM   #44
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"Since you weren't there you really don't know what the hell you are talking about do you? I had 5 shots tight behind the shoulder in a group that could be covered by a coffee cup."

No Sir, I wasn't there. But I DO know enough to humanly dispatch / euthanize animals with brain shots at close range. The shot group you mentioned may be perfect for hunting, but not for humanly euthanizing an animal at close range. I have heart shot deer and had them run 80 yards or more. It's not an Instantaneous game stopper. A shot that severs the brain stem shuts the power off immediately, be it a .22 or a .45.
Not trying to pick a fight with you, just pointing out poor shot placement is not an accurate manner in which to judge the preformanace of the .45 (or any other caliber).

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Old September 21, 2020, 09:59 PM   #45
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Quote:
Thicker than a human's skin which pretty much includes every 4 legged animal out in the woods. That's the 'thicker skinned' I was referring to because the .45acp was developed as an anti personnel round rather than hunting round.
If we think on it some most handgun rounds were developed as self defense (military) rounds rather than hunting rounds. This would include the 45 Colt, the 44 Special and Russian, the 38 Spl. the 9mm, 45 acp, 38 Super, 10mm and the 40 S&W and 357 Sig. The possible and partial exception to these are the 357 Mag and the 44 Mag. That's because semis were developed for military purposes and only gradually found acceptance as sporting and personal defense guns.

Now some important cultural and historical facts influences our thinking. The first is that for decades, much of the 20th century, most Americans thought of semis as military guns and not fit for law enforcement or hunting. Also true that there were few rounds for semis other than ball for most of the 20th century. Ball ammo is not best for hunting.

So with revolver ammo any shaped bullet was reliable and this led to many useful bullet shapes for handgun hunting and self defense. So with an appropriate bullet up against the right game any revolver ammo from the 38 Spl. on up was good to go. Both the 44 Spl. and 45 Colt in standard velocity loads, with the right bullet, were considered good rounds for hogs and deer at appropriate distances and good bear defense in a tight spot.

We still have a certain prejudice against semi auto rounds and calibers as decent hunting guns. Some anyway.

With the right bullet the 45 acp will do anything the 44 Spl. will or the 45 Colt in standard loads out to the same distances. Nowdays there are more and better bullets than there used to be.

The 45 acp can be a decent hunting caliber with the right bullet. That's true without having to jerk around with the 45 Super or other niche rounds in it.

It may be,
Quote:
the nice thing about a pistol chambered in 45 acp is that most likely it can also shoot 45 Super and 450 SMC,
...
but we don't need to do that for it to be a decent hunting round and superbly accurate. the standard 45acp can do just fine.

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Old September 21, 2020, 10:07 PM   #46
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Personally, I read about people that have been there and done that. You know people like Jeff Cooper, or Elmer Keith, or Skeeter, and see what they used and liked. What were the real life stories in the West, the wars like WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Philippines ... What do GIs like to carry (not necessarily what they were 'told' to carry) . The Seals, the Army Rangers, the Green Berets. Then, looking for a woods gun, turn to big game hunters like Ross Seyfried, Max Prasac, and others. I don't 'fight' for a living, nor do I actively hunt... So this is where I go my information. People that have been there, done that. Then I draw my own conclusions... And I know what I will carry.... different situations will mean a different sidearm. There is not one gun fits all, while a few overlap. And yes, it has shaped my preferences...
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Old September 22, 2020, 10:15 AM   #47
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I like reading articles about police reports. Gel and water is not a convincing indicator to me even though I've shot a .38 Gold Dot in water and the expanded bullet looks convincing.
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Old September 22, 2020, 10:38 AM   #48
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The 45 ACP was meant to incapacitate, take an enemy out of the fight. Its advocates have always cited its effectiveness for one shot stops.
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Old September 22, 2020, 04:08 PM   #49
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Of course the 10mm is the best semi-auto to bring hunting. I used up some WSF for my brother's 10mm years ago. A huge flame came out of it at the indoor range and you could hear the sound if the bullet hitting the backstop. Plus, as an option, you can shoot 40 S&W through it. For hunting, yes the 10mm will work; better than my .40 in the power range.

Let's not forget, the thread is a question comparing 9mm to .45. The new 9mm Speer GDs are nice and it's cheaper to shoot 9mm hardcast lead bullets. The .45 GD makes a slightly bigger hole and hardcast lead bullets will cost more. Barring the cost of ammo or availability.. It depends on if your gun holsters properly for you needs and if you can hit what you're shooting at.
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Old September 22, 2020, 09:12 PM   #50
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Quote:
Of course the 10mm is the best semi-auto to bring hunting.
Not for me. I prefer .357 Mag, .44 Mag, .357AMP, .44AMP and .45 Win Mag for big game hunting with a semi auto pistol.
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