uberti 1858 barrel problem

[Hardy]

I have an 1858 uberti cast frame w/ conversion cylinder. Nice gun!

After shooting 20 or 30 rounds of cowboy load 45's , one round went POOF.

I broke the gun down and saw a lead ring arond the front of one chamber of the cylinder but after minimal cleaning it looked fine. I just recently decided to polish it and noticed a small bulge 1 inch from the cylinder on the left and right slants from the top of the oc barrel. You wouldn,t notice it unless you ran your finger across both sides. I am going to send it to the gunsmith and get a new barrel. I am now wondering what happened but if I hadn't checked it it might explde next time. I now wonder about why the barrel heated up(or what did it do) to form those small bubbles and I wonder about the safety of these cylinders . Please be careful w/ these coversions or am I just paranoid

WBH

[Hardy]

Wait let me clarify. It was one inch up the barrel not from the cylinder and I didn't shoot those many rounds that day--mabe 7. I only shot 20 or 30 since Ive owned the gun for maybe 2 years.

Thank you

WBH

[James K]

It sounds like one of your bullets didn't make it out of the barrel and the next one stopped on the obstruction and caused the barrel to bulge.

Jim

[Hardy]

I believe you might be right James. I thought when the bullet went poof. I checked the barrel. Maybe it flashed too hot too quick before it exited with nopunch. Is that possible?

[Hardy]

After several private conversations it is what I always thought--conversion cylinders for these guns are dangerous. Buy a colt/ruger etc that handles metalic cartridges. If you have a bp gun w/ conversion then just keep it for home protection. If I didn't know some bit of these things I would have shot it again and maybe not be around anymore. HA maybe some of you would have liked that--just kidding... hopefully? I want use them anymore but I never used them much it just so happened what could have happened a lot worse with my desire to shoot a few rounds. Im glad I wasn't injured.

WBH

[Beagle333]

I did a search and couldn't find any info on conversion cylinders causing barrel bulge. I hope it isn't common. I got one and was under the impression that cowboy loads are safe to use.

[Hardy]

OK I would buy a blackhawk or a colt that costs more than 600 to shoot bulletrs

BP guns need no more than 23 to 24 grains of pyrodex in a 36

30 to 32grains in a 44

after shooting a cowboy load plese check your barrel and cylinder and be meticulous about it. They are legal and you be careful

[SIGSHR]

Squib loads are a hazard of the sport, especially reloads. If these were factory loads I would contact the manufacturer.

[44 Dave]

What you had was a "squib" followed by a good load. The bulge is a result of the stuck bullet getting pushed out by the next round.
Several years ago I thought I had a bad cap, but the ball only went part way and the next one fired. The barrel has the slightest bulge, almost need to need a micrometer. I still shoot it and it doesn't seem it effect any thing.
The lesson= Ever have a round that doesn't sound right fire no more till you check the barrel.

[TemboTusk]

After several private conversations it is what I always thought--conversion cylinders for these guns are dangerous.

You can't be serious?!

No disrespect intended, however I can't imagine your conversion cylinder had anything to do with the bulge in the barrel unless you want to consider a squib round the conversion cylinder's fault. And that could happen with any firearm regardless of it being a cartridge revolver, semi-auto or rifle.

[maillemaker]

The lesson= Ever have a round that doesn't sound right fire no more till you check the barrel.

Yup! I have only ever had one squib - was shooting my old 1904 .32 S&W revolver and one shot sounded funny, and smoke tendrils lazily drifted up from the face of the cylinder.

I popped the cylinder and sure enough, there was a bullet wedged down the barrel. If I had fired a second shot, it might have been bad.

Every time I'm at a range and here someone pulling the trigger as fast as they can to unload a firearm like Hollywood I think about that.

Steve

[Hardy]

I was in a dark room designed for a recording studio but has adequate ventalsion. When the gun went poof-I rolled out the cylinder and checked the barrel and it appeared clear so I finished out the remaing 2 rounds. It might be possible that the bullet split and left extra lead coating in the rifling and inside the barrel that caused the other 2 shots w/ unseen obstruiction. But I did not rapid fire it.

[Hardy]

i think when i posted about an old confederate revolver blowing up--that is what happened---stuck ball.

[Hardy]

I am confused. I looked through a pietta manual and it said to use only 17 grains of pyrodex in a 36 and 28 in a 44 but you can use 22 in a 36 and 32 of real bp. Since I shot one -I remember the 36 spouts on a colt flask did not give enough for a good fire. Isn,t 17 grains not enough? Is that what the flask spout holds. I no longer have a powder measure since i liquidated my store but I always used 38 special spent shell to load 36 navys. I think they held around 23 to 24 grains of pyrodex. WAs I using too much? Or the manual is just covering their a..

[robhof]

The new manuals are bowing to the lawyers. Load data from 20 yr old manuals are much more liberal than todays manuals. With real b/p it would be next to impossible to overcharge a revolver cylinder, after all they will only hold a specific amount of powder to properly seat a projectile!

[Hardy]

There used to be a magazine called Black Powder and I remember they never said how much BP to put in them. Why would pyrodex be more volutle or powerful than the real stuff? I always thought a 38 spent shell was great for 36 and a 45 long colt was a good measure for a 44. But as a lot of our members know--I'm still learning---I'm going to send that 1858 to Tom at Taylors w/ notes and get him to put on a new barrel. It was a uberti w/ case hardened frame. And I put the conversion cylinder away

[Hardy]

And one other thought and I'll leave you alone. Before 1873 conversion cylinders and tooled conversions were made but they still shot only bp. Even the colt preacemaker was shooting BP. The guns today have a superior quality of steel and better tooling to handle metallic cartridges. Buy a quality one.

wbh

[Hawg]

IMO Pyrodex is not quite as strong. I use 25 grains of both Pyro and Swiss in .36's and 30 in .44's.

[45 Dragoon]

I'm sorry but this is the biggest bunch of hogwash I've ever heard!!
The modern cylinders are as fine as a modern revolver. The barrels are capable of handling jacketed ammo. The rest of the gun is for support. The steel is better than the iron the original 1873 SAAs (a cartridge gun, fairly famous).
The frame doesn't know it's a frame, the barrel doesn't know it's a barrel and believe it or not, the cylinder doesn't know it's a cylinder!!! Yet a "cartridge " gun is somehow "better " at shooting cartridge ammo than a re-fitted c&b gun?
Because someone had a squib load suddenly all of those type guns are " not safe"?!!!

Were there other people involved in these "conversations" or was it you talking to yourself!!?
Somebody !! Quick!! Tell Kirst they need to shut down . . . . . somebody shot a squib load!!!!

GIVE ME A BREAK !!!!

Just for the record, I've never shot anything less than "normal" factory loads and my own loads are not even close to anemic. All my c&b revolvers are converted and have been for years with outstanding performance (of course i havent told them they're conversions!!)

[Hardy]

Why do say this is hawgwash. The new guns have been designed with better steel, engineering and tech advanced by learned knowledge.I was trying to say what people think is safe lookback at 2 year old post of a pietta conversion cylinder that blew up on the left side--it is there

[45 Dragoon]

Ive said all im going to on this. Not going to argue with a brick! (Even ignorant ones)

[MJN77]

lookback at 2 year old post of a pietta conversion cylinder that blew up on the left side--it is there

Are you referring to this?
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...rsion+cylinder
The owner posted on several "cowboy" forums too. Figured out he probably double charged his smokeless reloads. That's a problem with the ammo not the revolver. Would've blown up a modern gun too. A squib can happen in any gun. Even a cap & ball revolver. I had one once in a Uberti 1862 police revolver. Bulged the barrel too. Had that gun for years after and put God knows how many more shots through it before I sold it. Like 45 Dragoon said, modern cap & ball guns are made of better steel than "old west" cartridge guns were in the 1800s. I imagine that since R&D and Kirst have been making "drop in" conversion cylinders, thousands of folks have bought and enjoyed them. I have read about only a couple of blow ups, and both were due to reloading errors that would've done the same to any modern gun. So to claim that the cylinders are now "dangerous" because you had a squib, which is an ammo problem not a gun problem, is a pretty ignorant.

And I put the conversion cylinder away

If you're afraid of your conversion cylinder now, you're better off selling it and making some of your $$ back.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I agree, this is hogwash. Modern conversion cylinders are made of arsenal grade 4150 and 4140 steel. This is better steel than is used for the cylinders and barrels of most replica C&B revolvers.





These cylinders are proofed for mild Smokeless Cowboy loads. You would be hard pressed to blow one up with a Black Powder load. Firing a round after lodging a bullet in the bore is an entirely different matter. Create a barrel obstruction and all bets are off. If a round doesn't sound right, it probably wasn't. Don't just peek down the barrel, drop a rod down to make sure the bore is clear. I shoot my 45 Schofield rounds in my 1858 Remmies with their conversion cylinders all the time. I usually limit them to about 28 grains of FFg and a 200 grain bullet, but if I wanted to I would have no problem shooting 45 Colt with 35 grains of FFg and a 250 grain bullet.

[bedbugbilly]

Without getting in to the midst of the "fray" here . . .

Hardy - you say you were shooting "cowboy loads" but unless I missed it, I don't see you telling exactly what you are shooting? Was this ammo that you loaded? BP or smokeless?

It sounds to me like you had a "squib" and just didn't catch it - that can happen with any handgun. If you were shooting rounds that you loaded . . . what are the chances that you had an empty casing with no powder in it? Just the pressure from a primer going off will shove a lead bullet into the bore but not out.

I agree with the fact that these conversions are not "dangerous" . . . . the only danger is the "driver behind the wheel". . . and I don't mean that as criticism of you. If you are shooting reloads that you have done - that's why it is important to check your casings . . . both for no powder and well as a double charge. When firing, it's important to keep alert and notice such things as a weak charge, no recoil or reduced recoil, etc. and if there is any doubt, stop and check. Going from a "conversion" to a regular revolver that is designed front he get go for metallic cartridges is not going to take care of the problems of squib loads . . . only the shooter can prevent a problem if it happens.

[DD4lifeusmc]

the barrels of these guns are NOT made for shooting jacketed slugs.
These barrels are much softer steel than modern ones.
Neither Pietta or Uberti recommend jacketed.
Nor a very hard cast lead.
Why do you think all their manuals indicate PURE LEAD?????????

Yes the conversion cylinders are tougher, But they for most part do not recommend pressures to exceed, I think, 12,000 PSI.

Even a mild powder in a 45 colt / long colt can exceed that pressure.

Remember with higher pressure comes an initial higher velocity.

The barrels are NOT designed for that high velocity. Because you have to remember friction is involved.

And these frames while better steel than 160 yr ago still are not as strong as those of modern smokeless powder cartridge guns.
They don't have to be, as they were designed to stand up under the pressures
and recoil of BP or a sub.
Can you shoot the conversion? yeah. Can you get away with a mild smokeless in the conversion in the BP gun. Yeah.
All the way up until the next one was one too many.
You want to shoot 45 colt / long colt?
Go ahead. But buy a gun designed to handle that loading to begin with.
That or have a damn good insurance policy for when something does go wrong.
Me I would not want to be standing next to you at a range, when that cylinder decided to let go.