September 24, 2017, 10:03 AM | #1 |
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FFL Responsibility
A situation came up at one of our retail locations the other day. The store manager stated that a guy came into the store with three Glock auto sears. The guy wanted to know what we would pay for all of them. It was obvious from the guys statements that he had acquired them illegally. The manager told the guy to take the parts, leave the store and don't ever come back.
The manager called me and asked what I think he should have done. I told him that I would have probably confiscated them and called the ATF. He said he never really got his hands on them or he might have done that. I'm just looking for opinions on what the FFLs responsibilities are in situations like that. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
September 24, 2017, 11:13 AM | #2 |
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I don't think you would want to take possession. First, you don't want possession of stolen goods. Second, "confiscating" might wind up as theft in the eyes of the law. If you want the law involved, let them figure it out.
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September 24, 2017, 11:34 AM | #3 |
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You do not know that they were stolen; they could have been made by the guy in question in his garage. I might have tried to at least get his name, politely ask him how he came into possession, etc., and then turned that over to the ATF.
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September 24, 2017, 01:08 PM | #4 | |
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I never assumed that the guy stole them. He could have very well made them. He could have even bought them. Either way, he was not a licensed manufacturer, nor did he have an FFL of any kind. So, he was in possession of them illegally. |
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September 24, 2017, 01:17 PM | #5 |
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I take it that these sears were not just sears for a semi-auto Glock but that they would be used to make a Glock into a full auto pistol?
Is it really THAT easy to make a Glock full auto? I may have to reconsider owning a Glock. (not!) |
September 24, 2017, 01:17 PM | #6 |
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Yeah, confiscating them would have been a terrible idea. First, an FFL isn't a law enforcement entity, and confiscating them would have been a vigilante act in my opinion. Usually law enforcement discourages vigilanteism.
Second, taking them could have opened you up to all sorts of liability, from having illegal items on your premises to perhaps theft (if the items turned out to be legal). Also, what if you had had to use force after the guy realized you were confiscating the items? I managed at two different FFLs over the last six years, and I had things like that happen several times. Almost always it was a customer who didn't realize they had made an illegal SBR or AOW, and in every case the very first thing I would do is tell the customer to get his illegal firearm (or the part that made it illegal) out of our store immediately.
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September 24, 2017, 01:24 PM | #7 | |
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My point is that you're not a law enforcement officer and it's not your responsibility to determine if something like that is illegal or not. And it's certainly not your responsibility to take vigilante-type action after making that determination, at least not in a case like this where nobody's safety was in immediate risk. Call law enforcement if you feel it's warranted, but you don't need to try to perform the duties of law enforcement yourself.
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September 24, 2017, 02:28 PM | #8 | |
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There are no pre1986 full auto Glock 18s registered with the ATF. I called the manager in question. He said the guy bought them online and told him they were for airsoft guns and they work in a real Glock. So now the picture is a little clearer. The guy was kinda ignorant of the legalities of possessing the things. |
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September 24, 2017, 02:35 PM | #9 |
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Any chance they were one of the unfinished kits sold online?
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September 24, 2017, 06:11 PM | #10 | |
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But it's mostly irrelevant whether or not they were illegal. Either way, it's a bad idea to play vigilante and confiscate them. And it's also a bad idea to intentionally take possession of possible illegal items. Let law enforcement deal with that, that's their job.
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September 24, 2017, 08:22 PM | #11 | |
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Here's the thing: people talk drivel all day long at gun shop counters. There's a chance they weren't even real auto sears. Getting into a physical altercation while trying to confiscate them? Nope. Not worth it.
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September 24, 2017, 09:07 PM | #12 |
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Thanks for all the input.
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September 25, 2017, 12:18 PM | #13 |
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Is an FFL a mandatory reporter?
As a minister, if I am made aware of certain activities I am bound by law to report them or at least what I know of them. Is this true of an FFL too? |
September 26, 2017, 03:35 AM | #14 |
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In the strictest sense, taking them would have put you in possession of an illegal item and subject to prosecution. Some people, SJWs like news anchors or etc, can get by with that but a FFL in Georgia likely wouldn't qualify.
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September 26, 2017, 10:59 PM | #15 | ||
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I don't buy the guys innocence explanation so much, but then again it would truly take an idiot to try and sell a known illegal item to a FFL holder... Someone who will obviously have a good understanding of the law. |
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September 26, 2017, 11:16 PM | #16 | |
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First, that's not a logical equivalency: You're referring to a situation where someone passes illegal fake bills to a bank teller. At the moment of transfer, the bank teller wouldn't have necessarily known they were illegal. In the OP's scenario he was referring to he used the word "confiscate"; the manager would have actively taken items from someone that he knew at the time were illegal. There's a difference. Second, I never said anything about anyone being prosecuted, the other guy did. I simply said it's a bad idea to intentionally take possession of illegal items. And I stand by that statement. Considering an FFL can have its premises inspected and inventoried by the ATF at any time (yes, I know the restrictions and how often they can do this, I just don't want to get into too many details), it's probably not a good idea for an FFL to have illegal firearms on the premises. I've been through several of these inspections, and each time it was completely unannounced; an ATF agent simply walked in and showed their badge.
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September 26, 2017, 11:29 PM | #17 |
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Is a Glock auto sear by itself illegal, or is it only illegal if you also possess a Glock pistol it will function in?
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September 26, 2017, 11:52 PM | #18 | ||
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I'm pretty sure that the parts required to make a Glock full-auto are considered a machine gun by themselves (usually that's just a different backplate). https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/at..._lqEwve2AGbzOg Quote:
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September 27, 2017, 04:12 AM | #19 |
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And I said "In the strictest sense, taking them would have put you in possession of an illegal item and subject to prosecution."
Meaning mere possession might get you prosecuted. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't but I wouldn't bet my freedom, my life savings and/or my FFL on the later. |
September 28, 2017, 02:34 AM | #20 |
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Contact LE/ATFE, make copies of the video recording available if asked. Otherwise, smile politely and invite the individual to leave the premises. Immediately.
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October 1, 2017, 02:05 AM | #21 |
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Im not sure if there is any legal duty here.
But baring that knowledge I would have handled it just the way it happen. Take your parts and get the hell out and don't come back. |
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