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January 7, 2022, 03:33 PM | #26 |
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Offers nothing over the 9mm. Little faster, but less bullet weight, so basically reinventing the wheel.
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January 7, 2022, 04:50 PM | #27 |
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"Offers nothing over the 9mm. Little faster, but less bullet weight, so basically reinventing the wheel."
For a whole two extra cartridges. Yeah, I'm not seeing it, either. But, then again, it's a .32... So I'm interested... Damn my infatuation with the polite bore!
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January 7, 2022, 04:56 PM | #28 | |
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I suspect the outside dimensions of the barrel would be the same as a 9 mm. If so,the barrel steel would get thicker. Blowing up barrels is not likely to be the concern. Elevated pressures mean higher loads on locking surfaces. Higher slide velocities. Increased loads on the interface between polymer frame and the critical steel inserts the slide runs on. If its not an issue,why does S+W approve of some +P loads in the owners manual and recommend against others? My understanding is the Shield was designed from the get-go for 40 S+W. And,the case head area will be greater at the breech face. Area matters when translating PSI into mechanical load. I don't doubt the Shield can handle it if S+W says it can. But a jump from 35,000 to 50,000 IS worthy of some raised eyebrows. |
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January 7, 2022, 05:15 PM | #29 | |
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January 8, 2022, 07:26 AM | #30 |
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I carry an extra mag for more ammunition.
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January 8, 2022, 12:19 PM | #31 |
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It would be cool if an "ambassador" to Federal wasn't required to have either sleeve tattoos, plaid shirts, baseball hat, beard, or some combo of all.
Kinda made me think of the 22 TCM that is basically a zombie cartridge right now.
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January 8, 2022, 12:29 PM | #32 |
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Also, what happens to the P365, the number 1 concealed carry gun?
Does it get smaller, add two rounds, and/or both? Is that going to make me drop 9mm? What about the number two concealed carry gun, the LCP? Does an LCP gun owner want slightly bigger for the same round capacity? Hm...I bet not, even if you were buying new today...
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January 8, 2022, 12:30 PM | #33 | |
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We’re not the target market for the Shield EZ either, but it sells like hotcakes! |
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January 8, 2022, 12:34 PM | #34 |
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But have they shot 100gr Critical Defense Lite?
Or frangible for range shooting? Great job Federal. Call the cartridge a name of a Glock handgun "30s." They didn't show how much smaller/slimmer those 3 guns are vs the 9mm. So kinda makes you think it's either not much or at all. Kinda doubt an M&P 30S is a different grip/slide thickness than the current M&P grip. Specially since there are cutouts on the Nighthawk...
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January 8, 2022, 03:55 PM | #35 |
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One thing to consider may be those parts of the world where 9mm is not allowed for civilians. In which case the comparison should be with .380.
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January 8, 2022, 06:59 PM | #36 |
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Except all marketing is for "US concealed carry market"
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January 8, 2022, 07:12 PM | #37 | |
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This .30 Super tho isn't going to be a big animal caliber like 10mm is or for pocket pistols like the .380s are, this is directly competing with 9mm and when the ammo for .30 Super is always going to cost nearly double than what 9mm does, few are going to willingly pay more for a less available caliber. Further, the entire point of .32 calibers isn't to be as powerful as the 9mm or .38/.357, it's to offer less recoil, yet still achieve the minimum required to be effective for self defense. This .30 Super is likely going to have the same recoil and ballistics as 9mm, just with a mag that holds 2 more rounds. IMO, not worth it, but apparently what the market is demanding for handguns is higher capacities in slimmer pistols.
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January 8, 2022, 07:14 PM | #38 | |
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I'm not too worried about it, this is 50k PSI with a 100 or 115gr bullet, not a 9mm +P+ trying to launch a 147gr at over 40k PSI.
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January 8, 2022, 07:28 PM | #39 |
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So, I took a look at the linked video, as far as the case drawing, which I found interesting.
and it also explains to a degree why it needs high pressure to deliver what I consider adequate but not outstanding results. First, the COAL of the round, is the same as the 9mm Luger, !.169" The drawing shows a very tapered bullet with a very large flat point at the max length. Clearly this length was chosen to fit in 9mm frame size guns. Otherwise, the case is straight with a slight taper, and approximately .30 cal, so smaller in diameter than 9mm or any of the other common larger caliber rounds. And, while the case is 0.07" longer than the 9mm Luger, its also about the same amount shorter than the .38 Super or the .45ACP. And, as to women or smaller individuals shooting it from compact guns (assuming there are compacts to handle the pressures) NOTHING pushing a 100gr bullet at 1200fps is "light recoil" or pleasant to shoot from a compact size pistol. Not a 9mm or a .30 or anything, that's just a matter of basic mass and energy. So I feel marketing claims about how the smaller bore size round would benefit women etc, I think that's just market hype. I think that if a 1200fps 100gr 9mm is a vicious little beast in a compact gun, a .30 cal shooting the same weight bullet at the same speed will be, as well. Putting a lot of lead in the air often wins in military combat but self defense shooting is a different matter, and while only hits count and only good hits matter, the civilian is legally responsible for ever round they fire. And that includes what and who ever gets hit. If the round is a snappy little beast many people simply won't practice, and if you don't practice, you don't get good and real world shootings show that even good shots often aren't such good shots when faced with a life or death situation. All in all, I'm going to pass on this new "wonder round" and just wonder...why?? (other than the profit motive, of course...)
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January 8, 2022, 08:03 PM | #40 | |
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I would try this if I had the opportunity. It's far too early in its market presence for me to consider buying it.
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January 8, 2022, 08:26 PM | #41 |
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It looks like a neat cartridge. I might give it a try.
Extra ammo in a gun is always welcome. |
January 8, 2022, 09:43 PM | #42 | |
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The .32, so long as you can get the bullet to expand and penetrate 12 inches in gel is going to be acceptable for the task. Last year I saw multiple topics about the potential of an improved .32 French Long that had near 9mm power, but higher capacities than 9mm. I didn't shoot the concept down at the time, but I didn't see it as being something that would be successful or even be able to stay alive in the market that long because I realized it was effectively going to be a semi automatic .327 Federal Magnum. The answer for a better .32 auto has been around for years and nobody seems to want to consider it and it's .32 NAA. No, you don't get the capacity increase you would with 9mm, but what you get is a caliber that is better than .380 in all aspects outside of price and availability given only Hornady and Cor-Bon makes ammo for it.
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January 8, 2022, 10:59 PM | #43 | |
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If it takes a MAP of 50kpsi to get the .30 Super to reproduce the terminal ballistic performance of the standard pressure 9x19mm (pushing a JHP that expands to 0.53'' to a depth of 15½ inches) which operates at a much lower MAP of 35kpsi, other than an extra round or two, I don't see the point. Not sure the ''market'' will either, but who knows...maybe it'll sell to the ''hipster crowd'' who seem to always be in search of the newest ''thing''.
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January 8, 2022, 11:49 PM | #44 |
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Love the idea, but without primers, brass and dies I'm not interested.
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January 9, 2022, 11:22 AM | #45 |
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I was thinking more about this round last night. With the micro 9 craze that's currently offering 10+1 of 9mm in a small package these current guns offering the same round count don't offer much more.
They should have designed micro 30's with double stack mags. Imagine a Shield Plus with 15 round flush fit magazines! Now that would be a good seller. Sticking with single stack guns at launch is a big mistake. Last edited by Super Sneaky Steve; January 9, 2022 at 01:34 PM. |
January 9, 2022, 11:52 AM | #46 |
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Give them time. If they can get ammo out to feed the present kluges, the gunmakers will build dedicated models.
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January 9, 2022, 02:14 PM | #47 |
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I said and no one has made mention that Federal said in their marketing the major point is the guns will be slimmer yet there is no way those 3 guns they show are narrower than a 9mm option.
So all you get is +2. The P365 will still be smaller because it's smaller than the M&P. Brought nothing. I'm not buying a bigger gun than the P365 to get +2 rounds in a bigger package. No sense in doing so.
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January 9, 2022, 02:23 PM | #48 |
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Another point to consider, one that the comment about double stack and 15rnd capacity just got me thinking about. Did we suddenly get rid of those horrid capacity laws??
Lots of places in the US, have laws limiting capacity to 10rnds. Some even less. (its NY that has an 8rnd limit, isn't it??) Seems to me that a smaller caliber round's selling point of 12rnds vs 10 is kind of lost in those places.
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January 9, 2022, 02:53 PM | #49 |
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I think we might be missing a potential market for this-we're all (presumably) already gun owners and shooters, but one of the biggest markets these days is people buying their first gun, and often for defense and/or concealed carry.
Picture this on a shelf next to its 9MM counterpart, with the sales guy telling them, "Well, it's just about as powerful, but holds 2 extra rounds vs. the 9MM" and you can start seeing where these could sell to those folks. Larry
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January 9, 2022, 04:07 PM | #50 |
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At first I was worried about the high chamber pressure. Then I read more and "ran some numbers" to look at details.
As far as stress on guns, hoop stress on the barrel goes down as a function of both the reduced ID and the increased barrel thickness (for existing 9mm guns) so no problem here. The breech thrust is pressure time effective area. Regardless on how you calculate effective areas, it will be real close to the breech thrust of a 9mm or possibly a 9mm +P. The last piece of the puzzle is a breech face that is hard enough to take the stress. Any good heat treated steel should be ok for 50 ksi. So most any micro 9mm platform should be able to handle the 30 SC. In order to really tempt buyers, more guns are needed. My guess is that the sweet spot for selling 30 SC guns are those that are just big enough for 8 to 10 rounds of 30 SC. I have a 327 and know what it is to shoot "just not fun" ammo. Too much muzzle blast with standard factory ammo was actually one of my biggest initial concerns. Then I ran some stuff through Quickload. I can not get their velocity with a 100 gr bullet, a 4" barrel, the 50 ksi and any standard powder. FYI, AA 5 is real close to an optimum burn rate for those thinking they will be loading for the round. However, for any load that I ran with 50 ksi chamber pressure, the muzzle pressure came out right about the same pressures seen in the 9mm. Later I found info coming out (including a video with side by side testing) with recoil and muzzle blast very comparable to the 9mm. A lot of recoil sensitive gun buyers also like smaller guns. For reduced recoil in the smaller guns, ammo makers really should offer something more like an 85 gr bullet that does 1100 fps. This would be more pleasant to shoot, but should be close enough to SD ammo to be a good practice round. |
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