.38 target loads

[joneb]

I tried some Magnus swaged 148gr HBWC and lead fouling was really bad, even at low velocities. I may try some Silver state bullets from Sportsman warehouse, someone here said they are made by X-treme bullets ? if so the 148LWCs are sized to .358" which should work well in my revolvers. Since I have AA#5 I will try it for .357 mag. and let you know how it works. I tried the Silver state 158gr LSWC which were sized closer to .357" and they were not accurate for me, but there was very little lead fouling.

[deleterman]

JibJab- thats good to know thanks.i will be looking for your post. deleterman.

[joneb]

Hello Deleterman
Well I got a box of those Silver State Bullets 148 LDEWC they measured in at a fat .358" dia. I loaded up some with AA#5 and HS-6 in .357 mag. cases with WSP I was not pleased with any of the loads My best results with these bullets was with W231 and Bullseye. I shot these in a Colt 4" Trooper and a Ruger Security Six w/a 2.75" barrel.

[TexasSeaRay]

I've never been real keen on bevel-based wadcutters. Never been able to get the consistent accuracy I desire. Now hollow-based are a bit of a different story--but they're getting harder to find, and nobody makes a mould for them (anymore) so that you can cast your own.

For .38 Special target/accuracy loads, I have a number of good ones for the 158 LSWC. But when it comes to the 148 LWC, there's only two--2.7 grains of Bullseye, or 2.8 grains of Bullseye. Primer choice is up to you, but I won't use anything but a Winchester primer for that load.

I've tried all kinds of powder/primer combinations for 148 LWC loads, but nothing has ever beaten 2.7 of Bullseye with a WSP.

Jeff

[VonFatman]

deleterman,
Sounds like you are in the ballpark...but may I suggest that your Bullseye and W231 are considered by many to be a prefered powder for your stated ultimate result.

Here are a couple loads I use and find easy to shoot for myself as well as new shooters including kids.

Good luck.

Please, before trying any loads--verify any/all loads you find here or in other sources against your reloading manuals.

Bob

148gr. HBWC's (Zero Swaged)
2.7gr. Bullseye
WSP
Mixed Brass
Flush seating
FPS: 717 fps (S&W M15-4 w/4" barrel)
726 fps out of S&W Model 52-2

148gr. HBWC's (Berry's)
3.5gr. Win-231
WSP
Mixed Brass
Flush seating
695 fps w/5" S&W Post War M&P
-Eliminated occasional case swelling issues when switched from DEWCs to HBWCS-stayed with HBWC's.

[deleterman]

thanks all; i went to the range (indoors) to try out what i had loaded with unique, i thought that i was standing it the rear of a grayhoung bus!! at low loads its like black powder...i'm thinking for sure to going back to bullseye power..i think it loads out better in my dillon press..357 mag cases with 3.0 gr bullseye for 148 wc. so what do all you smart one think of that?i'm looking for something around 800fps.any thoughts on this set up? deleterman.

[joneb]

.357 mag cases with 3.0 gr bullseye for 148 wc.

I think you are back on track That sounds like a good start load. I recently tried 3.1gr of Bullseye w/148 DEWC (cast) in .357 mag cases with WSP which gave me the best results in a 3.0-4.5gr spread.

[Sevens]

I don't think there is such a thing as a cast hollow base wadcutter-- I think they only come in swaged. Swaged bullets tend to be softer and more expensive. So I stick with cast.

Not that I do-- but for anyone on a progressive machine, a double-ended bullet that is the same from either end must be at least a little bit easier when loading progressive, eh?

My target load for years has been 2.8 or 2.9 grains of Green Dot. Now, you want a smoker? You want some grime all over your pretty revolver? Green Dot will give you exactly that! I started loading this powder and bullet combo when I started reloading on a shoestring budget and I had niether a powder measure nor a scale, and it was a load that offered me consistency and accuracy when assembled with a Lee powder dipper. Sure, laugh if you like, but I was 16 years old, and I would out shoot most folks with a .38/.357 that showed up at the range... with my ammo in their handgun or mine, and it was a lot of fun.

I tried running those cast DBBWC's well up in speed with hotter charges of Green Dot and Bullseye and while it was fun for a while, making a louder bang and a snappier bit of recoil, that's how I introduced myself to barrel leading for the first time. That was awful and I haven't load any "hot" wadcutters since. I was loading them in a .357 case with powder charges that I really didn't feel were even approaching dangerous... but the leading in barrel was an eye-opener.

I still use Green Dot for full wadcutter .38 loads, because I like 'em and they shoot well. The gun gets dirty... but it's not like I wasn't going to clean it if it wasn't "dirty" enough, so it gets dirty and I clean it.

[deleterman]

thanks for your reples, i can't wait to get back to the range to try out my renewed load.deleterman.

[crowbeaner]

sevens, Lyman used to make a hollow base wadcutter mould; they show up on the antigun site every now and then in decent condition. I'd buy one, but I have enough one holers to play with. They can be driven faster than the store boughts because the base cavity isn't as deep or thin as the OTC ones. My old neighbor used to have the mould, but he got tired of having to cast hundreds to keep his kid happy. He figured like I did; if I play with a single cavity mould, it better be for business bullets like the 358156 HP or a 357446 that throws the right diameter.

[scsov509]

I don't have a Speer manual. But if that data is in there, it's a misprint and it's dangerous...I'm not going to back down on 4+ grains of Unique being dangerous in a .38 Special with a 148 grain wadcutter What does your Speer manual say the OAL is?

Just as an additional verification, Speer #13 also lists the 148 grain BB-WC over 4.5-5.1 grains of Unique at 1.295" OAL.

[zxcvbob]

Just as an additional verification, Speer #13 also lists the 148 grain BB-WC over 4.5-5.1 grains of Unique at 1.295" OAL.

At that OAL, the 4.5 load is OK (16524 psi by QuickLoad), but 4.6 and 4.7would be +P loads, and anything beyond that is too much for a .38 Special -- but probably not dangerously high.

The same loads but with the bullet seated flush with the end of the case, as wadcutters are commonly loaded (just .15" deeper) are well into .357 Magnum pressures.

[deleterman]

Wow i just heard that W231 is very dirty in light 357 and 38 cases. could that be right? worse than unique and bullseye??? deleterman.

[zxcvbob]

Wow i just heard that W231 is very dirty in light 357 and 38 cases. could that be right? worse than unique and bullseye???

Could be; all powder burn a lot cleaner above a certain pressure threshold. But that's one of the good things about wadcutters: they take up so much of the space inside the cartridge, the pressure is all out of proportion to the strength of the load.

(If you want a clean-burning powder, try American Select. It is by far the cleanest powder I've ever used. Other than the clean part, it's about like Green Dot)

[DMZX]

Wow i just heard that W231 is very dirty in light 357 and 38 cases. could that be right? worse than unique and bullseye??? deleterman.

I have not noticed that. After the first 50 rounds I can not really tell if Unique is dirtier than 231 or any other powder.

I guess relative scale of powder dirtiness is an issue if you rarely clean your guns.

[deleterman]

thanks for all the good info! I just checked today on the price of 1# of w231 @25 bucks so at that i think that i will use up all the bullseye powder that i have on hand before jumpping to another powder.i think at 3.5gr of bullseye in mag cases useing 148gr wc it will be clean burner...and i won't get black lung at the range....deleterman.

[SL1]

One thing I do when loading wadcutters is to seat the bullet out just far enough to get the nose into the chamber throat. That lines the bullet up better for going straight without deformation when fired.

In 357 cases, I found 3.2 grains of Bullseye gave the best accuracy with the bullets seated out this way. That seems consistent with the best accuracy at 3.1 grains that Jibjab reported with the bullets seated flush in 357 cases and the best accuracy at 2.7 to 2.8 grains in 38 Special cases that TexasSeaRay reported.

SL1

[DMZX]

One thing I do when loading wadcutters is to seat the bullet out just far enough to get the nose into the chamber throat. That lines the bullet up better for going straight without deformation when fired.

Umm. I do the same thing. With BBWC there is a thin crimp groove just below the shoulder that I use. With HBWC I just roll a crimp into the soft bullet just below the shoulder. I do not know why conventional wisdom says to seat them flush and crimp the shoulder.

Oh, and determan, as a long time, *cough* black powder pistol shooter, *cough* don't worry about *cough* the smoke *cough* at the range.