Carrying P229 cocked

[ruchik]

I've been researching this matter for a while, and the consensus seems to be that it is very unwise to carry a P229 cocked. But the problem for me is this: my hands are small. I mean really small. I love the P229, no doubt, but even with the short trigger, I can't pull the trigger properly in DA without pulling/pushing the muzzle everywhere. It's not really a matter of training, it's simply that my finger BARELY reaches the trigger in DA; I can only get the very tip of my finger on the trigger. SA with short trigger is no problem. So here's my question. Can I carry a P229 cocked, by first decocking the gun, holstering it, then cocking it again while the gun is in the holster? It seems a major concern is that the gun will go off during reholstering, but decocking then recocking would get around that, no? Or is my only real option to find a SAO gun or an HK? I've contemplated practicing cocking the hammer, then drawing, but that doesn't seem very smart either.

[kristop64089]

Have it converted to SAO, or sell the gun and use the money to buy a gun you can shoot.

[gun nut]

Look at the various offerings from the 1911 I've seen them in 9mm, 38 super, 40 sw, 10mm, 45 acp plus a few other lesser available calibers. The 1911 has a slimmer grip than many guns with a trigger that seems very easy to reach. There are also slim grips available for the 1911. I've also got a hk usp but I don't think the trigger is easier to reach than a 1911. I don't have one but I've seen many times high marks given to the cz 75 grip I don't know what the trigger reach is like. My hi-power also has an excellent grip but I don't think the trigger is easier to reach than the 1911. I would suggest you go and try a few of those.

[pilpens]

- I guess you could but I would not feel comfortable with it. I do not like the extra manipulation of the pistol once it has a round in the chamber. I think that P229 has a safety that prevents discharge without pulling the trigger. So, in case hammer slips and falls, the pistol would not fire .... it still feels unsafe to me.
- If your hands are really that small, it may be better/safer to get a pistol that fits your hand for carry. If you really like DA/SA/Decocker Sigs, then maybe look at a P6/P225 or a P239.
- If you decide to carry the P229 cocked, maybe look at a holster that blocks the hammer.

[mukibetser]

My hands are also on the small side, somewhere in between a men's medium and small golf glove. I have a similar problem with a CZ P-01 -- the DA trigger reach is a tad too far. Unfortunately I think you will need to look for a different gun, especially if you are carrying it. A 1911, as others mentioned, is a good idea. Or, you can look at a polymer gun with interchangeable backstrap. I've heard the S&W M&P fits the bill and is a fine handgun. I own an HK p2000 (not the subcompact) and it fits me like a glove with the medium backstrap. The DA trigger reach is perfect. It also has a small backstrap that might work for you. I stronglyu suggest you check one out. Or, you could try a S&W J frame. I have the model 60 pro with a 3 inch barrel which is a great fit for someone with a smallish hand and would make a good carry piece.

[45Gunner]

Agree with another post, if you cannot be comfortable with that gun because of the size of your hand, I would recommend trading it for something you can, pardon the pun, HANDle.

Probably one of the most common mistakes people make, myself included, is buying a gun on appeal and not factoring in the comfort and maneuverability, if you will, of the weapon and how it feels in your hand. If it is too big for you, than it will never be comfortable to shoot no matter what you do or how hard you train. Get something more to your hand size.

Good Luck.

[ruchik]

Well that's just the thing. I have absolutely no problems with the gun in SA. It's just the DA that's giving me problems, and I was wondering if there some method of carry or battery of arms that would help deal with that.

[Jim Watson]

You should not cock the gun in the holster, a slip would be hazardous to your health if the firing pin block did not engage.

If you just must, the time to thumb cock is after the draw as the gun is coming onto target. I have seen people shoot IPSC and IDPA that way because they had short fingers or because they did not work on the DA-SA transition enough to be confident of a first round hit. It is slower than simply pulling the trigger or flipping a safety and requires both hands, which may not always be available. But it is possible.

I think it is time to be looking at other guns that YOU can put into action without the monkey motion.

[comn-cents]

You are talking about overriding the design of the gun. Find a gun that will fit your hand, that you don't have to change the way it was designed. Or learn how to shoot the Sig. It's not safe to carry any other way in a holster but with it decocked.

[CortJestir]

This is the exact reason I carry a P239, instead of a P229. I prefer the DA/SA action, but can't reach the DA with confidence on the 229.

Please carry your gun as intended. Otherwise, it's time to find another gun that fits your hand better.

[DBAR]

Carrying P229 cocked is not a good idea at all. You should call Bruce at Gray Guns Inc, and consult with him about converting it to a SAO. I've got a P220 SAO, and couldn't be happier. I've always liked SIG's, but never liked the de cocker option. So when they came out with the SAO in 2005, I had to have one, but never had the opportunity until a few weeks ago. Convert it to SAO, and you'll love the cocked and locked aspect. I know I do, that's why I love my 1911, CZ's, and now my SIG.

DBAR

[QBall45]

I recommend trading or outright buying a 1911. Standard grip panels can be changed to thin/slim panels. Also the trigger is easily changed to a shorter one.

Never ever carry a firearm in a manor other than as it was designed to be carried. Its just not smart to do otherwise.

It really matters not that you like the gun you have. It is to big for your hands. Since you are unable to grow your fingers/hands larger...your really left with only one choice. Sell it and get something that fits properly.

[goodspeed(TPF)]

I was wondering if there some method of carry or battery of arms that would help deal with that.

Get a gun that you can operate properly.

[ATW525]

As people have said, another gun is the best solution.

You might want to look into the P239, 1911, Hi-Power, CZ-75 variants with cocked and locked capability, or various Kahr pistols.

[Claude Clay]

P-239 in 40 is a most excellent gun [ i carry it more than any other] but it is bordering on largish.

the [mostly useless] 45 GAP if it is made in single stack may work for your small hands.
EMP also--as a sized down 45acp in 9mm [or do they make it in 40?].
Kel-Tek's PF9 has a smaller grip than the P-11.

but get a gun that fits you as it is designed to operate.
DO NOT get creative.

good luck

[pogo2]

I have a P229 and the single action trigger is about 4 pounds with a pretty short stroke. It doesn't take much to fire it. I'd be afraid to carry it holstered in that condition. The DA trigger is about 10 pounds with a long stroke, and this mode feels safe in the holster to me.

If you like Sigs you could get a P239. I have one of these and the trigger reach is noticeably shorter than on the P229. Mine was bought used and has the Sig short trigger. It is almost too short a reach for me, and I wind up with my finger too far around the trigger. I'm thinking about buying a long trigger for this reason to replace the short one. But it may just fit a person with shorter fingers.

[chris in va]

Have a look at the CZ line. The gun is designed to be carried with the hammer at half cock, which will begin the trigger pull halfway through it's stroke. It can also be carried cocked and locked (safety on, some models) or full DA pull.

But definitely do NOT carry that 229 with the hammer back on a loaded chamber. Never.

Also have a look at the XD line. The one I owned had a very short LOP, one reason why I sold it as I have long fingers.

[HorseSoldier]

+1 on looking at the P239 if you like Sigs but the double stacks are too big for your hands.

[rsxr22]

I am so surprised someone has not mentioned getting the trigger worked over. All of my Sigs, before i even shoot them, get sent out for trigger work. It brings the DA pull down to around 6lbs (which is like a factory glock pull) and SA to around 3.5.

Many people will have comments against getting a trigger worked over, but the truth of it is they are wrong. GGI(Gray Guns Inc.) take a factory gun and make it more reliable and more accurate. They are at the top of the totem poll when talking about gunsmithing by far. However, their price dictates that at being around $250 for a complete action job.

There is another smith that i can recommend first hand, his name is Bill Springfield at trigger-work.net. He does not do a complete action job though, it is strictly smoothing out of the trigger by deburring and polishing. His services are much more afforable at $55, but he does not do any deburring and realiability work-strictly trigger work.

Just google both guys and visit their site. This would be the best decision/route you could go

[DWARREN123]

I carry a SIG P239-40. I sometimes practice cocking with my support hand thumb when I draw, keep the trigger finger on the frame to keep from shooting before ready.
I would never carry it cocked!

[Mkbailey123]

I have been reading several threads about this topic. It appears most everyone has an opinion that by cocking the hammer of a DA/SA makes it too unsafe to carry.

On one hand you would have to be very naive to think that cocking the hammer is as safe as carrying in DA mode. The same logic goes for carrying a Glock with a round racked in place.

Glock has done such a good job of marketing there double "safe" action only. I have a many Glocks including a model 19. Stock I think the trigger pull is 4.5 pounds. I along with many Glock enthusiasts have modified my trigger pull. I installed a lighter trigger assembly and pin reducing my pull to 3.5 or so pounds.

I have carried my Glock 19 and 43 this way for years. Having a secure IWB holster with a rigid plastic guard over the trigger is all you need.

In my opinion " common sense albeit" there are two areas of concern carrying any gun with a live round in the chamber. Wither it is a SA, DA/SA, or DA only preventing negligent discharges is what we are all after. The two areas of concern would be pulling the trigger unintentionally or dropping the gun and discharging the weapon.

So lets discuss for simplicity sake the Glock 19 Double action only and the Sig P229 DA/SA. For ease of debate lets use the drop test. Everything I have read both the Glock 19 and Sig P229 cocked will not fire dropped unless the trigger is pulled on either gun.

Now lets discuss carrying these guns holstered, chambered and cocked. I think we can all agree now that neither of these guns will fire without the trigger being pulled. If you have a safe holster this will never be a problem; at least while the gun is holstered.

The only other areas of concern are when both guns are holstered or un-holstered. Here is where the rubber meets the road, and everybody sheepily following the flock.

Just because Glock has done a great job making us believe these are double action pistols, they in terms of safety are not.

Most Double Action guns have a 10lb trigger pull. In a concealed carry environment where we might holster and un-holster our guns a few times each day, this could add a large degree of safety.

In order to determine the Sig P229 unsafe because the gun is cocked, one would have to review the trigger pull weight. Because at this stage of the game this is the only safety margin either the Glock or the Sig have.

Even though the Glock is partially cocked it only takes between 3.5 and 4.5 pound of pull with a very short travel needed to make the Glock go boom. The Sig has a 4 to 4.5 pound trigger in SA mode. The Sig does is SA mode a slightly less trigger pull length, but a slightly higher trigger pull pound.

So one could argue carrying a Glock with a trigger job is less safe than carrying a cocked Sig P229 with a stock trigger.

[Screwball]

OP…

https://www.sigsauer.com/p229-legion-compact-sao.html

Originally Posted by Mkbailey123

I have been reading several threads about this topic. It appears most everyone has an opinion that by cocking the hammer of a DA/SA makes it too unsafe to carry.

Because it is…

Big difference between the SIG DA/SA setup in SA and the Glock. The Glock was designed to be carried as such. Multiple safeties, to include the trigger safety. For the SIG, yes it has a firing pin block… but the DA pull is similar in practice to the Glock’s trigger safety. That is how those SIGs are designed to be carried, as are all DA/SA pistols with a decocker. If it were designed to be carried cocked, there usually is a n external manual safety to allow this (CZ, SA SIGs, H&K, etc).

Whether or not the firing pin safety is going to catch it… you have a SA trigger ready to be pulled. It is resting on the sear, and the firing pin safety will be disengaged with the same short trigger pull. That first part is the bigger difference between it and the Glock… where the trigger still has to do more work before firing (similar preset DAO, like some of the S&W 3rd Gen pistols and some of Ruger’s guns… like the original LCP; notice it as the DAO pull doesn’t allow for a second strike). While training could probably reduce any issue… getting amped up and drawing, you could yank a round off before you intended.

Would you carry a S&W 686 with the hammer cocked? Safeties might keep it from going off when dropped… but I wouldn’t call that situation “safe.”

[WyMark]

I have a P228 that I don't carry, because I have other smaller and lighter carry options, but the thought of having that on my hip in SA mode would make me extremely nervous.

[Prof Young]

I carry my sig p238 cocked and locked in an OWB thumb break holster. The gun goes into the holster and the thumb break strap goes between the hammer and the firing pin. It's a clip on holster so then the whole thing goes on my belt. I feel absolutely comfortable carrying in that manner.

Life is good.
Prof Young

[WyMark]

But the P238 is SA only. There's a difference. Would you carry it cocked with the safety off? That's essentially what the OP is wanting to do.