resizing problems with Dillon dies

able2ski · February 19, 2000, 06:23 PM

I'm using Dillon carbide pistol dies on a 550 press. I check my rounds after loading with a set of case gauges and separate the "bad" ones for practice use at the indoor range. I'm noticing that my "bad bag" is getting bigger & bigger with each reuse of the brass. Also the "bad" rounds used to feed & function fine, but now they are prone to causing action-locking jams.

After careful measuring, I found that the bad cases are slightly bulged near the base. The Dillon dies don't truly resize the whole case due to the flared mouth, so this bulging is never removed.

Do other die sets truly offer "full length resizing"? It may be worth getting another brand of sizing dies for my various calibers and run all my brass through them every couple firings. Other than my re-sizing problem, I can find no wrong with the Dillon equipment (well, maybe they could discount it!).

Any advice on brands? Am I on the right track? Any other suggestions?

I think I'm beginning to enjoy reloading almost as much as shooting!

Andrew

SVSUPER · February 19, 2000, 10:50 PM

You are going to have problems with all dies from different manufacturers. You can grind the base of your dies to get them to size down a little more, that wil help a little. If you want to get them sized all the way down look into a case pro. I'd be willing to bet you are loading 40 s&w from your glock. If you are glock are notorious for bulging cases at the bases due to their unsupported chambers.

WalterGAII · February 19, 2000, 11:46 PM

I've loaded 25,000+ rounds for my G21, and have never had a problem with bulged bases. I reload 'em until the necks split.

Your problem is with the caliber, not with the gun. Reloading .40 is just a Kb waiting to happen.

Walt Welch · February 20, 2000, 01:00 AM

IMHO, it is just not possible to truly full length resize a pistol case. Remember that some of the case is surrounded by the shell holder. Further, the sizing die has to be chamfered a little to center the case. Thus, the end of the sizing die doesn't really size (speaking here of straight walled pistol cases).

Even if you could accomplish this full length resizing, you would be really working the brass near the base of the cartridge.

I tend to agree with Walter GAII; you seem to have an accident waiting to happen. Walt

able2ski · February 20, 2000, 07:27 AM

My fault for not specifying caliber......It's NOT .40 though.

Currently, the worst of it is my lot of .45 brass. No, its not fired in a Glock, rather a Colt 1911.

I do have a 9mm Glock, but my lot of 9mm rejects is not growing nearly as fast as the .45 rejects. I just started reloading for my 10mm Glock, and expect to see some similar problems with this.

Someone mentioned a "case-pro".....what is it? Assuming its a tool to refurbish brass, what does it cost?

Andrew

Bill Mitchell · February 20, 2000, 11:02 AM

The Dillon resizing dies have a tapered carbide ring that,in theory,allows for a smoother operation in progressive presses. IMHO,this is a recipe for the bulging that you're seeing,as the top of the ring is closer together than the bottom of the ring,creating a funnel for the case to ride into as it is resized. I went back to my Lyman resizing die in my 550b after seeing to same bulging in .45 Colt cases. Also,the Lyman just seems smoother during resizing.

Bill

Skip · February 20, 2000, 11:53 AM

I have noticed exactly the same thing, in the same caliber ... slighly bulged brass near the head. However, I also noticed something else. One night I resized all the brass (in a Lee cheapo press, using a Lee die which I understand resizes somewhat better than the Dillon die). I then gauged all of the brass and threw away those that were bulged at the head. I reloaded the remaining brass and, uh-oh, the fraction of bulged brass after reloading remained roughly the same. In other words, even starting with brass that is not bulged after resizing ... some of the rounds end up being bulged in the process of charging, seating, and crimping. My suspicion is that the head has become weakend from multiple firings and the force of seating and crimping is sufficient to cause the head to bulge slightly. Interesting. I'm not aware that case head separation is much of a problem in .45 (since the neck tends to split first) but I wonder if this phenomenon indicates the process through which a case head failure would eventually occur.
Skip

johnnybravo · February 21, 2000, 05:23 AM

I have been reloading my 45 acp on a dillon 450 jr B press for 9 years. I always ran that ammo thru my Springfield 1911, which still has the factory barrel, without a hitch. Last spring, I picked up a S&W model 625, and Lo & Behold! Two thirds of my ammo wouldn't even chamber in the Smith. I broke down bought a Dillon chamber gauge, 2/3 of my ammo wouldn't fit in it. I got a set of new RCBS 45 dies, put them in my 550, and presto, those rounds would chamber just fine in the Smith and fit in the chamber gauge.
I figure the Smith has tighter chambers than a factory 1911, but the rounds loaded on the Dillon dies won't even fit in a Dillon gauge.

CrowShooter · February 21, 2000, 12:23 PM

Andrew,

I had similar problems with my .45 rounds when I was shooting 230 and 255 gr. lead, but only in certain brands of brass. The 255's would not chamber if used in Federal cases. So, I was forced to separate that brass from the other. The S&B stuff was the same way. You may want to contact Lee and get a Lee undersize die from them. I think they make it for .45, but am not 100% sure. This replaces your Dillon sizing die. They don't have enough thread on them to use the lock ring, but just drill and tap the toolhead and run a setscrew in to lock the U-die in place. I use Lee's u-die on my 550 for Super and .40.

CS

nwgunman · February 22, 2000, 01:50 PM

Strange thread here guys. I've been reloading on my Dillons (a SDB and a 550B) for many years and have had "the bulge" problem with .40 brass from my Glocks (before installing after-market barrels) but not the brass from my S&Ws. No problems with "the bulge" from .45ACP or 9mm. Hmmm. I have experienced the problem reported by Skip: a resized case fits the gauge just fine but after seating and crimping is a no-go. I was thinking the bullet somehow didn't seating just right and deformed the case while being rammed down. As I have mentioned previously, I have had NO kBs after reloading thousands of .40 rounds. But I have never shot lead in my .40s. Stay safe.

Walt Welch · February 22, 2000, 09:17 PM

I have reloaded thousands of rounds of .45 ACP on my Dillon Square Deal B. I have fired this ammo in several different 1911's, two different S&W autos, and a S&W 625. Most loads nearly or at full power. Not a single problem.

Walt

Banzai · February 22, 2000, 09:56 PM

I've seen all of the problems mentioned above, and bulging brass of anything other than a 40 seems to be a problem most closely associated with Dillon dies. I use Lee dies, and always run my ammo through a Lee Factory Crimp die of the appropriate caliber before final inspection and gaugeing. The assumption that the area before the case head gets weak from repeated bulging, pressure (firing), resizing, belling, and seating, seems to hold true. Most of my brass ends up "Unrecoverable" in front of the firing line before it ever gets a chance to degrade on me, but I have seem it on older brass used by friends.
I get to see a lot of reloads here, with many of them being produced on Dillon 650/SDB and Lee equipment. Almost eveyone that I know uses a Lee crimp as the final stage before final check. Never any problems.

But it does sound like you're having a gun problem that bears looking into, as well. 45 shouldn't bulge brass.

Tom

------------------
A "Miss" is the ultimate overpenetration!

exiled · February 25, 2000, 10:02 PM

WalterGAII,

You fail to state that you have already blown up one G21 while reloading for it,and that you don't own a 40sw pistol so you shouldn't make slanderous comments about that caliber either!

pingun.45 · February 27, 2000, 03:32 AM

Had the same problem in .40SW. Get Lee dies and use the resizer. Then get a Factory taper crimp die and that should make all of your rounds chamber.
DC

Patrick Graham · February 27, 2000, 07:54 AM

Here's a quote from the instructions that came with my Redding Titanium 9mm dies which I bought because my 9mm brass had a bulge on the bottom that I thought was being caused by my dillion dies.

"IMPORTANT NOTE
Carbide pistol dies are not designed to full length size cases. Adjust the die to size only the portion of the of the case that has been expanded during firing. On somecases an undersirable ring or belt may appear near the base if the sizing die is incorrectly adjusted. This may weaken the case and is not desirable"

I went into shock when I read this. I've been full length resizing 9mm and 38 for years, and getting a bulge at the base for years.

10mmrules · March 1, 2000, 12:48 PM

if you are using range brass, you will find some brands are totaly garbage for reloading. I have had problems with the brass headstamped as "amerc", and "fc 98".

WalterGAII · March 2, 2000, 10:17 PM

I also didn't blow up a G21 while firing .45 ammo. Blew it up by firing a .400 Cor-Bon that I'd let setback, after jamming on the feed ramp. .400 Cor-Bon won't feed from double-stack magazines. My Kb had nothing to do with either the caliber or the design of the aftermarket barrel or the gun. It was the mags and my mistake in firing a setback round.

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February 19, 2000, 06:23 PM	#1
able2ski Member Join Date: January 24, 2000 Posts: 35	I'm using Dillon carbide pistol dies on a 550 press. I check my rounds after loading with a set of case gauges and separate the "bad" ones for practice use at the indoor range. I'm noticing that my "bad bag" is getting bigger & bigger with each reuse of the brass. Also the "bad" rounds used to feed & function fine, but now they are prone to causing action-locking jams. After careful measuring, I found that the bad cases are slightly bulged near the base. The Dillon dies don't truly resize the whole case due to the flared mouth, so this bulging is never removed. Do other die sets truly offer "full length resizing"? It may be worth getting another brand of sizing dies for my various calibers and run all my brass through them every couple firings. Other than my re-sizing problem, I can find no wrong with the Dillon equipment (well, maybe they could discount it!). Any advice on brands? Am I on the right track? Any other suggestions? I think I'm beginning to enjoy reloading almost as much as shooting! Andrew

February 19, 2000, 10:50 PM	#2
SVSUPER Member Join Date: February 3, 2000 Posts: 30	You are going to have problems with all dies from different manufacturers. You can grind the base of your dies to get them to size down a little more, that wil help a little. If you want to get them sized all the way down look into a case pro. I'd be willing to bet you are loading 40 s&w from your glock. If you are glock are notorious for bulging cases at the bases due to their unsupported chambers.

February 19, 2000, 11:46 PM	#3
WalterGAII Junior member Join Date: November 7, 1999 Posts: 1,516	I've loaded 25,000+ rounds for my G21, and have never had a problem with bulged bases. I reload 'em until the necks split. Your problem is with the caliber, not with the gun. Reloading .40 is just a Kb waiting to happen.

February 20, 2000, 01:00 AM	#4
Walt Welch Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 1998 Location: Alamo, CA Posts: 424	IMHO, it is just not possible to truly full length resize a pistol case. Remember that some of the case is surrounded by the shell holder. Further, the sizing die has to be chamfered a little to center the case. Thus, the end of the sizing die doesn't really size (speaking here of straight walled pistol cases). Even if you could accomplish this full length resizing, you would be really working the brass near the base of the cartridge. I tend to agree with Walter GAII; you seem to have an accident waiting to happen. Walt

February 20, 2000, 07:27 AM	#5
able2ski Member Join Date: January 24, 2000 Posts: 35	My fault for not specifying caliber......It's NOT .40 though. Currently, the worst of it is my lot of .45 brass. No, its not fired in a Glock, rather a Colt 1911. I do have a 9mm Glock, but my lot of 9mm rejects is not growing nearly as fast as the .45 rejects. I just started reloading for my 10mm Glock, and expect to see some similar problems with this. Someone mentioned a "case-pro".....what is it? Assuming its a tool to refurbish brass, what does it cost? Andrew

February 20, 2000, 11:02 AM	#6
Bill Mitchell Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: Roswell,GA Posts: 433	The Dillon resizing dies have a tapered carbide ring that,in theory,allows for a smoother operation in progressive presses. IMHO,this is a recipe for the bulging that you're seeing,as the top of the ring is closer together than the bottom of the ring,creating a funnel for the case to ride into as it is resized. I went back to my Lyman resizing die in my 550b after seeing to same bulging in .45 Colt cases. Also,the Lyman just seems smoother during resizing. Bill

February 20, 2000, 11:53 AM	#7
Skip Member Join Date: November 22, 1998 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 34	I have noticed exactly the same thing, in the same caliber ... slighly bulged brass near the head. However, I also noticed something else. One night I resized all the brass (in a Lee cheapo press, using a Lee die which I understand resizes somewhat better than the Dillon die). I then gauged all of the brass and threw away those that were bulged at the head. I reloaded the remaining brass and, uh-oh, the fraction of bulged brass after reloading remained roughly the same. In other words, even starting with brass that is not bulged after resizing ... some of the rounds end up being bulged in the process of charging, seating, and crimping. My suspicion is that the head has become weakend from multiple firings and the force of seating and crimping is sufficient to cause the head to bulge slightly. Interesting. I'm not aware that case head separation is much of a problem in .45 (since the neck tends to split first) but I wonder if this phenomenon indicates the process through which a case head failure would eventually occur. Skip

February 21, 2000, 05:23 AM	#8
johnnybravo Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2000 Posts: 100	I have been reloading my 45 acp on a dillon 450 jr B press for 9 years. I always ran that ammo thru my Springfield 1911, which still has the factory barrel, without a hitch. Last spring, I picked up a S&W model 625, and Lo & Behold! Two thirds of my ammo wouldn't even chamber in the Smith. I broke down bought a Dillon chamber gauge, 2/3 of my ammo wouldn't fit in it. I got a set of new RCBS 45 dies, put them in my 550, and presto, those rounds would chamber just fine in the Smith and fit in the chamber gauge. I figure the Smith has tighter chambers than a factory 1911, but the rounds loaded on the Dillon dies won't even fit in a Dillon gauge.

February 21, 2000, 12:23 PM	#9
CrowShooter Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Posts: 44	Andrew, I had similar problems with my .45 rounds when I was shooting 230 and 255 gr. lead, but only in certain brands of brass. The 255's would not chamber if used in Federal cases. So, I was forced to separate that brass from the other. The S&B stuff was the same way. You may want to contact Lee and get a Lee undersize die from them. I think they make it for .45, but am not 100% sure. This replaces your Dillon sizing die. They don't have enough thread on them to use the lock ring, but just drill and tap the toolhead and run a setscrew in to lock the U-die in place. I use Lee's u-die on my 550 for Super and .40. CS

February 22, 2000, 01:50 PM	#10
nwgunman Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 1999 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 312	Strange thread here guys. I've been reloading on my Dillons (a SDB and a 550B) for many years and have had "the bulge" problem with .40 brass from my Glocks (before installing after-market barrels) but not the brass from my S&Ws. No problems with "the bulge" from .45ACP or 9mm. Hmmm. I have experienced the problem reported by Skip: a resized case fits the gauge just fine but after seating and crimping is a no-go. I was thinking the bullet somehow didn't seating just right and deformed the case while being rammed down. As I have mentioned previously, I have had NO kBs after reloading thousands of .40 rounds. But I have never shot lead in my .40s. Stay safe.

February 22, 2000, 09:17 PM	#11
Walt Welch Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 1998 Location: Alamo, CA Posts: 424	I have reloaded thousands of rounds of .45 ACP on my Dillon Square Deal B. I have fired this ammo in several different 1911's, two different S&W autos, and a S&W 625. Most loads nearly or at full power. Not a single problem. Walt

February 22, 2000, 09:56 PM	#12
Banzai Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Posts: 275	I've seen all of the problems mentioned above, and bulging brass of anything other than a 40 seems to be a problem most closely associated with Dillon dies. I use Lee dies, and always run my ammo through a Lee Factory Crimp die of the appropriate caliber before final inspection and gaugeing. The assumption that the area before the case head gets weak from repeated bulging, pressure (firing), resizing, belling, and seating, seems to hold true. Most of my brass ends up "Unrecoverable" in front of the firing line before it ever gets a chance to degrade on me, but I have seem it on older brass used by friends. I get to see a lot of reloads here, with many of them being produced on Dillon 650/SDB and Lee equipment. Almost eveyone that I know uses a Lee crimp as the final stage before final check. Never any problems. But it does sound like you're having a gun problem that bears looking into, as well. 45 shouldn't bulge brass. Tom ------------------ A "Miss" is the ultimate overpenetration!

February 25, 2000, 10:02 PM	#13
exiled Member Join Date: February 13, 2000 Posts: 26	WalterGAII, You fail to state that you have already blown up one G21 while reloading for it,and that you don't own a 40sw pistol so you shouldn't make slanderous comments about that caliber either!

February 27, 2000, 03:32 AM	#14
pingun.45 Junior Member Join Date: November 3, 1999 Location: iowa city,ia usa Posts: 14	Had the same problem in .40SW. Get Lee dies and use the resizer. Then get a Factory taper crimp die and that should make all of your rounds chamber. DC

February 27, 2000, 07:54 AM	#15
Patrick Graham Junior member Join Date: January 18, 1999 Location: Kokomo, Indiana USA Posts: 674	Here's a quote from the instructions that came with my Redding Titanium 9mm dies which I bought because my 9mm brass had a bulge on the bottom that I thought was being caused by my dillion dies. "IMPORTANT NOTE Carbide pistol dies are not designed to full length size cases. Adjust the die to size only the portion of the of the case that has been expanded during firing. On somecases an undersirable ring or belt may appear near the base if the sizing die is incorrectly adjusted. This may weaken the case and is not desirable" I went into shock when I read this. I've been full length resizing 9mm and 38 for years, and getting a bulge at the base for years.

March 1, 2000, 12:48 PM	#16
10mmrules Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 1999 Posts: 140	if you are using range brass, you will find some brands are totaly garbage for reloading. I have had problems with the brass headstamped as "amerc", and "fc 98".

March 2, 2000, 10:17 PM	#17
WalterGAII Junior member Join Date: November 7, 1999 Posts: 1,516	I also didn't blow up a G21 while firing .45 ammo. Blew it up by firing a .400 Cor-Bon that I'd let setback, after jamming on the feed ramp. .400 Cor-Bon won't feed from double-stack magazines. My Kb had nothing to do with either the caliber or the design of the aftermarket barrel or the gun. It was the mags and my mistake in firing a setback round.