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Old May 22, 2014, 07:15 PM   #1
feets
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More open carry guys scaring the public

More guys got together for a "rally" to support open carry. They selected an unusual part of town for such a demonstration. I didn't expect the neighborhood to be a hotbed of gun interest but I didn't plan the event.
It amounted to a bunch of guys carrying their ARs and various other long arms in public. Doing that is completely legal in Texas.

The biggest thing that seemed to come from it was a bunch of locals feeling uncomfortable (dare I say afraid?) in their own neighborhood due to a bunch of gun nuts running around.

Some of the guys went so far as to carry their arms into some of the local eateries for lunch.

That's generally frowned upon when the location sells alcoholic beverages. Even Texas has limits.

I'm very much a gun rights supporter but some people need to think about what kind of image they are portraying. It ends up hurting the cause they are trying to support.

Their actions were, at most, slightly better than the freaks who antagonize the police by strutting around in open carry areas with a gun and video camera so they can post the results on YouTube.

Last edited by Tom Servo; May 25, 2014 at 01:02 PM.
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Old May 22, 2014, 08:04 PM   #2
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Just because you CAN do something does not mean one should. Things like this do not help us. What they serve to do is tip those on the fence into the arms of the people who want to ban guns.
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Old May 22, 2014, 08:22 PM   #3
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As much attention as this issue has been getting its making me start to believe that some of these "demonstrators" might be playing for the other team
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Old May 22, 2014, 08:38 PM   #4
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A good way to change people's perceptions is to engage in the behavior while being polite and acting like a intelligent adult. If they behaved as rational polite and intelligent adults while carrying a firearm they may have changed some minds
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Old May 22, 2014, 09:06 PM   #5
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Step 1) Eliminate any and all items of military or tactical nature.
If you must carry a rifle, grandpa's old wood stocked 270 bolt gun over your shoulder. Do not wear camo or 5.11 gear. Do not roll your AR through a Tapco catalog and sling in a tacticool chest carry fashion.

Step 2) Do not be "cool" or stylish in a gun kind of way. Sure, you can wear your Miculek wannabe S&W shooting team shirt. It's colorful, tasteful, and far from threatening. Wearing sniper this and Death From Afar that will not sit well with non-gunners.

Step 3) Be open, friendly, and approachable. Getting loud, making fun of others (even those in your group), and being obnoxious is not going to make members of the public want to welcome you to their area.

Step 4) Respect others around you and the area you are in. It doesn't matter if you're 100 feet from your front door. Chances are good the people around you will feel that you're invading their territory. Some kind of gathering across town might be a topic of discussion. Some kind of gathering where you live or in places you frequent becomes an invasion.

Step 5) Never argue or fight with those of opposing views. Remember that it's the bigger man who can turn his back. Antis will confront you. Allow them to be the fool. Don't get suckered into an ugly situation. Wrestling with a pig never ends well. If you can't keep a level head, calm voice, and avoid smart remarks, find the guy who can and allow him to do the talking.

Which group looks more inviting to the general public?



or




You have to look at things through the public eye. I dare say the majority of Americans don't hold a forceful opinion in this matter. Be careful that you don't push them away.

Courtesy, integrity, honesty, and respect will open more doors than acting like a thug.
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Old May 22, 2014, 09:44 PM   #6
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I am a firm believer in open carry. I also think carrying a riffle or shotgun in places they're not normally seen hurts the cause.
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Old May 22, 2014, 10:49 PM   #7
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Reminds me of the whole "Chipotle" thing that happened recently. Now the restaurant won't allow anyone carry a firearm in. That's why I CCW, I don't want the attention and no one needs to know that I am carrying.

I like what was said earlier;

"Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should."
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Old May 23, 2014, 10:58 AM   #8
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Apparently some people don't know the purpose of a peaceful rally. It's is NOT for shocking/scaring people and even if the rally is for open carry, bringing guns really misses the point. The idea of a peaceful rally is to show our politicians and other citizens that there is a large mass of voters (citizens) who believe in a cause or idea enough to set aside whatever else they might be doing and march or rally together to show their solidarity and devotion of belief. So the real effectiveness comes from numbers; not carrying guns or radical signs/clothes or messages.

Which is more effective in a human rights respecting democratic country: 500 protesters with guns? Or 50,000 unarmed citizens in the street?

I have attended OC/2A rallies at our states Capitol, and never OC'd, not once. I have always felt that being another warm body to add to crowd was far more important than bringing a gun!
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Old May 23, 2014, 05:06 PM   #9
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I'm always amazed at the absolute idiocy of people who open carry long guns into private businesses. I don't think it should be illegal, but I still think it's a terrible idea.

Heck, most gun shops and ranges won't even let you bring in an uncased long gun. At the shop/range where I used to work, we got really alert when someone walked in with an uncased long gun: We'd make sure to take it from him, clear it, and then loan him a case while he was in the store.

And these people think they're helping our cause!?! It makes me so angry to see them actively working against our gun rights, even if that's not their intention. If I said what I truly think about them, my post would be deleted and I'd probably get a forum infraction, so I'll just leave it at that...
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Old May 25, 2014, 12:12 AM   #10
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Isn't there a better way to demonstrate for open carry, a way that will show people that gun owners are not dangerous?
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Old May 25, 2014, 02:08 AM   #11
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I am a staunch supporter of Second Amendment rights. I believe everyone that is mentally sound and legally eligible should have the right to carry a gun. However, I still can't understand the desire to open carry other than to say, "Hey, look at me. I have a gun." For me, concealed carry is exactly that. I tell no one I have a gun and frankly, it's no one's business other than mine. If the need ever arose that I would need a gun, every tactical advantage would be lost by open carry. In my opinion, open carry makes one a target for those that are planning on perpetrating a crime. Further, open carry makes one a target of opportunity for some who might think about acquiring a gun without going thru the cumbersome steps of filling out a form and taking money out of the wallet.
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Old May 25, 2014, 02:37 AM   #12
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I don't think OC is a good idea in general in MOST situations, not all.

The guys posting videos of YouTube strolling down main street with ARs and AKs at low ready with 3 point slings frankly... tick me off. Badly. They seem totally offended and flustered when an LEO approaches them just to ask what they are doing in most of the videos. It's just ATTENTION seeking! There are so many ways to go about supporting and upholding gun rights that do not involver that kind of behavior.

They are doing so much more harm than good.
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Old May 25, 2014, 06:43 AM   #13
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Does open carrying in public hurt the right to bear arms? Im not certain that it does or that it doesnt. I have never seen any of the open carry rallies turn violent and that is a good point to make about target hardening. Lots of trouble and violence at the former Occupy Wall St gatherings, but no trouble and civilized behavior at the open carry rallies.

Open carrying does have its time and place and does harden soft targets.
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Old May 25, 2014, 10:07 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnelmore
Does open carrying in public hurt the right to bear arms?
It certainly does when it's part of an open carry protest, with hordes of people wearing holstered handguns and slung long guns. Look at California: They had open carry demonstrations to protest their restrictive open carry laws (it was illegal to open carry a loaded firearm). What happened? They scared the public into supporting a complete statewide ban on open carry. Now look at Starbucks and Chipotle: These stupid protests convinced these companies to ban guns in their stores. When will it end? When will these open carry activists realize they're hurting our cause and helping the anti-gunners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnelmore
Open carrying does have its time and place
I agree. Which I why I want these protests to stop before more states ban open carry.
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Old May 25, 2014, 10:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
Posted by johnelmore: Does open carrying in public hurt the right to bear arms? Im not certain that it does or that it doesnt.
Open carrying has resulted in restrictive legislation in CA and in urban areas of MO.

Open carry demonstrations have also resulted in decisions by property owners to prohibit both open and concealed carry on their property.

Quote:
I have never seen any of the open carry rallies turn violent and that is a good point to make about target hardening.
I cannot see how the latter follows from the former.

Quote:
Open carrying does have its time and place...
Undoubtedly. On a horse, for example, or when hunting with a handgun.

Quote:
...and does harden soft targets.
I don't see how displaying a weapon "hardens" anything. It would likely dissuade a violent criminal attacker who could not attack from behind or from within arms, reach, but it cannot make the attacker impervious to bats, blades, bricks, or bullets.

Last edited by OldMarksman; May 25, 2014 at 10:24 AM.
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Old May 25, 2014, 01:18 PM   #16
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Open carry protest is a type of tactic that has been used by many groups in the past. Exercise your rights, out in the open, defend your position calmly.
*When challenged, require a rational explanation, and continue to debate calmly. *Failure to exercise your rights could result in the loss of those rights, aka *"use or loose it".
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Old May 25, 2014, 01:22 PM   #17
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How many threads do we need on this topic? I'm just curious.
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Old May 25, 2014, 01:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zxcvbob
How many threads do we need on this topic? I'm just curious.
As many as it takes to get these guys to stop handing victories to the anti-gun folks.

But at the moment I only see two active threads on this subject, and they're on slightly different topics. The other one is about the Chipotle protests, and this one is about other protests after the Chipotle ones.
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Old May 25, 2014, 11:40 PM   #19
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this open carry display is no different that the gay pride displays. each is making a case for their rights that have been suppressed and many in the public "feel" uncomfortable with those rights.

however, there are less "in your face" ways of expressing your rights without being obnoxious.
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Old May 25, 2014, 11:59 PM   #20
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I open carry a pistol on occasion. The truth is where I live if you don't make a show of carrying your gun, and just go about your business no one seems to care or pay much attention.

I am sure that attitude would change if I walked into the grocery store with an AK-47 slung over my shoulder. While I agree that it is the right of the individual to do that in some places it doesn't make that activity smart, or necessary. It is quite clear that most doing it are seeking a confrontation of some sort, either with police, or anti-gun folks. To what positive end I have no idea.
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Old May 26, 2014, 12:25 AM   #21
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Taking new shooters to the range will change more hearts and minds than marching in the streets.
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Old May 26, 2014, 12:34 AM   #22
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Quote:
*Failure to exercise your rights could result in the loss of those rights, aka *"use or loose it".
Could you provide an example of when that has actually happened?
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Old May 26, 2014, 12:53 AM   #23
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Could you provide an example of when that has actually happened?
California.

The vast majority of people bought into the idea that only cops and robbers carried guns- it was not something that was done- not "the norm" ..... then when a few people actually tried to excercise their rights that they nominally had, it was considered "scary" enough that it was outlawed outright. It did not start like that, but little by little, one step at a time, California gun owners have been divided and marginialized ...... even now, there are people on this board attacking the OC advocates as hurting gun rights for trying to excercise the rights they nominally had...... this smacks of blaming a fellow victim for angering the attackers.

A Right IS like a muscle- unused, it will wither.

A good analogy is this: If you sit on your couch and eat twinkies and watch 12 hours of whatever drek there is on TV, go to bed telling yourself you feel fine, and repeat daily for a decade and then get up one day and decide you are gonna dead lift your body weight .... you are going to hurt yourself.
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Old May 26, 2014, 12:56 AM   #24
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C'mon. That first picture looks more like a victory celebration in a middle Eastern war zone du jour than an OC rally. That tells me you really couldn't find any instances/pictures of kooks acting obnoxiously at a rally. Disingenuous.
Might as well cover 'The Evils of Hunting' while showing the baby buffalo scene from Dances With Wolves.
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Old May 26, 2014, 01:03 AM   #25
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California
On the contrary, that would be an example of the exercise causing the right to be curtailed.
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