|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
October 7, 2018, 04:29 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 12, 2010
Location: Lake Martin, AL
Posts: 3,311
|
Condition and Appearance of CMP M1911A1's
We just had a forum discussion of various opinions of subject pistols. Some thought they would be akin to a bucket of rusty old guns. Some of us are hoping for better appearance and functional condition of the old warhorses.
I admit they are not for everyone and nicer condition and even brand new 1911's can be had far less money. The nostalgia bug is the reason some of us want one of the CMP M1911A1's. I just discovered this link today with some isolated pictures of the M1911A1's to be either sold or auctioned. The NRA article and few pictures might provide some insight as to what to expect if you are in this market. Here is a link: https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...-inside-story/ |
October 7, 2018, 04:43 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,212
|
My only comment is figuring out how indicative of the whole those specific pictures are is always the issue. The same is true for buying surplus pistols from the big distributors online. Now in my experience the CMP is a lot more fair in its gradings than many others. I think you're probably okay in being a but optimistic, but just remember the actual descriptions are what you are guaranteed. There will be variance in the quality even within each grade level.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk |
October 7, 2018, 04:58 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 12, 2010
Location: Lake Martin, AL
Posts: 3,311
|
I agree, and the few pictures are better looking examples than some I have carried and my expectations. Most of the pictures are from the better condition museum lot vs. the GSA lots.
|
October 7, 2018, 05:28 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 2, 2001
Location: Out West in Rim Country
Posts: 1,093
|
I was issued 1911A1s, and much later had three, 1033 program, 1911A1s in the PD armory. I'm not trying to buy one, but am glad to see that our government is finally, and undoubtedly with great trepidation, allowing citizens to purchase these guns. While I'm not in for one, I'm looking forward to seeing the guns received and hearing the new owner's comments. I have little doubt they will sell all made available for release, and we'll soon see them at twice the price on auction sites.
__________________
COTEP 640, NRA Life |
October 8, 2018, 07:52 PM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 26, 2010
Posts: 274
|
Forged parkerized steel and a match grade Stainless steel Bbl/bushing.
NIB for $500. Collectors - are psychotic. Red |
October 10, 2018, 03:20 AM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 31, 2000
Location: Texas (By Way of Illinois)
Posts: 1,376
|
Unfortunately that beautiful NIB Springfield never served with Uncle Sam. Just like people who own classic cars, they own it because if what it is, not because it's the best function for the money. A 2018 Toyota Corolla will get you down the road with greater comfort and better economy than a 1972 Chevelle. But, the Corolla ain't no Chevelle. The analogy might not stand up to every nitpick argument, but you probably see what I'm getting at here.
__________________
Midwestern Ramblings (my amateur firearms blog): http://martowski.wordpress.com/ |
October 10, 2018, 11:44 AM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 12, 2010
Location: Lake Martin, AL
Posts: 3,311
|
^^^^ What he said. It will mostly like appreciated and continue to do so over the years. Whereas, the Springfield and my Remington R1 will not.
|
October 13, 2018, 10:31 AM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 12, 2010
Location: Lake Martin, AL
Posts: 3,311
|
CMP has announced they have over 17,000 applicant packages. There are only 8,000 pistols in various conditions for this year. There is a possibility this will be the only year. Lets hope not.
|
October 13, 2018, 07:52 PM | #9 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 15, 1999
Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Posts: 6,348
|
Quote:
Over the years I've had friends who have gotten M1 Garands from the CMP. They got them because 1) they were familiar with the Garands from their time in the Army or Marines, 2) similar guns weren't available elsewhere, 3) the Garands shot a round that was easy to buy or reload for, 4) if you needed parts they were easily obtained, and 5) the CMP prices were very reasonable. They love their Garands -- and shoot them. (Two of them later picked up the more costly M1Cs, and love them even more!) Although there were about 2,000,000 1911A1s made during WWII I haven't seen the total number that at will eventually be offered thru the CMP program. The following is from a link on the web. The link is shown, below. CMP 1911 PRICING:Read more: https://www.recoilweb.com/cmp-1911-p...#ixzz5TrPNsqPN As you can see, these aren't likely to be collectible weapons -- some of them sound downright ratty, like some of the dregs you can find on the Century Arms website. You can buy some pretty nice 1911s in that price range -- and get a warranty, too. The link says that only 8,000 will be available for the first year's LOTTERY. Last edited by Walt Sherrill; October 15, 2018 at 08:54 AM. |
|
October 13, 2018, 10:17 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 12, 2010
Location: Lake Martin, AL
Posts: 3,311
|
Walt, You share the same viewpoint of a majority of folks I have read post regarding these firearms. I respect your and other opinions on the subject; although I hold a different one. It is not provenance but rather nostalgia. The same as folks who cherish and want an older classic car from our younger years.
The article I provided a link to in my thread starter above seems to indicate in words and with pictures the condition of at least example of these pistol. Like the cars of yester-year they are not something to compare with newer cars or in this case 1911's. They are a different breed. The simple fact there are over 17,000 packages submitted for a chance to the CMP to obtain 1 of only 8,000 available. |
October 13, 2018, 10:42 PM | #11 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,212
|
Quote:
__________________
Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness |
|
October 13, 2018, 11:54 PM | #12 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 22, 2016
Posts: 3,888
|
Quote:
The only appeal is the 1911 may have been used on Normandy beach, but the likelihood is that it was once used to pistol whip a Korean pimp by an MP after the pimp tried to cover for a couple AWOL soldiers.
__________________
"We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."
|
|
October 14, 2018, 06:14 AM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 15, 2011
Location: Chesterton Ind.
Posts: 822
|
Honoring our men and weman that served our country during war time or peace time is the right thing to do.
But there is something special about the weapons they used. I have several old battle rifles. Part of owning them is just imagining the man or woman that carried it battle ..what they seen..what they went through. Part of the mistique I guess is not really knowing ...but just use your inagination. |
October 14, 2018, 06:54 AM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 21, 2013
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,695
|
Me personally have no desire for the CPM 1911. I never served (tried to enlist in 1984 but got denied from not meeting the vision standard ). Don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE vintage militaria rifles as I own a CMP M1 Special, new production M1A Loaded, Rock River 1903A4 , Yugo M98 8mm , Ishy Mosin 91/30, and a SA 1911 in 9mm. I buy weekly shooters and I have no desire for "collectibles". If my M1 falls over and bounces off my concrete basement floor, I will be very pissed but I won't jump off a bridge because I just ruined a valuable "collector" specimen. Paying $1k for a surplus 1911 having NO idea what I will get is just not of interest. However I do very much respect those of you that served under the guard of your issued 1911 and have the want to just reminisce and admire a CMP 1911.
__________________
"To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid" |
October 14, 2018, 07:09 AM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 24, 2012
Posts: 1,055
|
It would help the conversation to know what anyone who is buying a CMP M1911A1 intends to do with it.
|
October 14, 2018, 07:29 AM | #16 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 9,142
|
Quote:
I didn't get on the CMP list but I understand why a lot of folks did. |
|
October 14, 2018, 10:20 AM | #17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 15, 1999
Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Posts: 6,348
|
Quote:
That some old things have value isn't just because they're old or not made any more, but because they were unique in how they were made, relatively few were made, or because they can't be made cost-effectively nowadays; in a few cases, it's also because few people have the know how to make them! It may also be because for many of these items there's just no demand for newer versions: pieces that are just OLD don't always command attention or high prices.) And with regard to 1911A1s used by U.S. military units, they can and have been made again-- just for different types of combat. The last unit still using 1911A1s -- the Marine Special Operations Command (MARSOC) -- dropped their 1911s in 2016. Other U.S. Special Operations units also had access to similar weapons if they needed them for a number of years. While the gun makers were different, the quality of the newer 1911A1 purchased for Special Ops use are arguably of a higher quality than the CMP guns when they were new. About the only thing that really surprised me when several units went to 1911A1s some years back was that they didn't also go to double-stack versions, as those been used in the gun games for a decade or two with good results. As another participant in this discussion wrote, what many people are buying is nostalgia. Nostalgia is a powerful force, and a lot of folks pine for the "Good Old Days." I generally think The Good Old Days were seldom as good as most people remember (or think they were), but if things, today aren't going as well as you might like, the "good old days" might seem GOLDEN!! Last edited by Walt Sherrill; October 15, 2018 at 08:56 AM. |
|
October 14, 2018, 09:32 PM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 31, 2000
Location: Texas (By Way of Illinois)
Posts: 1,376
|
I have a 1916 DWM Luger as well, and I have no idea what its specific history is. It may have been carried by an Imperial German officer and returned to stock after the war, or it may have sat in a storage crate. Who knows? But, I can tell you that part of what I like about it is the fact that it's an original, Imperial German Luger that was once in the inventory of a major power during WWI. I would NOT think the same if Ruger suddenly decided to start making a reproduction Luger.
I get what you guys are saying about not being into the CMP guns, and completely respect that. However, like so many people have brought up, wanting one instead of a NIB Springfield from Cabela's is not something out of the ordinary. Like the antiques analogy above, sometimes the cool old piece of furniture you find at the yard sale is just "neater" than buying the new piece from the store... even if you don't know it's specific heritage. Kind of like when some guy says "why own a 1911 when you can own a Glock?" Sometimes you just want something.
__________________
Midwestern Ramblings (my amateur firearms blog): http://martowski.wordpress.com/ |
October 15, 2018, 08:41 AM | #19 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 22, 2010
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 988
|
Quote:
--Wag--
__________________
"Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein. |
|
October 15, 2018, 09:21 AM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 21, 1998
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 4,308
|
Completely anecdotal, but when I ran the American Marksman competition, we held the finals at CMP Talladega. Two of the courses used CMP guns. I had them shoot .30 Carbines and .45 ACPs. The .45s were from this batch that they had received for evaluation. They looked decent and shot decent. Sure there were only three of them total, but I was told they were not hand selected, just three samples on top of a crate.
I am not a collector, so I have no interest in getting one, but it was pretty cool to shoot them and the competitors enjoyed the opportunity as well. |
October 15, 2018, 12:14 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,453
|
Never seen any military firearm that was shipped with a magazine inserted. That being considered loaded and all.
Kind of doubt that packaging would keep 'em from being damaged too. Basically loose in a big box. They'd slide around every time the box was moved. Anyway, issue 1911A1's are really junk as shooters(had one long ago). Sights are tiny. Triggers poor. Barrels are poor as well. Except that they routinely sell for $2500US plus as collector pieces they're not really a great buy to shoot.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count! |
October 15, 2018, 01:42 PM | #22 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 4,862
|
Quote:
|
|
October 15, 2018, 10:06 PM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 12, 2010
Location: Lake Martin, AL
Posts: 3,311
|
^^^^^ What Fishbed77 stated. Over the next few years, they will be selling for significantly more that the alleged ridiculous price CMP established.
If this does occur, it will establish CMP offered a very reasonable price to the few winning the lottery for a M1911A1. |
October 17, 2018, 04:51 AM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 30, 2011
Location: Savannah TN
Posts: 1,220
|
I too, think that as time goes by the price that the CMP is asking for these will seem more and more reasonable. I currently have seven USP 1911's and so I haven't been interested in buying one of these, but I am interested in seeing what they will sell for on the secondary market.
As I see it, those that equate a current Springfield (or any other new 1911) with these actual government issue guns, just don't get it and probably never will. They are truly the type of people that would rather buy a Camry instead of a Chevelle because in their minds both cars do the same thing. |
October 17, 2018, 06:07 AM | #25 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,212
|
Quote:
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk |
|
|
|