How Fast Does A Flintlock Fire

kwhi43 · December 31, 2011, 02:46 PM

This is me 20 years ago shooting my Flintlock rifle. Some of you think there
is a delay in a Flintlock. Well the video is slowed down a little so you can see
it better. In actual use, it is faster than the video shows.

Jbar4Ranch · December 31, 2011, 03:31 PM

A properly tuned flintlock's lock time is virtually indistinguishable from a percussion gun to most shooters.

DrLaw · December 31, 2011, 08:09 PM

Properly done, a flintlock fires faster than a percussion gun because the hammer of a percussion gun has to get all the way down before the cap will fire, whereas the sparks will set off the pan charge, setting off the barrel charge before the hammer falls all the way.

The Doc is out now.

Gehrhard · December 31, 2011, 08:42 PM

A flintlock is faster than a caplock -- interesting opinion, however, I don't think that's right. 'course the pan has to ignite and then a hot gas jet has to find its way into the touch hole in a flintlock.

Let's see...

Watch particularly the second video on the first link...
http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featur...lock-movie.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzgVnH6uEP0

I know a caplock is significantly more reliable and shooters usually even intuitively feel they are faster which I am pretty sure is supported by the evidence. Flints even LOOK slow -- the pan is still igniting when the hammer is all the way down. I'm also pretty sure the relative locktimes have been well measured and someone else can go get that data...

In full disclosure I had a professional association with one of the parties represented in these videos.

dlbarr · January 1, 2012, 12:33 AM

Gehrhard, I agree that flinters CAN be slower. In no way do I agree that it's a foregone conclusion that they are, your videos and other shooters' intuitive feelings notwithstanding.

I actually agreed with you back when all I shot was my T/C Hawken with a replacement percussion lock from L&R - it is fast. But I bought a flintlock smoothbore from NorthStar West a few years back and that changed my mind altogether.

Granted, a flintlock MAY require more tuning than a caplock. But a properly tuned flinter loses absolutely nothing in ignition time to a percussion gun. And I've actually found the flinter to be more reliable than my caplock on occasion. Just FYI, the cap gun has the replacement lock, updated triggers and a replacement barrel from Green Mountain. So all the components there are very high quality. The flinter still easily performs neck-and-neck with it on ignition time.

DrLaw · January 1, 2012, 09:30 AM

That fire in the pan is a fast bugger when using 4FG, it will set off that main charge while the hammer is still falling. How do I know this? I read it here and on the internet, so it has to be true!

The Doc is out now, and Happy New Year to all here!

Gehrhard · January 1, 2012, 04:47 PM

You can lead a horse to water...

Percussion caplocks are SIGNIFICANTLY faster than flints. There is just no debate and really hasn't been for a few years now!

http://muzzleloadermag.infopop.cc/ev...91/m/274106511

Pletch's analysis' of '07, '09 and on (including his own recent summary and thesis defense here)

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fu...d/262480/tp/3/

were state of the art, comprehensive, well documented, and more than just peer reviewed. And back to my analogy, he had no horse in this race!

jimbob86 · January 1, 2012, 05:04 PM

Quote:

A properly tuned flintlock's lock time is virtually indistinguishable from a percussion gun to most shooters.

Guess mine needs a tuning.....

Clackfft-BOOM! is not exactly the sound a speedy rocksmasher makes.

philthephlier · January 2, 2012, 02:14 PM

will fire the load easily with the rifle held upside down and with a minimal amount of fine powder in the pan. Than means the powder is being ignited after falling out of the pan from gravity. That's pretty fast locktime. Many flinters, not properly tuned have a noticeable two stage ignition. A properly tuned lock cannot be heard that way. Just one loud crack.

December 31, 2011, 02:46 PM	#1
kwhi43 Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2008 Location: Kansas City Posts: 1,393	How Fast Does A Flintlock Fire This is me 20 years ago shooting my Flintlock rifle. Some of you think there is a delay in a Flintlock. Well the video is slowed down a little so you can see it better. In actual use, it is faster than the video shows. Last edited by kwhi43; December 31, 2011 at 03:53 PM.

December 31, 2011, 03:31 PM	#2
Jbar4Ranch Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Near Helena, Montana Posts: 1,719	A properly tuned flintlock's lock time is virtually indistinguishable from a percussion gun to most shooters. __________________ Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced... SASS 47015

December 31, 2011, 08:09 PM	#3
DrLaw Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2007 Location: Wild Western Illinois Posts: 559	Properly done, a flintlock fires faster than a percussion gun because the hammer of a percussion gun has to get all the way down before the cap will fire, whereas the sparks will set off the pan charge, setting off the barrel charge before the hammer falls all the way. The Doc is out now. __________________ General McAuliffe said it best "Nuts."

December 31, 2011, 08:42 PM	#4
Gehrhard Junior member Join Date: July 15, 2009 Location: East of the Missississippippi Posts: 675	A flintlock is faster than a caplock -- interesting opinion, however, I don't think that's right. 'course the pan has to ignite and then a hot gas jet has to find its way into the touch hole in a flintlock. Let's see... Watch particularly the second video on the first link... http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featur...lock-movie.php http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzgVnH6uEP0 I know a caplock is significantly more reliable and shooters usually even intuitively feel they are faster which I am pretty sure is supported by the evidence. Flints even LOOK slow -- the pan is still igniting when the hammer is all the way down. I'm also pretty sure the relative locktimes have been well measured and someone else can go get that data... In full disclosure I had a professional association with one of the parties represented in these videos. Last edited by Gehrhard; December 31, 2011 at 08:54 PM.

January 1, 2012, 12:33 AM	#5
dlbarr Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2011 Posts: 162	Gehrhard, I agree that flinters CAN be slower. In no way do I agree that it's a foregone conclusion that they are, your videos and other shooters' intuitive feelings notwithstanding. I actually agreed with you back when all I shot was my T/C Hawken with a replacement percussion lock from L&R - it is fast. But I bought a flintlock smoothbore from NorthStar West a few years back and that changed my mind altogether. Granted, a flintlock MAY require more tuning than a caplock. But a properly tuned flinter loses absolutely nothing in ignition time to a percussion gun. And I've actually found the flinter to be more reliable than my caplock on occasion. Just FYI, the cap gun has the replacement lock, updated triggers and a replacement barrel from Green Mountain. So all the components there are very high quality. The flinter still easily performs neck-and-neck with it on ignition time. Last edited by dlbarr; January 1, 2012 at 12:47 AM.

January 1, 2012, 09:30 AM	#6
DrLaw Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2007 Location: Wild Western Illinois Posts: 559	That fire in the pan is a fast bugger when using 4FG, it will set off that main charge while the hammer is still falling. How do I know this? I read it here and on the internet, so it has to be true! The Doc is out now, and Happy New Year to all here! __________________ General McAuliffe said it best "Nuts."

January 1, 2012, 04:47 PM	#7
Gehrhard Junior member Join Date: July 15, 2009 Location: East of the Missississippippi Posts: 675	The World Is Flat -- I Have Faith And Just Know It! You can lead a horse to water... Percussion caplocks are SIGNIFICANTLY faster than flints. There is just no debate and really hasn't been for a few years now! http://muzzleloadermag.infopop.cc/ev...91/m/274106511 Pletch's analysis' of '07, '09 and on (including his own recent summary and thesis defense here) http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fu...d/262480/tp/3/ were state of the art, comprehensive, well documented, and more than just peer reviewed. And back to my analogy, he had no horse in this race!

January 2, 2012, 02:14 PM	#9
philthephlier Member Join Date: May 12, 2009 Posts: 56	A well tuned flintlock...... will fire the load easily with the rifle held upside down and with a minimal amount of fine powder in the pan. Than means the powder is being ignited after falling out of the pan from gravity. That's pretty fast locktime. Many flinters, not properly tuned have a noticeable two stage ignition. A properly tuned lock cannot be heard that way. Just one loud crack. __________________ GRACE Gifts Received At Christ's Expense