Partial Reloading of 7.62x54R Surplus Ammo?

[RamSlammer]

Somehow or another I seem to have 6 spam cans of the copper-washed steel cased x54 surplus ammo which have accumulated as well as several Mosin's which I swear seem to breed while in the gun safe. A couple of these shoot really well.

My wacky idea is to pull a few hundred rounds of the surplus ammo, dump the powder and bullets, neck size the cases then fill with good modern powder topped with a good bullet set to OAL's based on where the rifling begins in each rifle.

My question is has anyone done this and with what success? Basically am I on a fool's errand or not?

[Sevens]

I don't think there is any problem with what you want to do... but in my opinion, you are still left with a corrosive primer and no way to de-prime and re-prime, and that's the bummer.

But that's just where you are with some of these surplus rifles. Kind of goes with the territory. If you had access to some boxer primed brass (does anyone even make it in this caliber?) then you'd be best off just reclaiming the bullets.

Either way, this calls for a press mounted bullet puller like the Hornady Cam-Lock rather than a hammer puller.

But yeah, I think it's a good idea, if you want to put in the work.

[T. O'Heir]

Steel cases are not reloadable. Mild steel is not elastic like brass is. Even just neck sizing, might, I say again might damage your die. Good 7.62 x 54R brass isn't expensive nor hard to get.
"...several Mosin's..." You'd have to work up a load for each one.

[qcpunk]

I think O'Heir is on track here. I think you might do more damage to your sizing die and the cases than it would be worth. I also have a few of the Russian surplus sardine cans with the copper washed, LPS (steel core) ammo. I just use those for plinkin. My mosin shoots great, tack driver and every distance i've shot it so far. I will also begin to develope my own load, but I already plan on just buying some empty cases or maybe a few boxes of loaded ammo to shoot for casings.

[RamSlammer]

Well, from what I can determine, it would be almost as cheap to buy some brass, boxer-primed Privi-Partisan Serbian ammo and use those cases than to get new brass itself. If the steel will ruin the die then the cost suddenly escalates so that getting brass cases is worth it.

Only reason I am on this hunt is that one of the Finn 39's and a Russian Hex 91/30 are getting great groups with the surplus stuff and I'd like to see what they're actually capable of with some "real" ammo. Probably need to slug the bores and get a read on bullet diameter as well.

[Jim243]

RamSlammer

Good idea, but just use up the surplus ammo and buy some BRASS cases for your specials. Steel will ruin your dies.

Jim

[snuffy]

Steel cases are not reloadable. Mild steel is not elastic like brass is. Even just neck sizing, might, I say again might damage your die. Good 7.62 x 54R brass isn't expensive nor hard to get.
"...several Mosin's..." You'd have to work up a load for each one.
qcpunk
Member
I think O'Heir is on track here. I think you might do more damage to your sizing die and the cases than it would be worth. I also have a few of the Russian surplus sardine cans with the copper washed, LPS (steel core) ammo. I just use those for plinkin. My mosin shoots great, tack driver and every distance i've shot it so far. I will also begin to develope my own load, but I already plan on just buying some empty cases or maybe a few boxes of loaded ammo to shoot for casings.

RamSlammer

Good idea, but just use up the surplus ammo and buy some BRASS cases for your specials. Steel will ruin your dies.

Jim

Well, I see the amateur metallurgists are in fine form today! Dies are hardened tool steel. Steel cartridges are soft mild steel. The steel cases will do nothing to your dies.

Slammer, I've done just what you're talking about. When I bought my 91/30 last November, all they had for ammo was wolf steel cases with a heavy "soft nosed" steel cased bullet. I simply pulled those magnetic steel bullets, dumped the powder, loaded a starting charge of 4895 under some 150 .308 bullets. The steel cases didn't get loose when the .308 original bullets were pulled, so the replacement bullets fit nice and tight. I was just blasting with no attempt to bench rest the rifle, was just getting used to it. It shot well enough, and used those non reloadable steel, berdan primed cases.

I've been able to find some winchester "metric" loads, sporting a .311 FMJ bullet. I bought 2 boxes from midway, along with dies and some 312 hornady bullets meant for the 303 brit. A local gunshow brought me some 50 round bags of factory primed new winchester brass, so I have 140 rounds of good reloadable brass.

My 91 slugs at .312, so I'm stuck buying just a couple of jacketed bullets. I'm also casting some bullets from a lee mold made for the 7.62 X 39, it makes a .312 as cast diameter. Once the spring thaw is over, and the range road is passable, I'll get to try them out.

[RamSlammer]

Hmmm. . . Think I'm gonna try a few today and just keep an eye on the dies. I have 200 of the 150 gr. Hornady InterLock Spire point bullets in .312 diameter from when I loaded for an Enfield. Varget is the powder I have around which I see data for and will probably start at about 42 gr. and work up to 47. Unfortunately, I won't be able to shoot them for about 3 weeks though.

[snuffy]

Slammer. just be sure to back off the deprime stem, to prevent the primer punch from being bent or broken.

I don't think there is any problem with what you want to do... but in my opinion, you are still left with a corrosive primer and no way to de-prime and re-prime, and that's the bummer.

Sevens, in my situation, these were recent manufacture, so the primers were/are not corrosive. Slammer will have to make sure he cleans with a water based solvent IF the ammo is corrosive primed anyway, so just replacing the powder and a better bullet will do no more harm than just shooting the ammo as-is.

[qcpunk]

Well, I see the amateur metallurgists are in fine form today! Dies are hardened tool steel. Steel cartridges are soft mild steel. The steel cases will do nothing to your dies.

Gee, I dont remember reading anything above that even implied being a metallurgist. If you have resized steel cases in your die with no problems then gold star for you. However, you wont catch me getting a steel case anywhere near my reloading bench. That is my opinion, and I believe the OP was asking for people's opinion.

[noelf2]

Has anyone here ever seen a "neck sizing" die ruined by sizing metallic cases? Just curious if this is one of those tales told and believed over and over but never actually experienced.

I'm also curious why some are (or plan to) "dump" the original powder charge? I've often though about pulling the 147 grain FMJ from the 7.62x54r milsurp rounds and replacing them with 150 grain SP in .311 and keeping the original powder intact. Is that a bad idea? Should I reduce the powder charge a little?

[HJ857]

I used to modify 7.62x39 rounds in a similar way for use as short range competition rounds. I used IMR 4895 at around 24.6 grains, if I recall properly. I weighed the pulled bullets and separated them using bullets in the 123.5 grain range for actual competition use, and all others for practice.

I used Lee dies and did neck size though I think it was unnecessary. I bought a spare decap pin from Lee and dremeled the pin right off so I wouldn't touch the primer at all. There's no issue with the cases damaging the dies at all, as others have stated.

These rounds showed a much increased accuracy, but no power at all and much reduced recoil. Good for paper punching out to a hundred yards.

I did mess with full power loads with a hunting bullet and that showed promise but I never pursued it to the end.

[snuffy]

GCPUNK, your sarcasm is noted, as well as your lack of knowledge of the differences of the hardness of different steels. I really don't care what you do, it's still a free country, even though hussien obama is trying to destroy it.

Slammer was not asking for opinions, he wanted facts. That's what I gave him. If you can't accept that, then oh well------

[saands]

I don't think that Lee makes a collet die for the 7.62x54 ... so you are stuck using a normal FL resizing die (or making a collet die out of a 303 Brit version from Lee ... not much work at all if you have a lathe ... I did one a week or so ago to reload brass cases in 54R)

Anyway, I have found that the mil-surp loads are insanely consistent when I run them across my Chrony ... their problem was in the projectiles. For many years, I have been pulling the 147gr or 149gr bullets out of the milsurp and seating some 303Brit bullets in their place ... taking care not to seat them any deeper in the case than the original. They shoot to the same POI, just with smaller groups.

Saands

[bigwrench]

If it where I who where going to try this. I would see how the case neck expander felt on the way into the case. If there was some noticed "drag" on the way in, I don't think that resizing would be necesary, taking into consideration that the cases are unfired. However, if I where set on trying to reload/resize steel cases, why go threw the trouble of pulling bullets and dumping powder when there are probably hundereds of thousands of spent cases at every rifle range in the country.

Also, if you try this be sure to use plenty of good case lube as gualding is always a problem with friction and like metals. If you stick a steel case in your dye, it's toast.

Post your results be they positive or negative.

[FrankenMauser]

The original question has been covered as well as I might attempt.

However, if anyone is still wondering about boxer primed brass - Prvi is the most common supplier in the U.S.. They stamp the x54 brass for several companies (including Winchester), and it's decent quality. Last time I bought a bag of 100 (Winchester stamped - at a local shop, even), it was only $2 more than a bag of 100 .30-06 cases.

From working with reloads and the original primers (all of the brass I have bought came primed), the Prvi primers seem to be a very thick-cupped magnum-ish type. (They seem to be 'hotter' than CCI and Winchester Standard LR primers; and it's the only brand of primer my firing pin doesn't pierce.)

[noelf2]

why go threw the trouble of pulling bullets and dumping powder when there are probably hundereds of thousands of spent cases at every rifle range in the country.

Because their primers only work once, and most people don't have a mechanism to reprime berdan cases.

[snuffy]

From working with reloads and the original primers (all of the brass I have bought came primed), the Prvi primers seem to be a very thick-cupped magnum-ish type. (They seem to be 'hotter' than CCI and Winchester Standard LR primers; and it's the only brand of primer my firing pin doesn't pierce.)

Frank, that makes total sense, because the primers don't look like winchester primers in the winchester headstamped brass I got at the gunshow. It matters NOT, because the loads I've been making are low pressure, and the old military sights are hardly capable of pinpoint accuracy, neither are my 64 YO eyes!

[mkl]

I, like snuffy, have made up "Mexican Match" loads in the 7.62x54R. Worked out just fine.

As I recall, I never ran the case through a sizing die. Just pulled the 148 grain FMJ bullet and replaced it with a .312 soft point designed for the 303 British. The neck tension was sufficient to hold the new bullet without running the case through the sizing die. I do not recommend this to anyone else, but I even reused the powder.

The charge weight of the original cartridge was 47.5 grains of some unknown powder (average of ten cartridges). I recharged the case with 46.0 grains of this same powder behind the 150 grain soft point.

My objective was to make up some deer hunting ammo. Shot just fine, but have not yet found a deer close enough to try with only iron sights.

[res45]

RamSlammer if your so inclined to try it go for it. Making Mexican Match ammo has been done by everyone form the US military marksmanship team to numerous hand loaders across the board in many different calibers to make generic or no preforming ammo better. I reload for the 54r but I enjoy the journey making ammo more useful and shoot better.

I make my own 54r hunting ammo the very same way,I have more than enough of the brass case surplus ammo I bought up years ago when it was less than ten cents a rd. some of it is the yellow tip heavy ball and it's pretty worthless accuracy wise in my M44 so I converted it to accurate hunting ammo.

I reused everything but the original bullet,which I cleaned and sold off to purchase more of the Speer 150 gr. SP .311's I used to remake my ammo. It pretty much goes like this.

Select a lot# or tin of ammo to work from,I usually work with 100 rds. at a time. Pull the original bullet dump the powder in a suitable marked container and put the brass or steel case in a marked coffee can,set aside one charged case form each individually warped package or box to weigh the powder charge to get an average for that lot#. Once you done pulling the bullets weigh the individual charges write them down and average out the load.

My brass case were all over the min and max length so I choose to trim them all the same which was easily done on my Lyman universal trimmer with power adapter,once I did that I ran all the cases through my RCBS FL sizing die,the case want FL resize only the neck and inside neck dia. will be set by the expander ball to accept the new bullet and straighten out the neck.

My bullets of choice are based on similar design,dia.and bearing surface in the same or lesser weight as the original pulled bullet,Hornady,Speer and Sierra all make good substitutes from 150 to 180 in .311 and .312,my M44 has a bore dia of .313 and likes the .311 the best in 150 gr. I take the original powder and reduce it by 10% form the original averaged load and work up the most accurate load possible which in my case will average less that 2" at 100 yds with iron sights,it would probably be smaller if I had a scoped rifle but it works fine for my purposes since most of my shots are under 100 yds anyways where I hunt.

The bullets I pull vs. some of the one I reload with

[RamSlammer]

Mexican Match huh? Good to know there's a term for it. Thanks for the insight guys. In the end I found neck sizing was not needed, the case tension was really good and after being seated, the bullets aren't going anywhere until shot it would appear. I did try resizing a few and they were barely engaging, but seemed to have no more difficulty than brass.(Obviously these cases will be tossed to the recycle bin so no need to do any sizing at all it would appear. Also the case lengths were surprisingly consistent so I didn't trim either.

Using new powder just because I have it and on the off chance I would want to duplicate any particular load with a different batch of surplus. I doubt these loads will be used for hunting, most likely just trying to get smaller groups of holes in paper at 100 yards using the original iron sights. Anyhow, I did 50 with 10 each of 42, 43, 44 and 45 grains of Varget as well as one batch with only 36 grains just to try a lower recoiling round to see how it shoots. We'll see how they do in a couple of weeks when I can get to my outdoor shooting spot again.

[res45]

A section from a really long post on Mexican Match.

The introduction of 7.62mm was heralded by a 1964 production run at Frankford using the familiar buff box design. The cartridge was designated as XM118 with a velocity of 2550 feet per second. The next year Frankford produced the ammunition with the buff box design and the cartridge's new designation of M118 while Lake City's 1965 white box design interestingly enough indicated that the contents were XM118.

M118 Match began rolling off of the production in white boxes. The year of production was noted by either having the year printed in red over the eagle logo or having the lot number, which first two numbers usually mirrored the last two of the year, stamped on the front just below M118. While this ammunition was a fine cartridge, it was impossible to stop shooters from tinkering with it to improve accuracy. As the military had the most ample supply of the ammunition the search for an extra edge started with them. For some time it was popular to take a pliers type reloading device and break the bituminous seal between the neck and the bullet in the belief that this would make the force needed to separate the bullet from the case more uniform. This was, of course, against the rules when the ammunition was being fired in an EIC or National Match.


Another tack taken by shooters was to pull the 173-grain bullet and replace it with a 168-grain hollow point boat tailed bullet. This modified ammunition proved better than the factory product and became very popular for use by military shooters in NRA matches. Like breaking the seal, replacing the bullet violated section 4-19 of the 'Rules and Regulations for National matches and Other Excellence-in-Competition (EIC) Matches' which forbids the alteration of the issued ammunition in any way. For reason lost to history this reworked ammunition became known as 'Mexican Match." This particular innovation was to influence a dramatic change in National Match ammunition.

[karday]

I am looking for an actual load using a 180 grain bullet with either Hogden BL2(c), 335 or 322. I have the loads using lighter bullets with this powder and other powder for the 180 grain. Do not like the IMR 4350 because the larger grains often hang in the powder drop and have caused some excessive torgue in the press sheering the granules.