.223/5.56 - Would you own it if not for a semi? - Page 3

Charlie98 · February 25, 2018, 12:38 PM

Which came first... the chicken or the egg? This is sort of a circular discussion... would the .223/5.56mm be so popular if it wasn't chambered in the AR vs would the AR be so popular if it wasn't chambered in .223/5.56mm? I submit to you that I would own an AR if it was chambered in .123 Puffball if the ammo was as cheap and plentiful as .223/5.56mm is, particularly if it was GI issue (almost guaranteeing it's success as a civilian round.)

If the AR or it's equivalent didn't exist, then, no, I probably wouldn't own a firearm chambered in .223/5.56mm... I am more a fan of the .30 cal cartridges, and the rifles chambered in them.

Model12Win · February 26, 2018, 02:12 AM

I'd love a bolter in the cart.

Don Fischer · February 26, 2018, 12:19 PM

I've ad two 223's. An L461 Sako and a 788. Both shot well and in those days I did shoot a gopher or two. These day's I have no use for a 22cal CF of any kind. If I did I find a 222 Rem, most accurate cartridge I ever owned. I suspect if I shot sage rats, a 223 might be nice but I've never shot the first rat. If I had a 223 it would seldom get shot.

As for bolt actions, I've owned a lot of rifle's over the years. One Rem 760 and every other one a bolt. I really have no desire to own a semi auto of any kind.

Hawg · February 26, 2018, 01:48 PM

To me it's a pretty useless cartridge and there's no way I'd have one in a bolt gun. YMMV.

COSteve · February 26, 2018, 02:06 PM

Let's see, I have 2ea AR mid-length 16" carbines, a scoped AR 20" rifle for long range, a scoped Savage Model 10 bolt, and a irons 583 Series Mini-14. They are all great plinking and/or small game guns and I enjoy the caliber. That said, I also have a 40s&w carbine, leverguns in 22lr, 357mag, 45 Colt, and 30-30 as well as scoped leverguns in 300 Savage and .308 In addition, I have semi auto M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, and M1As plus a Win Model 70 in 30-06. I handload for all of them except the 22lr and I mostly shoot the 357mag leverguns and the Mini-14 followed closely by the M1A and M1 Carbine.

Would I keep a 5.56 caliber rifle? Absolutely.

223 shooter · February 26, 2018, 04:11 PM

Quote:

As for bolt actions, I've owned a lot of rifle's over the years. One Rem 760 and every other one a bolt. I really have no desire to own a semi auto of any kind.

Yeah if it came down to getting rid of my AR Varmint or 700LTR bolt I would definitely keep the bolt 700LTR. The Rock River Varmint can fire the relatively heavy 77 MatchKings pretty darn accurately though. I might get 1 in 8" 223 barrel for the Savage 12BVSS and try the 77s in that.

muzzleblast... · February 26, 2018, 05:20 PM

Yes. I owned a .223 bolt action varmint rifle long, long before I ever bought an AR.

**44 AMP** · February 26, 2018, 11:30 PM

I have a good bolt gun in .222Rem. and a fine one in .22-250, the only point to the .223, for me, is in a semi auto with 10, 20, 30, & 90rnd mags.

NWPilgrim · February 27, 2018, 08:41 PM

Just pointing out that the .223 was developed based on the .222 magnum. So there was plenty of varmint use for a .223 sized cartridge long before the AR platform came along (a multitude of similar cartridges shot in bolt actions).

I find it a very affordable centerfire cartridge for short/medium range target shooting and plinking.

Picher · February 27, 2018, 09:14 PM

After using a .30-06 for varmints and deer and it packed quite a wallop. I could even bounce a 150 grain bullet into a chuck on its mound sometimes. Of course, the '06 was primarily a deer/bear cartridge, but it was great practice to hunt woodchucks and crows with it.

I finally got a .22-250 and it was a great varmint cartridge, but due to it's taper had case-stretching issues that somewhat decreased case life and required lots of trimming. However, springtime wind deflection in Maine was a problem beyond 200 yards.

Like the .223, it also had considerable wind deflection, so I switched to the 6mm Rem and that cured the problem, but the heavy-barreled varmint rifle it was in was a pain to carry around all day.

Now, my favorite longer-range varmint cartridge is the .243 Win. I love how it hangs in there in the wind and delivers a great punch on an eastern coyote beyond 200 yards.

JP

Hunter Customs · February 28, 2018, 09:54 AM

Yes, I own both!

Jim Watson · February 28, 2018, 10:26 AM

I swing both ways. AR and 788. The .223 has pretty much obsoleted the .222 and .222 Magnum and has probably cut into sales of .22-250. Just too much ammo and data out there, same as .30-06 and .308, the government support is huge.

fourbore · February 28, 2018, 01:45 PM

Quote:

The .223 has pretty much obsoleted the .222 and .222 Magnum and has probably cut into sales of .22-250. Just too much ammo and data out there, same as .30-06 and .308, the government support is huge.

Exactly, 223 dominates the field. You almost have no choice. Most of the alternatives are for nostalga and hand load only options. The 22-250 is still alive and kicking, but; as you say; I bet its taken a good hit in popularity. I was looking at federal budget 380 $20 a box and 9mm $10 a box. Walmart - Same exact grade ammo. This is what is has come to. A few sacred calibers: 9mm, 223, 308 and some Russian junk 762. Not govt support so much as military image. Like the Russian junk.

MarkCO · February 28, 2018, 01:56 PM

I have both and if I did not have ARs, I would still have .223s. I got out of .22-250 last year as I am working on a .224 Valkyrie.

The only caliber I bought purely because of the gun it was in was a .300BO and .308Win, and I will likely do the same with a 6.5CM. The 300BO is long gone.

dgludwig · March 1, 2018, 07:20 PM

.222, .222 Magnum and .223/5.56 cartridges are in a different ballistic league than cartridges like the .22-250, .220 Swift and the .225 Winchester. Not better or worse (each has its potentially more useful niches) but a different "category" altogether.

February 25, 2018, 12:38 PM	#51
Charlie98 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2006 Location: Great state of Texas Posts: 1,077	Which came first... the chicken or the egg? This is sort of a circular discussion... would the .223/5.56mm be so popular if it wasn't chambered in the AR vs would the AR be so popular if it wasn't chambered in .223/5.56mm? I submit to you that I would own an AR if it was chambered in .123 Puffball if the ammo was as cheap and plentiful as .223/5.56mm is, particularly if it was GI issue (almost guaranteeing it's success as a civilian round.) If the AR or it's equivalent didn't exist, then, no, I probably wouldn't own a firearm chambered in .223/5.56mm... I am more a fan of the .30 cal cartridges, and the rifles chambered in them. __________________ _______________ "I have this pistol pointed at your heart!" "That is my least vulnerable spot."

February 26, 2018, 11:30 PM	#58
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	I have a good bolt gun in .222Rem. and a fine one in .22-250, the only point to the .223, for me, is in a semi auto with 10, 20, 30, & 90rnd mags. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 27, 2018, 08:41 PM	#59
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	Just pointing out that the .223 was developed based on the .222 magnum. So there was plenty of varmint use for a .223 sized cartridge long before the AR platform came along (a multitude of similar cartridges shot in bolt actions). I find it a very affordable centerfire cartridge for short/medium range target shooting and plinking. __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

February 28, 2018, 01:56 PM	#64
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,307	I have both and if I did not have ARs, I would still have .223s. I got out of .22-250 last year as I am working on a .224 Valkyrie. The only caliber I bought purely because of the gun it was in was a .300BO and .308Win, and I will likely do the same with a 6.5CM. The 300BO is long gone. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

March 1, 2018, 07:20 PM	#65
dgludwig Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2005 Location: North central Ohio Posts: 7,486	.222, .222 Magnum and .223/5.56 cartridges are in a different ballistic league than cartridges like the .22-250, .220 Swift and the .225 Winchester. Not better or worse (each has its potentially more useful niches) but a different "category" altogether. __________________ ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED ...Aristotle NRA Benefactor Life Member

February 26, 2018, 02:12 AM	#52
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	I'd love a bolter in the cart.

February 26, 2018, 12:19 PM	#53
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	I've ad two 223's. An L461 Sako and a 788. Both shot well and in those days I did shoot a gopher or two. These day's I have no use for a 22cal CF of any kind. If I did I find a 222 Rem, most accurate cartridge I ever owned. I suspect if I shot sage rats, a 223 might be nice but I've never shot the first rat. If I had a 223 it would seldom get shot. As for bolt actions, I've owned a lot of rifle's over the years. One Rem 760 and every other one a bolt. I really have no desire to own a semi auto of any kind.

February 26, 2018, 01:48 PM	#54
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	To me it's a pretty useless cartridge and there's no way I'd have one in a bolt gun. YMMV.

February 26, 2018, 02:06 PM	#55
COSteve Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2009 Posts: 1,344	Let's see, I have 2ea AR mid-length 16" carbines, a scoped AR 20" rifle for long range, a scoped Savage Model 10 bolt, and a irons 583 Series Mini-14. They are all great plinking and/or small game guns and I enjoy the caliber. That said, I also have a 40s&w carbine, leverguns in 22lr, 357mag, 45 Colt, and 30-30 as well as scoped leverguns in 300 Savage and .308 In addition, I have semi auto M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, and M1As plus a Win Model 70 in 30-06. I handload for all of them except the 22lr and I mostly shoot the 357mag leverguns and the Mini-14 followed closely by the M1A and M1 Carbine. Would I keep a 5.56 caliber rifle? Absolutely.

February 26, 2018, 05:20 PM	#57
muzzleblast... Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2015 Location: Obwat, TN Posts: 285	Yes. I owned a .223 bolt action varmint rifle long, long before I ever bought an AR.

February 27, 2018, 09:14 PM	#60
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	After using a .30-06 for varmints and deer and it packed quite a wallop. I could even bounce a 150 grain bullet into a chuck on its mound sometimes. Of course, the '06 was primarily a deer/bear cartridge, but it was great practice to hunt woodchucks and crows with it. I finally got a .22-250 and it was a great varmint cartridge, but due to it's taper had case-stretching issues that somewhat decreased case life and required lots of trimming. However, springtime wind deflection in Maine was a problem beyond 200 yards. Like the .223, it also had considerable wind deflection, so I switched to the 6mm Rem and that cured the problem, but the heavy-barreled varmint rifle it was in was a pain to carry around all day. Now, my favorite longer-range varmint cartridge is the .243 Win. I love how it hangs in there in the wind and delivers a great punch on an eastern coyote beyond 200 yards. JP

February 28, 2018, 09:54 AM	#61
Hunter Customs Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: Osborn, Missouri Posts: 2,697	Yes, I own both!

February 28, 2018, 10:26 AM	#62
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	I swing both ways. AR and 788. The .223 has pretty much obsoleted the .222 and .222 Magnum and has probably cut into sales of .22-250. Just too much ammo and data out there, same as .30-06 and .308, the government support is huge.