Hollowpoint reactions to walls in the home

ChrisMkIV · June 3, 2000, 08:51 PM

This question has been nawing at me a little, when my wife, Michelle, fired my Colt MKIV Series 80 at her attacker inside our bedroom, the hollowpoint first struck wood, then continued on to strike the sheetrock walls, to come to rest in a 2x4, one of many that make up the north wall of my home.

It did not expand hardly at all, I is apparent it did not strike anything hard enough to expand, but are all hollows like that, or just the Federal(?) 230gr hydra-shocks I had loaded in it?

------------------
"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, becuse the whole body of the people are armed"
Noah Webster

Second Amendment lover? www.2ndamdlvr.homestead.com/home.html
Support H.R.347 Citizens Self-Defense act of 1999! Sign petition at: www.petitiononline.com/protect/petition.html

Banzai · June 3, 2000, 09:24 PM

Research this in the handguns and pistolcraft forum, and you'll find your answers. The simple answer is that hollowpoints require a fluid medium to expand (to wit, the human body). The hydraulic pressure of water laden tissues causes expansion.
Often, hollow points will not expand after having passed through hard barriers, even if you hit the BG.
Sounds to me, though, like you have a story to tell. I hope that your wife and family are all OK after the incident. Please relate to us any things that you learned about safety/security/gun handling under stress. Don't worry about flames, we're all here to learn!

Tom

------------------
A "Miss" is the ultimate overpenetration!
You can never be too rich, too skinny, or too well armed!
Wake up and realize that you have the moral imperative of action..!!!

June 3, 2000, 09:24 PM

A hollowpoint requires some kind of liquid to hydraulically push the petals out. The wood and wall could not provide this.

ChrisMkIV · June 4, 2000, 12:54 AM

While I was at work, I work nights, an intruder busted some safety glass in my back door window and went thru some things in the living room and kitchen, after that he went to the master bedroom and attacked my wife and tried to rape her, I posted an account of the event from what my wife and the detective told me. you can still read the post I think, it was not all that long ago.

Just go to search and look for a thread called "my wife was attacked in our own home"

Two lessons to all who have not had to endure
this with a loved one: A)always keep a round in the chamber at night B)keep it LESS than an arms reach away from you.

Thanks for the info on the bullet expantion

------------------
"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, becuse the whole body of the people are armed"
Noah Webster

Second Amendment lover? www.2ndamdlvr.homestead.com/home.html
Support H.R.347 Citizens Self-Defense act of 1999! Sign petition at: www.petitiononline.com/protect/petition.html

Paul B. · June 4, 2000, 02:06 AM

Chris. When a hollow point bullet hits sheetrock, foe example, the hollow fills up with the material (gypsum) and in essence, becomes asolid. IE hardball. When they pass through lumber, IE your 2x4, the pressure on the outside if the bullet jacket from the wood further prevents the bullet from opening up.
Hope this helps.
Paul B.

WESHOOT2 · June 4, 2000, 11:08 AM

Speer Gold Dot....

------------------
"All my ammo is factory ammo"

Schmit · June 4, 2000, 07:40 PM

Chris,

If you can get your hands on a copy of "Street Stoppers" By Marshall & Sanow read chapter #22. "The History of Hydra-Shok, Starfire, & Quik-Shok Ammunition - by Tom Burczynski".

Tom explains how he developed these and it give a good insight into what mechanics are involved in causing HPs to expand.

If you can't get a copy drop me an e-mail with your address and I'll send you the chapter (I don't think Tom would mind

)

------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

munir · June 5, 2000, 10:02 AM

There was an interesting article in a recent gun rag (maybe "Gun World") on a non hollow point expanding round. It used a silicon wafer in the head of the bulled that would get crushed, and the had of the bullet would expand. The whole poiunt was reliable expansion. Interesting idea. Of course the gun rag was raving, as gun rags are prone to do. We'll have to see how it works in the real world.

------------------
ahlan wa sahlan
PCV Yemen 1984-86

Walt Welch · June 5, 2000, 02:48 PM

Gun Tests has for some time plugged hollow points (that they test for expansion in gelatin) with modeling clay.

Quality hollowpoints expand, even plugged.

Walt

ChrisMkIV · June 5, 2000, 08:02 PM

Walt- That is why I thought hollowpoints were good for indoors, because unlike FPJ's or FMJ's they expand when they strike, so I thought.

Gunny Schmit-Is it on the internet?, maybe I could download. If I can't find it I will drop you an E-mail, thanks

------------------
"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, becuse the whole body of the people are armed"
Noah Webster

Second Amendment lover? www.2ndamdlvr.homestead.com/home.html
Support H.R.347 Citizens Self-Defense act of 1999! Sign petition at: www.petitiononline.com/protect/petition.html

Schmit · June 5, 2000, 09:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by munir:
There was an interesting article in a recent gun rag (maybe "Gun World") on a non hollow point expanding round[/quote]

I believe what you are talking about is Tom's newest design - Expanding Full Metal Jacket (EFMJ).

There is some highspeed pics Tom sent me located [Link to invalid post]. The second post (mine) also has a link to the original topic. In the original Tom also addressed questions regarding his previous designs

Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

[This message has been edited by Schmit (edited June 05, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Schmit (edited June 05, 2000).]

ChrisMkIV · June 5, 2000, 10:36 PM

awsome pics!!

------------------
"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, becuse the whole body of the people are armed"
Noah Webster

Second Amendment lover? www.2ndamdlvr.homestead.com/home.html
Support H.R.347 Citizens Self-Defense act of 1999! Sign petition at: www.petitiononline.com/protect/petition.html

Bogie · June 6, 2000, 04:49 PM

A while back, a couple of buddies and I did a few tests - One was rehabbing a house, and made a few "walls" out of drywall and 2x4s...

EVERY rifle and pistol round went right through. Buckshot made nice holes. But when we went down to a #8 trap load, it made a big hole in one side, and dimpled the paper on the other. I would NOT want to be shot with that either...

------------------
A sensitive new age guy of the old school

June 3, 2000, 08:51 PM	#1
ChrisMkIV Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2000 Location: The Colony,Tx Posts: 338	This question has been nawing at me a little, when my wife, Michelle, fired my Colt MKIV Series 80 at her attacker inside our bedroom, the hollowpoint first struck wood, then continued on to strike the sheetrock walls, to come to rest in a 2x4, one of many that make up the north wall of my home. It did not expand hardly at all, I is apparent it did not strike anything hard enough to expand, but are all hollows like that, or just the Federal(?) 230gr hydra-shocks I had loaded in it? ------------------ "The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, becuse the whole body of the people are armed" Noah Webster Second Amendment lover? www.2ndamdlvr.homestead.com/home.html Support H.R.347 Citizens Self-Defense act of 1999! Sign petition at: www.petitiononline.com/protect/petition.html

June 3, 2000, 09:24 PM	#2
Banzai Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Posts: 275	Research this in the handguns and pistolcraft forum, and you'll find your answers. The simple answer is that hollowpoints require a fluid medium to expand (to wit, the human body). The hydraulic pressure of water laden tissues causes expansion. Often, hollow points will not expand after having passed through hard barriers, even if you hit the BG. Sounds to me, though, like you have a story to tell. I hope that your wife and family are all OK after the incident. Please relate to us any things that you learned about safety/security/gun handling under stress. Don't worry about flames, we're all here to learn! Tom ------------------ A "Miss" is the ultimate overpenetration! You can never be too rich, too skinny, or too well armed! Wake up and realize that you have the moral imperative of action..!!!

June 3, 2000, 09:24 PM	#3
KilgorII Guest Posts: n/a	A hollowpoint requires some kind of liquid to hydraulically push the petals out. The wood and wall could not provide this.

June 4, 2000, 12:54 AM	#4
ChrisMkIV Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2000 Location: The Colony,Tx Posts: 338	While I was at work, I work nights, an intruder busted some safety glass in my back door window and went thru some things in the living room and kitchen, after that he went to the master bedroom and attacked my wife and tried to rape her, I posted an account of the event from what my wife and the detective told me. you can still read the post I think, it was not all that long ago. Just go to search and look for a thread called "my wife was attacked in our own home" Two lessons to all who have not had to endure this with a loved one: A)always keep a round in the chamber at night B)keep it LESS than an arms reach away from you. Thanks for the info on the bullet expantion ------------------ "The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, becuse the whole body of the people are armed" Noah Webster Second Amendment lover? www.2ndamdlvr.homestead.com/home.html Support H.R.347 Citizens Self-Defense act of 1999! Sign petition at: www.petitiononline.com/protect/petition.html

June 4, 2000, 02:06 AM	#5
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	Chris. When a hollow point bullet hits sheetrock, foe example, the hollow fills up with the material (gypsum) and in essence, becomes asolid. IE hardball. When they pass through lumber, IE your 2x4, the pressure on the outside if the bullet jacket from the wood further prevents the bullet from opening up. Hope this helps. Paul B.

June 4, 2000, 11:08 AM	#6
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Speer Gold Dot.... ------------------ "All my ammo is factory ammo"

June 4, 2000, 07:40 PM	#7
Schmit Staff Alumnus Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: Masquito infested flatlands of Mid-FL Posts: 1,857	Chris, If you can get your hands on a copy of "Street Stoppers" By Marshall & Sanow read chapter #22. "The History of Hydra-Shok, Starfire, & Quik-Shok Ammunition - by Tom Burczynski". Tom explains how he developed these and it give a good insight into what mechanics are involved in causing HPs to expand. If you can't get a copy drop me an e-mail with your address and I'll send you the chapter (I don't think Tom would mind ) ------------------ Schmit GySgt, USMC(Ret) NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS "Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

June 5, 2000, 10:02 AM	#8
munir Member Join Date: January 25, 2000 Posts: 92	There was an interesting article in a recent gun rag (maybe "Gun World") on a non hollow point expanding round. It used a silicon wafer in the head of the bulled that would get crushed, and the had of the bullet would expand. The whole poiunt was reliable expansion. Interesting idea. Of course the gun rag was raving, as gun rags are prone to do. We'll have to see how it works in the real world. ------------------ ahlan wa sahlan PCV Yemen 1984-86

June 5, 2000, 02:48 PM	#9
Walt Welch Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 1998 Location: Alamo, CA Posts: 424	Gun Tests has for some time plugged hollow points (that they test for expansion in gelatin) with modeling clay. Quality hollowpoints expand, even plugged. Walt

June 5, 2000, 08:02 PM	#10
ChrisMkIV Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2000 Location: The Colony,Tx Posts: 338	Walt- That is why I thought hollowpoints were good for indoors, because unlike FPJ's or FMJ's they expand when they strike, so I thought. Gunny Schmit-Is it on the internet?, maybe I could download. If I can't find it I will drop you an E-mail, thanks ------------------ "The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, becuse the whole body of the people are armed" Noah Webster Second Amendment lover? www.2ndamdlvr.homestead.com/home.html Support H.R.347 Citizens Self-Defense act of 1999! Sign petition at: www.petitiononline.com/protect/petition.html

June 5, 2000, 09:21 PM	#11
Schmit Staff Alumnus Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: Masquito infested flatlands of Mid-FL Posts: 1,857	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by munir: There was an interesting article in a recent gun rag (maybe "Gun World") on a non hollow point expanding round[/quote] I believe what you are talking about is Tom's newest design - Expanding Full Metal Jacket (EFMJ). There is some highspeed pics Tom sent me located [Link to invalid post]. The second post (mine) also has a link to the original topic. In the original Tom also addressed questions regarding his previous designs Schmit GySgt, USMC(Ret) NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS "Si vis Pacem Para Bellum" [This message has been edited by Schmit (edited June 05, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Schmit (edited June 05, 2000).]

June 5, 2000, 10:36 PM	#12
ChrisMkIV Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2000 Location: The Colony,Tx Posts: 338	awsome pics!! ------------------ "The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, becuse the whole body of the people are armed" Noah Webster Second Amendment lover? www.2ndamdlvr.homestead.com/home.html Support H.R.347 Citizens Self-Defense act of 1999! Sign petition at: www.petitiononline.com/protect/petition.html

June 6, 2000, 04:49 PM	#13
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	A while back, a couple of buddies and I did a few tests - One was rehabbing a house, and made a few "walls" out of drywall and 2x4s... EVERY rifle and pistol round went right through. Buckshot made nice holes. But when we went down to a #8 trap load, it made a big hole in one side, and dimpled the paper on the other. I would NOT want to be shot with that either... ------------------ A sensitive new age guy of the old school