22s for the pistol shooting sports?

Glenn E. Meyer · December 28, 2007, 01:16 PM

I shoot a 9mm or a 45 ACP for competitions. However, the ammo prices are going nuts, as we all know. Yes, one could reload but for some of us, it isn't time or setup attractive.

So, do you think there will come a time where IPSC or IDPA will have to set up a 22 LR division. Rugers, Brownings, SW, Ciener conversions, etc. 22 semis will be allowed just to compensate for the increased costs being prohibitive.

Steel can use 22s, I've seen.

Why or why not? If you argue that IPSC or IDPA is serious training - well, that's not really true for all - hence a 22 division.

OldShooter · December 28, 2007, 09:59 PM

I guess it depends on the type of competitions you want to be in. I use my 22s for bullseye.

I haven't looked in to deeply but there is the "Polite Society" which seems to be an IDPA with fewer restrictions on caliber. Take a look.

http://thecurmudgeon.freeservers.com/ps/

scottz0369 · December 29, 2007, 07:35 AM

I sure hope so! I totally agree that the cost of ammo is restrictive for me-The cheapest ammo I can find in SoCal (where I'm stationed) is American Eagle from Wal-Mart at about 11 bucks a box. I'd much prefer to use a Ruger Mk II or the like for USPSA or IDPA shooting. Truth be told, if we're punching holes in paper-22 is fine. I suspect that a 22 would have a potential advantage to "full horsepower" tactical guns in that there is the possiblity of faster follow-on shots due to the lesser recoil.
In practical application, almost any gun can be used for training-sight picture, sight alignment, trigger control and stance (the bread-and butter of accurate shooting) is essentially the same weapon to weapon. I realize that for real-world applications, it's vitally important to train with what you intend to trust your life with as magazine changes and other things will be particular to a certian gun (perhaps a 22 conversion slide/barrel for a person's tactical/defense gun addresses that-I have no direct experience with them, though), but if I'm going to be putting holes in paper-I'd much rather shoot 22.

Scott
MSgt USMC
Somewhere in Iraq

jmorris · December 29, 2007, 08:29 AM

It’s not the cost of ammo that has been getting me lately, 57 miles (one way) to the match and diesel at $3.38 a gallon hits the wallet harder.

Jim Watson · December 29, 2007, 10:41 AM

I have seen mention of USPSA .22 events.
You are kind of limited, the usual .22 pistol is not well laid out for speed loads but I bet if the game caught on, there would be some development on that.

There is getting to be some interest in 200 yard smallbore rifle shooting. As far as trajectory and windage, a .22 at 200 yards is comparable to a BPCR .45-70 at 500 yards or a .308 Palma rifle at 1000.

No kick, lower cost, and no time spent loading ammo. What's not to like about the .22?

9mm1033 · December 30, 2007, 11:55 AM

That's a good question. Personally, I'm fed up with the every other month increase of 9mm ammo. I've shot USPSA with my 9mm, but I'm considering a .22 set up for steel, primarily due the cost of factory ammo. I know it's sad, but due to the increased prices, I have to look elsewhere.

Glenn E. Meyer · December 30, 2007, 03:42 PM

I thought of this when 9mm had another round of price increases this weekend. Lucky, I drive a Toyota or Honda to the matches. 28 to 34 MPG as compared to the I Support the Saudis With My Truck guys.

One could see 22s more configured for match competition on the order of the Walthers and Sig line (although I haven't heard much good about them). But no real experience.

bobn · January 1, 2008, 10:16 PM

i have had a bunch of 22 autos, some good some not so good. but the marvel 1911 conversion would be a perfect match lol for a match pistol....bobn

softmentor · January 3, 2008, 03:25 PM

Our gun club (palmspringsgunclub.org) just started having .22 on one of their steel matches. I plan on trying it this month. You just have to "ring" the steel, not knock it down. Since an average match will cost me $10 in gas and $40 in ammo, shooting one with .22 and $3 in ammo sounds like a great deal of fun in more ways than one. BTW our club has always allowed juniors to shoot with .22 even though IPSA won't record the score (under power rating). Now us big kids can shoot some .22 too.

1SOW · January 7, 2008, 12:43 AM

While I was in Ft Walton Beach Fla., there were local events at the FOP range that allowed any pistol to compete...including .22s.
There was anchored steel that required draw and shoot double taps (by sound), bowling pins that had to knocked off a 4X8 by the big bores, but just knocked over by the small bores; and or course paper. It was a timed event, and everyone really enjoyed the shoots. It was very competitive but some thought the .22s had an advantage.

The only problem I can see in USPSA would be all the existing "hit activated" moving/changing targets would'nt work with .22s. (popper trips clamshell or releases swinging targets.etc).
It would mean adding new divisions, regearing some equipment and spending considerable money.
On the other hand, it would sure lower shooters costs, and probably encourage more participation.

zxd9 · January 9, 2008, 10:59 AM

There's a discussion going on right now on one of the forums dedicated to USPSA about 22's. Most favor letting them be used in local club matches but none others. It seems based on comments that it would be very unlikely to become a recognized division. Too many stage design issues, like steel activated swingers.

USPSA just bought the rights to The Steel Challenge which has classes for .22 w/ either optics or iron sights.

Ken O · January 12, 2008, 10:25 PM

I'm all for it! I see no reason not to allow it. Maybe it will bring in some more ladys and juniors. Myself, I doubt I would shoot a .22 in ISPC, I'm a .45 kind of guy.

I shoot .22rf rifle in club 200 yard matches with pits and its lots of fun. Its really something to get a wiff of wind and be blowed into the 7 ring.

Luis Leon · January 16, 2008, 11:05 PM

I could go for it, it would be a great way to use the kadet kit on my CZ75s. Hopefully, this idea will take wings.

regards,

Luis Leon

Jeff22 · January 17, 2008, 01:55 AM

I just read in NEWSWEEK that the cost of copper has increased 55% since January of 2006. There's a huge demand for copper because of the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan, and the building boom in China. I'm afraid ammo prices may be high for quite a while and maybe forever . . .

I have .22 cal equivalents or conversion units for almost all of my primary weapons. I shoot them all the time, particularly in the winter. I think you can gain a lot by doing accuracy practice with .22s.

20+ years ago our local IPSC club experimented with a .22 cal class. IIRC, we scored only A&B zone hits to score, 4pts each. We had hoped that a .22 cal class would be attractive to beginners -- what we found was that most of the participants were experienced shooters who shot once for score with their big gun, and then refired again with a .22 conversion unit for their M1911type pistol.

Finding suitable holsters & mag pouches for some .22 handguns might be quite an adventure. I suspect this might change if a .22 class in IPSC or IDPA became popular -- look how many people use airsoft guns for practice now.

If ammo prices continue to rise (and I expect they will) shooting .22 might become a more viable competitive alternative. It wouldn't be hard to produce "official" 1/2 scale targets to use in such matches.

Slopemeno · January 22, 2008, 01:51 AM

My Ernie Hill Fender will fit my Ruger Mk-II nicely...

We experimented with this back in '88-'89 at the shop I worked at, and in our Action league. We built a Quadraport upper equpped Ace, and it shot really nice, with nearly no movement, Whichta sights, fully checkered, etc.

I'm waiting for a reasonably priced pre-charged semi-auto .177 pellet gun that carries 8-10 shots, and is reliable. THAT would rock. Matches no longer are tied to real ranges, the lowest possible ammo cost with real accuracy- that would be fun.

Lawyer Daggit · January 22, 2008, 02:04 AM

I would love to shoot IPSC with the .22. Great way to reduce costs and put the fun back into the sport.

45Dave · January 22, 2008, 02:20 AM

Not to high Jack this thread...where were you shooting at Fort Walton???? My son is stationed near there at Hurlburt and has not found a place to shoot yet. Oh, for the 22, yes why not? We run them for steel plates and bowling pins at our club. Great practice and as everyone says..much more affordable to shoot.

Hunter Customs · February 3, 2008, 12:55 PM

I don't shoot competition anymore so this does not affect me at all in that way.
However I am concerned that if the 22 is pushed enough to be accepted for main competition and not just a side match, it may give some the ideal that centerfire handguns are no longer needed.
We need to keep in mind how the loss of gun ownership took place in England.
Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

December 28, 2007, 01:16 PM	#1
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	22s for the pistol shooting sports? I shoot a 9mm or a 45 ACP for competitions. However, the ammo prices are going nuts, as we all know. Yes, one could reload but for some of us, it isn't time or setup attractive. So, do you think there will come a time where IPSC or IDPA will have to set up a 22 LR division. Rugers, Brownings, SW, Ciener conversions, etc. 22 semis will be allowed just to compensate for the increased costs being prohibitive. Steel can use 22s, I've seen. Why or why not? If you argue that IPSC or IDPA is serious training - well, that's not really true for all - hence a 22 division. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

December 28, 2007, 09:59 PM	#2
OldShooter Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2006 Location: Maine Posts: 846	Competition I guess it depends on the type of competitions you want to be in. I use my 22s for bullseye. I haven't looked in to deeply but there is the "Polite Society" which seems to be an IDPA with fewer restrictions on caliber. Take a look. http://thecurmudgeon.freeservers.com/ps/

December 29, 2007, 07:35 AM	#3
scottz0369 Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Normal, IL Posts: 60	22's for IDPA and the like I sure hope so! I totally agree that the cost of ammo is restrictive for me-The cheapest ammo I can find in SoCal (where I'm stationed) is American Eagle from Wal-Mart at about 11 bucks a box. I'd much prefer to use a Ruger Mk II or the like for USPSA or IDPA shooting. Truth be told, if we're punching holes in paper-22 is fine. I suspect that a 22 would have a potential advantage to "full horsepower" tactical guns in that there is the possiblity of faster follow-on shots due to the lesser recoil. In practical application, almost any gun can be used for training-sight picture, sight alignment, trigger control and stance (the bread-and butter of accurate shooting) is essentially the same weapon to weapon. I realize that for real-world applications, it's vitally important to train with what you intend to trust your life with as magazine changes and other things will be particular to a certian gun (perhaps a 22 conversion slide/barrel for a person's tactical/defense gun addresses that-I have no direct experience with them, though), but if I'm going to be putting holes in paper-I'd much rather shoot 22. Scott MSgt USMC Somewhere in Iraq

December 30, 2007, 11:55 AM	#6
9mm1033 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2005 Location: A big city with far too many cars and people. Posts: 932	That's a good question. Personally, I'm fed up with the every other month increase of 9mm ammo. I've shot USPSA with my 9mm, but I'm considering a .22 set up for steel, primarily due the cost of factory ammo. I know it's sad, but due to the increased prices, I have to look elsewhere. __________________ No one reads or cares what is written in ones signature box. So I'm not writing anything worth reading or remembering.

December 30, 2007, 03:42 PM	#7
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	I thought of this when 9mm had another round of price increases this weekend. Lucky, I drive a Toyota or Honda to the matches. 28 to 34 MPG as compared to the I Support the Saudis With My Truck guys. One could see 22s more configured for match competition on the order of the Walthers and Sig line (although I haven't heard much good about them). But no real experience. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

December 29, 2007, 08:29 AM	#4
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	It’s not the cost of ammo that has been getting me lately, 57 miles (one way) to the match and diesel at $3.38 a gallon hits the wallet harder.

December 29, 2007, 10:41 AM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	I have seen mention of USPSA .22 events. You are kind of limited, the usual .22 pistol is not well laid out for speed loads but I bet if the game caught on, there would be some development on that. There is getting to be some interest in 200 yard smallbore rifle shooting. As far as trajectory and windage, a .22 at 200 yards is comparable to a BPCR .45-70 at 500 yards or a .308 Palma rifle at 1000. No kick, lower cost, and no time spent loading ammo. What's not to like about the .22?

January 1, 2008, 10:16 PM	#8
bobn Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2006 Location: midwest Posts: 1,105	i have had a bunch of 22 autos, some good some not so good. but the marvel 1911 conversion would be a perfect match lol for a match pistol....bobn

January 3, 2008, 03:25 PM	#9
softmentor Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2007 Posts: 233	Our gun club (palmspringsgunclub.org) just started having .22 on one of their steel matches. I plan on trying it this month. You just have to "ring" the steel, not knock it down. Since an average match will cost me $10 in gas and $40 in ammo, shooting one with .22 and $3 in ammo sounds like a great deal of fun in more ways than one. BTW our club has always allowed juniors to shoot with .22 even though IPSA won't record the score (under power rating). Now us big kids can shoot some .22 too. __________________ Way HK kinda' guy.

January 7, 2008, 12:43 AM	#10
1SOW Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: South TX Posts: 269	While I was in Ft Walton Beach Fla., there were local events at the FOP range that allowed any pistol to compete...including .22s. There was anchored steel that required draw and shoot double taps (by sound), bowling pins that had to knocked off a 4X8 by the big bores, but just knocked over by the small bores; and or course paper. It was a timed event, and everyone really enjoyed the shoots. It was very competitive but some thought the .22s had an advantage. The only problem I can see in USPSA would be all the existing "hit activated" moving/changing targets would'nt work with .22s. (popper trips clamshell or releases swinging targets.etc). It would mean adding new divisions, regearing some equipment and spending considerable money. On the other hand, it would sure lower shooters costs, and probably encourage more participation.

January 9, 2008, 10:59 AM	#11
zxd9 Member Join Date: November 9, 2006 Posts: 27	There's a discussion going on right now on one of the forums dedicated to USPSA about 22's. Most favor letting them be used in local club matches but none others. It seems based on comments that it would be very unlikely to become a recognized division. Too many stage design issues, like steel activated swingers. USPSA just bought the rights to The Steel Challenge which has classes for .22 w/ either optics or iron sights.

January 12, 2008, 10:25 PM	#12
Ken O Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Half way between Grayling and Cadillac, Michigan Posts: 353	I'm all for it! I see no reason not to allow it. Maybe it will bring in some more ladys and juniors. Myself, I doubt I would shoot a .22 in ISPC, I'm a .45 kind of guy. I shoot .22rf rifle in club 200 yard matches with pits and its lots of fun. Its really something to get a wiff of wind and be blowed into the 7 ring.

January 16, 2008, 11:05 PM	#13
Luis Leon Member Join Date: May 21, 2007 Location: Ulster County, NY Posts: 53	I could go for it, it would be a great way to use the kadet kit on my CZ75s. Hopefully, this idea will take wings. regards, Luis Leon

January 17, 2008, 01:55 AM	#14
Jeff22 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2004 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 715	.22s for Practical Shooting? I just read in NEWSWEEK that the cost of copper has increased 55% since January of 2006. There's a huge demand for copper because of the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan, and the building boom in China. I'm afraid ammo prices may be high for quite a while and maybe forever . . . I have .22 cal equivalents or conversion units for almost all of my primary weapons. I shoot them all the time, particularly in the winter. I think you can gain a lot by doing accuracy practice with .22s. 20+ years ago our local IPSC club experimented with a .22 cal class. IIRC, we scored only A&B zone hits to score, 4pts each. We had hoped that a .22 cal class would be attractive to beginners -- what we found was that most of the participants were experienced shooters who shot once for score with their big gun, and then refired again with a .22 conversion unit for their M1911type pistol. Finding suitable holsters & mag pouches for some .22 handguns might be quite an adventure. I suspect this might change if a .22 class in IPSC or IDPA became popular -- look how many people use airsoft guns for practice now. If ammo prices continue to rise (and I expect they will) shooting .22 might become a more viable competitive alternative. It wouldn't be hard to produce "official" 1/2 scale targets to use in such matches. __________________ You can only learn from experience if you pay attention!

January 22, 2008, 01:51 AM	#15
Slopemeno Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2007 Posts: 2,663	My Ernie Hill Fender will fit my Ruger Mk-II nicely... We experimented with this back in '88-'89 at the shop I worked at, and in our Action league. We built a Quadraport upper equpped Ace, and it shot really nice, with nearly no movement, Whichta sights, fully checkered, etc. I'm waiting for a reasonably priced pre-charged semi-auto .177 pellet gun that carries 8-10 shots, and is reliable. THAT would rock. Matches no longer are tied to real ranges, the lowest possible ammo cost with real accuracy- that would be fun.

January 22, 2008, 02:04 AM	#16
Lawyer Daggit Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Posts: 1,181	I would love to shoot IPSC with the .22. Great way to reduce costs and put the fun back into the sport.

January 22, 2008, 02:20 AM	#17
45Dave Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Location: South East Michigan Posts: 109	Hey 1SOW Not to high Jack this thread...where were you shooting at Fort Walton???? My son is stationed near there at Hurlburt and has not found a place to shoot yet. Oh, for the 22, yes why not? We run them for steel plates and bowling pins at our club. Great practice and as everyone says..much more affordable to shoot.

February 3, 2008, 12:55 PM	#18
Hunter Customs Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: Osborn, Missouri Posts: 2,697	I don't shoot competition anymore so this does not affect me at all in that way. However I am concerned that if the 22 is pushed enough to be accepted for main competition and not just a side match, it may give some the ideal that centerfire handguns are no longer needed. We need to keep in mind how the loss of gun ownership took place in England. Regards Bob Hunter www.huntercustoms.com

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