Reload testing question

[950Tourer]

I have been reloading pistol ammo for years and just started reloading rifle ammo. I loaded 200 rounds of .223 ammo last week, 50 and 55gr VMax with H335 and Win 748 powders for use in my AR-15 20" barrel with Nikon P223 3-9 scope.

Will I learn enough with these reloads (group size) at 50 yards or would I be better off testing them at 100 yards?

[Ccctennis]

100 is my minimum for rifle testing. 200-300 would be better. 50 you could make work for narrowing down some but you can't complete it at that distance.

[950Tourer]

That's what I was wondering. The range I go to maxes out at 100 yards I think so I may have to go with that. Thanks for the nudge.

[jwrowland77]

As said, 100yds would be better than 50, but if you can find somewhere where you can shoot the test loads at 200 or 300, even better.

[Unclenick]

At anything under 300 you don't easily see difference in drop due to velocity spread, and you don't see much effect from wind. You can't effectively test the effect of those factors on your loads at shorter ranges than that. On the other hand, bullets in the weight range you've chosen were never really intended to be used much beyond 350 yards. I don't know what your rifling twist rate is, but you'll likely want something a little heavier for long range.

As to the yardage, it mainly depends on the accuracy you are getting. If your gun and ammo can shoot half inch groups at 100, you'll have a really hard time telling what size group they produce at 50 because you'll get a ragged hole. But if the gun's not shooting that well, you'll be able to tell enough at 50 to work on improving your groups smaller. From the standpoint of your technique and the basic load precision, 50's an OK starting point. It's just hard to see the difference an improvement makes shooting at that range.

[Jim243]

With a 3-9 scope you will get better results at 50 yards dialing in your zero. When I am developing a load for any rifle I always start at 50 yards and get the results there before taking it out to 100 yards, it will save time and ammo doing so. You can start at 100 yards, but it is a wee bit more work (and ammo) to get the groups you want at that range. Get what you want at 50 then fine tune it at 100.

Stay safe and shoot straight.
Jim

[Catfish]

First round testing distance is not really that critical, what is critical is that you test the ammo at the range you will use them. If it`s hunting ammo try it at no more than 100 yard increments, 50 is better, out to the max range you will be shooting them.

[Metal god]

I have been reloading pistol ammo for years and just started reloading rifle ammo. I loaded 200 rounds of .223 ammo last week, 50 and 55gr VMax with H335 and Win 748 powders for use in my AR-15 20" barrel with Nikon P223 3-9 scope.

I assume you are saying you loaded

50rds with 50gr vmax and h335
50rds with 55gr vmax and h335
50rds with 50gr vmax and 748
50rds with 55gr vmax and 748

Now was this for your first load development using these components ?
If so did you start at minimum charge and work up in .5 or 1.0 grain increments ?

Or did you pick a single charge weight for each and load 50rnd lots ?

Just checking your process .

As for yardage , I always start at 100yds if using a scope and 50yds if using a red dot or irons . After I find a load that seems to work I move out to longer distances to fine tune the load

[950Tourer]

Metal God, I loaded exactly what you have written. This is my first load development with these components, and I did start at the minimum and go up by .5 grain increments.

The barrel is a 20" heavy barrel 1:9" twist. My scope is currently sighted in at 100 yards with Wolf .223 FMJ. With that ammo, I have managed to hit an 8" steel plate at 400 yards at a friend's hunting cabin.

So I've been very accurate with this rifle/scope combo with "average" ammo. My initial reasoning for getting into reloading many years ago was to develop particular loads for each gun that they would shoot well with.

I chose to start with the 50 and 55gr VMax bullets because I inherited a bunch of them from my father last year.

I hope that fills in some blanks. Mostly I will be limited to trialing my loads at 100 yards.

[Metal god]

Sounds like your on the right track . The 1-9 should spin your bullets just fine . With the 20" barrel you may even be able to shoot as heavy as 77gr bullets with that 1-9 . When ever you get a chance give the 69gr SMK's a try . They should work well in your setup .

Good luck Metal

[Unclenick]

950 Tourer,

It sounds like you may have something accurate enough that 50 yards, other than initial zero roughing, isn't going to give you a lot of information.

The half grain increments are fine for checking for pressure signs, but at about 2% of load are about twice what I would use looking for minimum group sweet spots. Ideally, you want to find a load that is maximally accurate and works across a charge weight span of at least 0.5 grains so you don't have to fret small errors from the powder measure. Take a read through Dan Newberry's OCW system. Like all the load ladders, it will work most clearly at about 300 yards in zero wind conditions, but because the OCW runs three loads per charge weight it gives you resolution that can usually be figured out at 100 yards or at least get you very close there. An Auddette Ladder, with one shot per load level is really hard to see clear results from at under 300 yards, though Creighton Auddette himself used it at 200 with benchrest guns, IIRC, and Randolf Constantine was the one who suggested 300 was a lot better.

Both of the powders you are using are canister grade (tighter burn rate tolerance than bulk grade) versions of powders in the St. Mark's Western Cannon (WC) series. 748 is canister grade WC748 and H335 is canister grade WC844. In 1989, CCI reformulated their magnum primers for use with these powders. That includes both the CCI 450 and #41 primers for small rifle primer pockets, the latter being geared to AR's, specifically, as it has the military sensitivity spec. The powders in this series have a heavy deterrent coatings that are harder to light consistently with standard primers, though I have found I could do it if I first deburred flash holes and got the powder over the flash hole at firing. Absent that, they did not ignite as consistently with a standard primer as with the magnum primers.

If you have a chronograph, you can test to see which primers produces the most consistent ignition for you by seeing which one produces the lowest velocity SD. Critical to that is setting the bridge of the primers properly, which means pushing them in a couple thousandths past the point where the anvil feet touch the bottom of the primer pocket. In other words, seating them on the hard side.