Reloading for a Glock 21

johns7022 · April 29, 2010, 09:59 PM

So before I sell this gun, I thought I would take this to you guys, and maybe there is a fix out there...

I have a Gen 2 Glock 21, it will not reliably feed reloads, they usualy just jam up in there, not letting the slide go all the way forward...

Some history..when I first started reloading, I got alot of dented but unfired rounds, sent back to Glock for a refurb...I suspected the barrel/chamber allowed the round to far forward...G21 came back to Gen 3 specs, same barrel, same denting of primers...when a squib load bulged the barrel and Glock charged more for a barrel then Lone Wolf and Storm Lake, I bought a SM/LW barrel....light primer strikes went away...but I couldn't reliably feed reloads...

So I tried all sorts of crimp, OAL ideas, running 200 SWCs...and when finaly up against a wall, tried some 230s in lead...same issue, feed problems...

Keep in mind I can rack the slide just fine, it's when firing the gun is a problem, and also I have a new mag from Glock...figuring it might be the mag...

I also started running finished rounds through a case guage, chucked the questionable stuff...to no avail....

All stuck rounds, are removed and shot through a Para P14 with no issues...

I have run the crimps tight, run the bullets down low, I only run the brass after sizing that slips in and out of a case guage...any ideas?

shepherddogs · April 29, 2010, 10:20 PM

If they won't fully chamber it sounds like your crimp die may need adjustment. Check your outside diameter. Your bullets could be oversized. If you're shooting lead, you may need a smaller bullet sizer.

Shoney · April 29, 2010, 11:02 PM

When you load lead, do you seat and crimp in different operations?

If the lead bullet is moving down as the crimp is applied, it bites into the bullet, or shaves the lead. In either case the bullet/case are out of spec, and the bullet will not allow the cartridge to go into battery.

Seat the bullets with nocrimp, then in a seperate operation, apply a crimp just enough to remove the bell in the case.

jbcricket · April 30, 2010, 08:23 PM

i've been having a similar problem with my G21. I bought a LWD barrel so i could shoot lead bullets and hotter loads and right away i noticed several of my reloads would not chamber in the Lone Wolf barrel but they would chamber in the factory barrel. I cant figure out why because the measurements are all according to the book so it should chamber.I loaded a bunch of speer gdhp's and they worked fine but i had some hornady xtp's that wouldnt chamber and some berry's bonded bullets that wouldnt chamber either. I'm still pretty clueless on that one.
As far as your rounds not feeding i would guess its because of the much tighter chamber tolerances on the aftermarket barrels vs the factory barrel. Especially if you use bullets with a wide meplat.

Brian Pfleuger · April 30, 2010, 08:28 PM

My Lone Wolf barrels have considerably tighter chambers than does the stock Glock barrel but your dies should be producing ammo that will fit in any SAAMI spec chamber if they are adjusted properly.

Are you saying that you can manually chamber a round and it fits and fires fine but doesn't chamber the next round correctly after the shot?

If so, it sounds to me like you might need a lighter recoil spring or increase your powder charge (if possible in safe limits).

johns7022 · April 30, 2010, 09:47 PM

When I started running a case guage over finished reloads, some where tighter then others...the problem not being in the bullet or crimp but the sizing at the base....and in the Glock it's jamming up the round at the base...I use a Dillon 550B....

But remember, every single round that jammed up in the Glock, I put aside, then ran through my Para Ordinance P14 fine...and today, I ran ran 150 rds of 230 gn RN though the P14, knowing some, might be 'rejects' in the case guage, not one single problem, I was pretty happy...

It's possible I guess, with the G21, to go with new brass, and fireform all that brass only through the Glock, then highly polish that brass, maybe that would work...but it defeats the point of reloading...trying to keep the cost down...and besides, I just sick and tired of trying make it work...if the tolerances are that picky...etc ect, then this aint the combat gun I want that should I need this or that crappy mil .45 ammo, it won't run it...

One 'fix' might be to go with one of those 20lb recoil springs, hotter loads and basicaly slam those rounds in harder to seat fully...I have always felt the G21 17lb standard recoil spring was kinda weak....

The joke to the Glock thing is that compared to a nice 1911, it's loose as a goose, but if the chamber is too tight, that is where the Kabooms come from especialy if the round is slightly out, but firing pin can still hit the primer....

Brian Pfleuger · April 30, 2010, 10:26 PM

Your problem is more likely to be solved by a WEAKER spring than by a stronger one.

Being that loads with lead bullets are often well below max pressures for any given cartridge, it is likely that your loads are not powerful enough to fully cycle the gun. As such, a stronger spring would exacerbate the problem.

Increasing the powder charge may also solve the problem, if it is safe to do so, but increasing the charge AND increasing the spring weight will likely recreate the same problem at a higher charge.

If the rounds fit in the chamber by hand then it is almost certainly a problem of too much spring for too little "BANG!".

If I "ride the slide" on my G33 I can recreate the same problem that you're talking about.... with factory ammo. It looks like the slide just stopped for no reason. With the round (estimi-guessing here) 1/16 - 1/8 inch from being fully chambered. If I drop the slide full force like I'm supposed to, the rounds all chamber, fire and reload just fine, because they're strong enough to push the slide far enough back that between it's momentum and the spring force it will fully seat the next round.

Edward429451 · May 1, 2010, 10:49 AM

I mostly solved this same problem with my G21 and the 225gr LFP's that I was loading by seating them to 1.190
They mostly ran at that depth and the ones that didn't I would set aside and they would go through my Colt 1911 like a hot knife through butter.

johns7022 · May 1, 2010, 10:52 AM

A weak recoil spring is not a fix.....my loads lock the slide back, so it's going back as far as it can go...at that point the spring has to do the work of carrying the slide and fat 45 acp round back into battery...

I think I will try boring out the chamber a little and going to a heavier spring...I'll report back...

cryogenic419 · May 1, 2010, 06:13 PM

I have a G21 and I reload and I had some similiar problems in past. Read this once, came back to it and read again so here goes.

How are your gun cleaning habits? I know some say Glocks are supposed too be the AK's of the pistol world. Everything clean/lubed up where it really counts? One thing I never did until later on (and only after someone I knew pointed it out) was lube the the guide rod/spring. Started using some dry lube spray and while it was not some great lifechanging revelation, the gun did seem to function a little smoother.

Ever have any of these issues with factory ammo? I know...what self respecting reloader uses factory ammo. If the problem doesn't occur then that totally narrows down what could be going wrong.

Is your sizing die set up correctly for your press? Its basic but sometimes the most basic things being out of whack can cause the most complex problems.

How much are you belling the cases? This is where my biggest problem was when I got into reloading. Too much bell which I tried to "fix" later on with a hellacious crimp. Led me to some "some would load, some wouldn't" bullets which put me off of reloading for a while until someone showed me the light.

Crimping...some like to do seating and crimping in a single operation, some like to do it in 2 stages. Seems like there is less to go wrong by doing it seperately. Rounds failing to chamber completely make it sound like you might need just a touch more crimp, assuming everything else is good.

Pull the barrel out of the gun, load up a round, it should be able to drop right into the chamber. If not, yank out your micrometer and start measuring the loaded round and see where it is and isn't in spec.

I know some of those replacement barrels are a little tighter than factory which may require some minor modifications of your loadings. The load works with the Para .45 but not the Glock. If a few things are tweaked the load could be good for both. Sometimes a few hundreths of an inch can make all the difference in the world between something working flawlessly and jamming every other round.

johns7022 · May 2, 2010, 10:46 PM

Cryo - I read your post and tried all that....I am starting to understand why Glock designed unsupported chambers....

cryogenic419 · May 3, 2010, 04:43 AM

They are designed a little on the loose side but they will feed damn near every factory load on the planet right out of the box. Unfortunately that very same feature can cause some issues for reloaders later on down the road.

AlaskaMike · May 3, 2010, 10:22 AM

It might be worth trying a Lee Factory Crimp die. My Sig P220 has a slightly tighter chamber than my Springfield Mil-Spec, and sometimes the P220 wouldn't fully go into battery with my handloads, where the Mil-Spec would happily handle anything I'd throw at it. The Lee FC die solved all my problems with the P220.

I know that some don't like FC die, but in my case it works very well and I'm very happy with it.

Mike

m&p45acp10+1 · May 3, 2010, 06:58 PM

I agree with the suggestion of the Lee FCD. I have one for both of the semi-auto calibers I reload for. They make a world of differance.

WESHOOT2 · May 3, 2010, 09:27 PM

Can you provide your load data? Can you be VERY specific?

I have loaded for numerous M21s........

johns7022 · May 5, 2010, 01:02 PM

I load to spec, if the round fits into a 45 cal case guage easily...good to go...if you want to provide some specific measurements that you have found helps make a 45 acp round feed, I am all ears....

Taroman · May 5, 2010, 01:03 PM

I have loaded tons of .45ACP for my G30. Using the LEE 4-die set, I can easily set case dimensions to perfectly match a factory load. The case mouth O.D. is critical. The .45ACP headspaces on this. Not much to play whth there. Get a micrometer and carefully measure the case mouths of your reloads and of a factory load.

I also obtained a bunch of "range brass" in which some of the bases were really bulged. The LEE sizing die ironed these out, too. If you have the LEE carbide sizer, don't waste your $$ on the "Bulge Buster". I did. The instructions packed with it say it's not needed when cases are sized with their carbide die.

-My $0.03. As always, YMMV.

totaldla · May 5, 2010, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johns7022

I load to spec, if the round fits into a 45 cal case guage easily...good to go...if you want to provide some specific measurements that you have found helps make a 45 acp round feed, I am all ears....

Too short a COL will drop through a case gauge. Insufficient taper crimp, or an LSWC loaded with no shoulder exposed will all fall nicely through the gauge. But they won't feed reliably.

It would be nice to know what bullet profile, the COL, and load range - I run my hot LSWC's with a COL of 1.25" through a 3rd gen M21 (stock barrel) without a hitch. The exact same fodder I run through my 1911's.

MADISON · May 5, 2010, 03:12 PM

I have been reloading since 1970.
My Glock 21 Arrived on August 19, 1990.
What you need to do is to run the brass through the flareing die. It will remove the dent[s].

The FIRING LINE software still will not let me post on my new home computer. I must go to a library and use Wi-Fi on my laptop.

WESHOOT2 · May 8, 2010, 03:46 PM

Specific measurements are provided in data guides, so I was asking what you do.......(ramp angle of that Storm Lake, I betcha...).

Jim243 · May 9, 2010, 07:14 PM

Someone failed to read the Glock manual that says "DO NOT USE LEAD BULLETS IN THIS GUN!!!!!"

ljnowell · May 10, 2010, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Someone failed to read the Glock manual that says "DO NOT USE LEAD BULLETS IN THIS GUN!!!!!"

Lots of us shoot lead in glock barrels, and surprisingly, do not blow ourselves up. Its all about knowing what the hell you are doing.

I would lay dollars to donuts your current issue is the lonewolf barrel. Make a few dummy rounds, and sendthem and the barrel to lonewolf. They will re-machine the barrel and you will be good to go. This is a very common problem with lonewolf barrels. Go to www.glocktalk.com and hit the reloading forum there if you dont believe me.

April 29, 2010, 09:59 PM	#1
johns7022 Junior member Join Date: April 13, 2010 Posts: 94	Reloading for a Glock 21 So before I sell this gun, I thought I would take this to you guys, and maybe there is a fix out there... I have a Gen 2 Glock 21, it will not reliably feed reloads, they usualy just jam up in there, not letting the slide go all the way forward... Some history..when I first started reloading, I got alot of dented but unfired rounds, sent back to Glock for a refurb...I suspected the barrel/chamber allowed the round to far forward...G21 came back to Gen 3 specs, same barrel, same denting of primers...when a squib load bulged the barrel and Glock charged more for a barrel then Lone Wolf and Storm Lake, I bought a SM/LW barrel....light primer strikes went away...but I couldn't reliably feed reloads... So I tried all sorts of crimp, OAL ideas, running 200 SWCs...and when finaly up against a wall, tried some 230s in lead...same issue, feed problems... Keep in mind I can rack the slide just fine, it's when firing the gun is a problem, and also I have a new mag from Glock...figuring it might be the mag... I also started running finished rounds through a case guage, chucked the questionable stuff...to no avail.... All stuck rounds, are removed and shot through a Para P14 with no issues... I have run the crimps tight, run the bullets down low, I only run the brass after sizing that slips in and out of a case guage...any ideas?

April 29, 2010, 11:02 PM	#3
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	When you load lead, do you seat and crimp in different operations? If the lead bullet is moving down as the crimp is applied, it bites into the bullet, or shaves the lead. In either case the bullet/case are out of spec, and the bullet will not allow the cartridge to go into battery. Seat the bullets with nocrimp, then in a seperate operation, apply a crimp just enough to remove the bell in the case. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

April 30, 2010, 08:28 PM	#5
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	My Lone Wolf barrels have considerably tighter chambers than does the stock Glock barrel but your dies should be producing ammo that will fit in any SAAMI spec chamber if they are adjusted properly. Are you saying that you can manually chamber a round and it fits and fires fine but doesn't chamber the next round correctly after the shot? If so, it sounds to me like you might need a lighter recoil spring or increase your powder charge (if possible in safe limits). __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

April 30, 2010, 10:26 PM	#7
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Your problem is more likely to be solved by a WEAKER spring than by a stronger one. Being that loads with lead bullets are often well below max pressures for any given cartridge, it is likely that your loads are not powerful enough to fully cycle the gun. As such, a stronger spring would exacerbate the problem. Increasing the powder charge may also solve the problem, if it is safe to do so, but increasing the charge AND increasing the spring weight will likely recreate the same problem at a higher charge. If the rounds fit in the chamber by hand then it is almost certainly a problem of too much spring for too little "BANG!". If I "ride the slide" on my G33 I can recreate the same problem that you're talking about.... with factory ammo. It looks like the slide just stopped for no reason. With the round (estimi-guessing here) 1/16 - 1/8 inch from being fully chambered. If I drop the slide full force like I'm supposed to, the rounds all chamber, fire and reload just fine, because they're strong enough to push the slide far enough back that between it's momentum and the spring force it will fully seat the next round. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; April 30, 2010 at 10:32 PM.

May 3, 2010, 06:58 PM	#14
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	I agree with the suggestion of the Lee FCD. I have one for both of the semi-auto calibers I reload for. They make a world of differance. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

April 29, 2010, 10:20 PM	#2
shepherddogs Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Posts: 1,007	If they won't fully chamber it sounds like your crimp die may need adjustment. Check your outside diameter. Your bullets could be oversized. If you're shooting lead, you may need a smaller bullet sizer.

April 30, 2010, 08:23 PM	#4
jbcricket Member Join Date: April 28, 2009 Location: idaho Posts: 85	i've been having a similar problem with my G21. I bought a LWD barrel so i could shoot lead bullets and hotter loads and right away i noticed several of my reloads would not chamber in the Lone Wolf barrel but they would chamber in the factory barrel. I cant figure out why because the measurements are all according to the book so it should chamber.I loaded a bunch of speer gdhp's and they worked fine but i had some hornady xtp's that wouldnt chamber and some berry's bonded bullets that wouldnt chamber either. I'm still pretty clueless on that one. As far as your rounds not feeding i would guess its because of the much tighter chamber tolerances on the aftermarket barrels vs the factory barrel. Especially if you use bullets with a wide meplat.

April 30, 2010, 09:47 PM	#6
johns7022 Junior member Join Date: April 13, 2010 Posts: 94	When I started running a case guage over finished reloads, some where tighter then others...the problem not being in the bullet or crimp but the sizing at the base....and in the Glock it's jamming up the round at the base...I use a Dillon 550B.... But remember, every single round that jammed up in the Glock, I put aside, then ran through my Para Ordinance P14 fine...and today, I ran ran 150 rds of 230 gn RN though the P14, knowing some, might be 'rejects' in the case guage, not one single problem, I was pretty happy... It's possible I guess, with the G21, to go with new brass, and fireform all that brass only through the Glock, then highly polish that brass, maybe that would work...but it defeats the point of reloading...trying to keep the cost down...and besides, I just sick and tired of trying make it work...if the tolerances are that picky...etc ect, then this aint the combat gun I want that should I need this or that crappy mil .45 ammo, it won't run it... One 'fix' might be to go with one of those 20lb recoil springs, hotter loads and basicaly slam those rounds in harder to seat fully...I have always felt the G21 17lb standard recoil spring was kinda weak.... The joke to the Glock thing is that compared to a nice 1911, it's loose as a goose, but if the chamber is too tight, that is where the Kabooms come from especialy if the round is slightly out, but firing pin can still hit the primer....

May 1, 2010, 10:49 AM	#8
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I mostly solved this same problem with my G21 and the 225gr LFP's that I was loading by seating them to 1.190 They mostly ran at that depth and the ones that didn't I would set aside and they would go through my Colt 1911 like a hot knife through butter.

May 1, 2010, 10:52 AM	#9
johns7022 Junior member Join Date: April 13, 2010 Posts: 94	A weak recoil spring is not a fix.....my loads lock the slide back, so it's going back as far as it can go...at that point the spring has to do the work of carrying the slide and fat 45 acp round back into battery... I think I will try boring out the chamber a little and going to a heavier spring...I'll report back...

May 1, 2010, 06:13 PM	#10
cryogenic419 Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 569	I have a G21 and I reload and I had some similiar problems in past. Read this once, came back to it and read again so here goes. How are your gun cleaning habits? I know some say Glocks are supposed too be the AK's of the pistol world. Everything clean/lubed up where it really counts? One thing I never did until later on (and only after someone I knew pointed it out) was lube the the guide rod/spring. Started using some dry lube spray and while it was not some great lifechanging revelation, the gun did seem to function a little smoother. Ever have any of these issues with factory ammo? I know...what self respecting reloader uses factory ammo. If the problem doesn't occur then that totally narrows down what could be going wrong. Is your sizing die set up correctly for your press? Its basic but sometimes the most basic things being out of whack can cause the most complex problems. How much are you belling the cases? This is where my biggest problem was when I got into reloading. Too much bell which I tried to "fix" later on with a hellacious crimp. Led me to some "some would load, some wouldn't" bullets which put me off of reloading for a while until someone showed me the light. Crimping...some like to do seating and crimping in a single operation, some like to do it in 2 stages. Seems like there is less to go wrong by doing it seperately. Rounds failing to chamber completely make it sound like you might need just a touch more crimp, assuming everything else is good. Pull the barrel out of the gun, load up a round, it should be able to drop right into the chamber. If not, yank out your micrometer and start measuring the loaded round and see where it is and isn't in spec. I know some of those replacement barrels are a little tighter than factory which may require some minor modifications of your loadings. The load works with the Para .45 but not the Glock. If a few things are tweaked the load could be good for both. Sometimes a few hundreths of an inch can make all the difference in the world between something working flawlessly and jamming every other round.

May 2, 2010, 10:46 PM	#11
johns7022 Junior member Join Date: April 13, 2010 Posts: 94	Cryo - I read your post and tried all that....I am starting to understand why Glock designed unsupported chambers....

May 3, 2010, 04:43 AM	#12
cryogenic419 Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 569	They are designed a little on the loose side but they will feed damn near every factory load on the planet right out of the box. Unfortunately that very same feature can cause some issues for reloaders later on down the road.

May 3, 2010, 10:22 AM	#13
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	It might be worth trying a Lee Factory Crimp die. My Sig P220 has a slightly tighter chamber than my Springfield Mil-Spec, and sometimes the P220 wouldn't fully go into battery with my handloads, where the Mil-Spec would happily handle anything I'd throw at it. The Lee FC die solved all my problems with the P220. I know that some don't like FC die, but in my case it works very well and I'm very happy with it. Mike

May 3, 2010, 09:27 PM	#15
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	first things first Can you provide your load data? Can you be VERY specific? I have loaded for numerous M21s........ __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

May 5, 2010, 01:02 PM	#16
johns7022 Junior member Join Date: April 13, 2010 Posts: 94	I load to spec, if the round fits into a 45 cal case guage easily...good to go...if you want to provide some specific measurements that you have found helps make a 45 acp round feed, I am all ears....

May 5, 2010, 01:03 PM	#17
Taroman Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2010 Posts: 166	I have loaded tons of .45ACP for my G30. Using the LEE 4-die set, I can easily set case dimensions to perfectly match a factory load. The case mouth O.D. is critical. The .45ACP headspaces on this. Not much to play whth there. Get a micrometer and carefully measure the case mouths of your reloads and of a factory load. I also obtained a bunch of "range brass" in which some of the bases were really bulged. The LEE sizing die ironed these out, too. If you have the LEE carbide sizer, don't waste your $$ on the "Bulge Buster". I did. The instructions packed with it say it's not needed when cases are sized with their carbide die. -My $0.03. As always, YMMV. __________________ -jwk- Si vis pacem, para bellum

May 5, 2010, 03:12 PM	#19
MADISON Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2000 Location: Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 2,678	Reloading deted I have been reloading since 1970. My Glock 21 Arrived on August 19, 1990. What you need to do is to run the brass through the flareing die. It will remove the dent[s]. The FIRING LINE software still will not let me post on my new home computer. I must go to a library and use Wi-Fi on my laptop.

May 8, 2010, 03:46 PM	#20
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Specific measurements are provided in data guides, so I was asking what you do.......(ramp angle of that Storm Lake, I betcha...). __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

May 9, 2010, 07:14 PM	#21
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	Someone failed to read the Glock manual that says "DO NOT USE LEAD BULLETS IN THIS GUN!!!!!"