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Old June 20, 2014, 04:43 AM   #1
darrenlobo
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Open Carry Counter Rally For Gun Rights

Join us in countering the gun rights haters' "Walk & Rally for Universal Background Checks on Gun Sales" (http://delcounited.net/2014/05/15/wa...-on-gun-sales/). They want to "...demonstrate deep and broad support in Delaware County for universal backgrounds checks on gun sales...". We're going to show them that there is deeper and broader support for liberty. We're not going to allow them to implement more ineffective measures that are only incremental steps toward disarming us completely.

We'll start at 1pm rallying and waving signs and flags at the intersection of Providence Rd and Baltimore Pike in Media, PA. At 1:45 we'll move 1 block down the road to rally across the street from the Providence Friends Meeting House (http://www.providencemeeting.org/). Their walkers are scheduled to arrive there at 2pm and their rally begins at 2:30.

For safety all hand guns are to be carried securely holstered. All long guns and shot guns are to be carried slung over the shoulder with barrels pointed straight up or down at the ground.

Please bring signs supporting gun rights to wave.

Invite all of your friends!

Endorsing organizations:

AmmoLand Shooting Sports News
http://www.ammoland.com/
http://www.facebook.com/ammoland
http://www.twitter.com/AmmoLand

Firearms Owners Against Crime
http://www.foac-pac.org/

Concerned Gun Owners of Pennsylvania
http://www.cgopa.org/

Citizens for Liberty

TruthFreedom Prosperity
http://www.meetup.com/Truth-Freedom-Prosperity/

RSVP on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/events/580457748734988/
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Old June 20, 2014, 07:22 AM   #2
2ndsojourn
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They obviously have no idea what they're protesting for. Pennsylvania already requires all handgun transfers, including private sales, to go through a FFL which naturally includes a background check.

And PA is an open carry state with no permit required ("...except in a city of the first class". ie: Philadelphia).

So what are y'all demonstrating? Or protesting?
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Old June 20, 2014, 07:37 AM   #3
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Is the PAFOA participating or endorsing?
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Old June 20, 2014, 08:07 AM   #4
darrenlobo
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Thanks for reminding me to ask them about endorsing us.
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Old June 20, 2014, 08:34 AM   #5
Aguila Blanca
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If you ignore the anti-gun rally, it won't get much attention. Once you people show up with all your "assault weapons" slung over your shoulders, all you're going to do is attract a lot more media attention to the people you are counter-protesting.

Dumb, dumb, dumb. Count me out.
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Old June 20, 2014, 08:40 AM   #6
darrenlobo
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I don't know, White Eagle, it also gets us in the media too. I'm not denying what you say I just think we get the greater benefit.

Also, everytime we open carry at their rallies & no one gets hurt it knocks down their argument that guns are the problem.
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Old June 20, 2014, 09:15 AM   #7
Tom Servo
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I don't know, White Eagle, it also gets us in the media too.
But does it do so in a good way? You may have noticed the negative press open carry has attracted lately. Our opponents are willing to twist otherwise innocent gestures into something sinister if it suits their purposes. Are you sure your group will be able to keep that from happening?
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Old June 20, 2014, 09:35 AM   #8
boltomatic
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Leave the guns at home

I suggest leaving the guns at home. First of all, the rally has nothing to do with concealed or open carry. Secondly, its only going to give the protesters more "ammo" (pun intended). They will point out that the rally had nothing to do with carry laws, and therefore we were being unecessarily dangerous by bringing the guns, and we didn't even understand the law they are supporting. Of course, none of that is true, but they will say it is and people will believe them.

Go to the rally, and be prepared to shoot down any lies they start spreading, but leave the guns at home, its only going to tick people off and draw more attention, it wont help our cause. Prepare a well worded argument based on facts about the problems with universal background checks and why they won't reduce crime. The NRA has a great, well sourced article on this called "will universal background checks reduce murder rates". Read this, and bring that to the rally instead of your guns.

And God forbid there is any kind of accident or incident involving a gun, that would look VERY bad for our cause!

The best thing to do is to distribute a concise, well sourced, and comprehensive list of common gun control myths and other information that supports our cause. Everyone should make their own and distribute it to people at these rallies, giving the people who are on the fence a hard copy of a bunch of facts that support gun rights will do more to sway them towards our side than a bunch of use walking around with guns and picket signs. It will make us look well informed and reasonable why the anti-gun protesters will look childish and biased.

And again, make sure the info you distribute is 100% accurate and includes valid sources. If there is even one slightly misleading "fact", it will be pointed out and people will have reason to doubt everything else on the page.

Also, remain calm and respectful. Don't get into fights and don't yell. People aren't going to make up or change their mind based on who can yell the loudest, they will do it based on who can make the most logical argument.

Last edited by boltomatic; June 20, 2014 at 09:46 AM. Reason: Additional information
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Old June 20, 2014, 09:37 AM   #9
Glenn E. Meyer
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Make sure that all are NOT dressed in scuzzy clothes, with t-shirts shouting hate or blood lust. No scraggy beards and crappy pants, no crappy baseball caps. Ditch the full camo, I'm a commando look.

Dress like going to a formal religious service or business meeting.

I'd leave the EBRs at home. From my knowledge of persuasion and attitudes towards such - you will not convince those who are anti and you will probably move the middle against you and towards the anti side.

Such rallies are really pep rallies for the choir and are not good persuasive tools. The negative feedback you get, convinces you that you are righteous and makes you even less likely to take a realistic look at the critiques.

All this is standard group behavior theory. The OC folks would do well to study up on such.
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Old June 20, 2014, 09:41 AM   #10
coldbeer
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You don't have to show up with a rifle slung over your shoulder. You can just show up and support your side I'm sure. The problem is the media will pick out one or two guys with assaulty looking rifles and attempt to portray everyone there as crazy gun nuts.
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Old June 20, 2014, 09:44 AM   #11
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So far, these events do a lot more harm than good. I've been an NRA member for close to 40 years and I'm a strong advocate for gun rights. However, these events usually make gun owners look like a bunch of fringe element whackos. Just like the fringe element taking their assault rifles into family restaurants as a demonstration of gun rights. My first reaction if I saw someone coming in a restaurant where I was eating with my family would be to draw my concealed handgun and get ready to shoot. They're a bunch of weirdos making the rest of us look bad. Count me out too.
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Old June 20, 2014, 09:49 AM   #12
Spats McGee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca
If you ignore the anti-gun rally, it won't get much attention. Once you people show up with all your "assault weapons" slung over your shoulders, all you're going to do is attract a lot more media attention to the people you are counter-protesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenlobo
I don't know, White Eagle, it also gets us in the media too. I'm not denying what you say I just think we get the greater benefit.
darrenlobo, you do understand that the antigunner folks are pretty likely to hit the press with tales about how your group threatened them, right? It's not like it hasn't happened before.
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Old June 20, 2014, 09:51 AM   #13
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Will you be handing out literature or giving a prepared lecture of any sort?
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Old June 20, 2014, 10:05 AM   #14
Spats McGee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltomatic
The best thing to do is to distribute a concise, well sourced, and comprehensive list of common gun control myths and other information that supports our cause. Everyone should make their own and distribute it to people at these rallies, giving the people who are on the fence a hard copy of a bunch of facts that support gun rights will do more to sway them towards our side than a bunch of use walking around with guns and picket signs. It will make us look well informed and reasonable why the anti-gun protesters will look childish and biased.

And again, make sure the info you distribute is 100% accurate and includes valid sources. If there is even one slightly misleading "fact", it will be pointed out and people will have reason to doubt everything else on the page.
For anybody wishing to participate in one of these rallies, having accurate literature to hand out is an excellent idea. IMNSHO, carrying literature will be more effective than carrying guns. If anyone wishes to create flyers, brochures, etc., I suggest a trip to TFL's "A Repository of Reliable Sources & Citations."
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Old June 20, 2014, 10:14 AM   #15
Art Eatman
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With the usual media hostility toward gun owners, carrying guns to the rally will generate publicity, true. The problem is that it will be negative. It will be slanted to show that the anti-gun people are correct and that legislators should listen to them.

It's all about emotions and perceptions. You're not dealing with people to whom facts are important.
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Old June 20, 2014, 11:33 AM   #16
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenlobo
I don't know, White Eagle, it also gets us in the media too. I'm not denying what you say I just think we get the greater benefit.
I respectfully disagree. Vehemently.

Have your counter-protest if you will, but leave the guns at home.
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Old June 20, 2014, 12:09 PM   #17
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Go with flags and polite signs. Leave the firepower at home or you're playing right into their hands and will do more for their cause than they can.
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Old June 20, 2014, 12:27 PM   #18
psalm7
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Be We blatant or be We quite it will not change the minds of the anti gun crowd . In My opinion there is not alot of fence sitters out there . I'm not going to bash someone for making the fight in thier own way atleast they are getting out and doing somthing and that is more than most .
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Old June 20, 2014, 12:37 PM   #19
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenlobo
...it also gets us in the media too. I'm not denying what you say I just think we get the greater benefit...
Do you have any actual evidence to support that claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenlobo
...everytime we open carry at their rallies & no one gets hurt it knocks down their argument that guns are the problem.
Do you have any actual evidence to support that claim?

It appears that you really have no clue about how people actually perceive things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zincwarrior
...Leave the firepower at home or you're playing right into their hands and will do more for their cause than they can.
I can almost see the headline:
Quote:
Peaceful Pro-Safety March Disrupted by Armed Protestors
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Old June 20, 2014, 12:48 PM   #20
Theohazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca
If you ignore the anti-gun rally, it won't get much attention. Once you people show up with all your "assault weapons" slung over your shoulders, all you're going to do is attract a lot more media attention to the people you are counter-protesting.

Dumb, dumb, dumb. Count me out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenlobo
I don't know, White Eagle, it also gets us in the media too.
But does it do so in a good way? You may have noticed the negative press open carry has attracted lately. Our opponents are willing to twist otherwise innocent gestures into something sinister if it suits their purposes. Are you sure your group will be able to keep that from happening?
Quote:
Originally Posted by boltomatic
I suggest leaving the guns at home. First of all, the rally has nothing to do with concealed or open carry. Secondly, its only going to give the protesters more "ammo" (pun intended). They will point out that the rally had nothing to do with carry laws, and therefore we were being unecessarily dangerous by bringing the guns, and we didn't even understand the law they are supporting. Of course, none of that is true, but they will say it is and people will believe them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats McGee
darrenlobo, you do understand that the antigunner folks are pretty likely to hit the press with tales about how your group threatened them, right? It's not like it hasn't happened before.
Darrenlobo, there's reason you've gotten so many comments like these: It has become obvious to most gun people that rallies like this only hurt our cause. These open-carry rallies have done more to rally people against us than Moms Demand Action ever has.

In my opinion, the best way to address this gun control rally is to ignore it. As soon as your group shows up they're going to get more attention. And if your group shows up with holstered handguns and slung rifles, it will be exactly what gun control groups want: Bad press for gun owners that makes all of us look like bullies or worse.
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Last edited by Tom Servo; June 20, 2014 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Attack the idea, not the person
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Old June 20, 2014, 04:41 PM   #21
Art Eatman
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FWIW, my opinion derives from forty-seven years of watching (and being involved in) the "gun control wars".

The problem for me is that I'm not young enough to know everything.
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Old June 20, 2014, 05:13 PM   #22
Glenn E. Meyer
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The game is not the hard core antis. It is the folks in the middle who may be neutral. They can be swayed by inappropriate and aggressive looking folk.

My opinion is based on the research of opinion change and the specifics about gun attitudes.

I see nothing useful in the Deliverance Cosplay we have seen.
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Old June 20, 2014, 05:16 PM   #23
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God these things are stupid... Idk why they keep doing them. Count me out. Waaaaaay out. I hear enough of this nonsense from the tacticool bubbas in the LGS.

Ever hear the saying 'no news is good news' thats pretty much how I view gun rights. Mass media has moved on. No one cares except that antis that always do and they are so easily ignored.

Then these noble "DEFENDERS OF THE 2ND AMENDMENT" do something like this and we look foolish and alienate the people who while don't have and interest of owning and using guns or heck are even scared of them but respect our right to do so.

Those people deserve our respect 100 fold because they've given us as gun owners our freedoms not necessarily thru agreement but understanding.
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Old June 20, 2014, 05:30 PM   #24
Glenn E. Meyer
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I should mention a well known psychology factor called the Inoculation effect. When you make an ill conceived argument for something, the target develops defensive cognitive attitudes against your position. Later, they will not be convinced by better arguments.

I can make an argument for owning EBRs but if a person has seen the Chipolte Two and thinks they are nuts or dangerous - they might not look favorably towards owning them. Then a good argument will be ignored.

The OC demos that we have seen may be prime examples of this. Probably some criminologist is testing it.
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Old June 20, 2014, 06:05 PM   #25
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"Probably some criminologist is testing it."

Or a shrink is writing a paper for submission to the Journal of Abnormal Psychology.
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