FBI legal handgun lock?

scpapa · May 6, 2014, 03:32 PM

I was reading this article ( http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/05/06/biometric-gun-lock-has-fingerprint-scanner/?intcmp=features ) and it states that the gun lock is "FBI legal".
What is "legal" about it?
Does the ATF know that the FBI is encroaching on its domain?

Rick

**Tom Servo** · May 6, 2014, 04:47 PM

I don't know of anything that's FBI legal, but there are several designs that are approved for use by law enforcement. Mostly, it's just a generic endorsement.

That said, trigger locks aren't something the ATF controls, so nobody's really stomping around their sandbox on this.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 6, 2014, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Except in this case, the lock is FBI compliant and detachable.

If the basic rule of law is that "That which is not illegal is legal," and the FBI does not mandate or approve gun locks, then I suppose one could say this is "FBI legal." However, for something to be "compliant," there must be a standard or a requirement for it to comply with. I don't think there is any FBI standard for gun locks, therefore this statement is incorrect, false, and misleading.

By the original premise, this thing is also CIA-legal, NSA-legal, NASA-legal, Corps of Engineers-legal, NCIS-legal, and DoD-legal.

Man, if it's THAT good we should all buy it immediately!

**Tom Servo** · May 6, 2014, 05:45 PM

Quote:

By the original premise, this thing is also CIA-legal, NSA-legal, NASA-legal, Corps of Engineers-legal, NCIS-legal, and DoD-legal.

Don't forget Special Forces legal! I'm gonna mark everything in the store that way now.

Oruglock · May 6, 2014, 05:54 PM

The article says FBI compliant, not FBI legal.
A Google search for FBI compliant has no valid results.

The product's website makes no such claim for either FBI compliance or FBI legality, so it appears to be something Fox News invented.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 6, 2014, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oruglock

The product's website makes no such claim for either FBI compliance or FBI legality, so it appears to be something Fox News invented.

Yes, they do. It took me awhile to find it ... and then you have to wonder what it means. It's in their downloadable Media Kit:

Quote:

Designed in Detroit, Michigan and made in the USA,
IDENTILOCK™ features a quick-charge lithium ion
battery, enlarged F.B.I. compliant fingerprint sensor
(for ease of use under stress) and a spring-loaded
patented design for access in under one second.

I also discovered that the battery life in standby mode is just 30 days. If the battery dies you're back to needing a key to access the firearm. That's simply unacceptable. In standby mode I would expect a minimum of six months, and I would hope for at least a year.

Evan Thomas · May 6, 2014, 07:54 PM

So it's the fingerprint sensor, not the lock itself, that's FBI certified. And yes, the FBI does certify those. From the FBI's website:
The products listed are certified by the FBI as having been tested and found to be in compliance with the FBI’s Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System Image Quality Specifications. The review of the test data was conducted by the Technology Evaluation Standards Test Unit, a part of the Biometric Center of Excellence led by the Criminal Justice Information Services Division. The certification process is not intended to endorse one product over another—it merely verifies that the product meets FBI standards.
It's a biometric thing...

scpapa · May 6, 2014, 08:53 PM

Yeah, the encroachment thing was sarcasm.
So the sensor is compliant, but the battery life, therefore the effectiveness, sucks.

Rick

**Aguila Blanca** · May 6, 2014, 09:09 PM

Yes, it's only the figerprint sensor that's FBI-compliant. And:

Quote:

The certification process is not intended to endorse one product over another—it merely verifies that the product meets FBI standards.

In other words, the sensor itself may work but the lock may still be a steaming pile of excrement.

With lousy battery life.

Don P · May 8, 2014, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Don't forget Special Forces legal! I'm gonna mark everything in the store that way now

That should make slow moving inventory fly off the shelves in record numbers.

**44 AMP** · May 8, 2014, 11:15 AM

It's a fancy (biometric) TRIGGER LOCK.

I stand (sit, actually), where I always have been, that a trigger lock (any kind) on a loaded gun is a STUPID idea.

And that any lock on an unloaded gun is a foolish thing.

Lock the gun in something, fine. Lock the ammo in something, fine. Lock both separately, even better.

But don't think you are better off with a loaded gun with a lock on/in it. You aren't, and are quite possibly actually worse off.

62coltnavy · May 28, 2014, 01:02 AM

Why on earth would I want my ammo locked in a different container than my (I presume you mean unloaded) firearm? It is bad enough having one lock between you and a firearm when you need it--and if you don't need a lock (e.g., no children), then there is no point in locking up your gun at all. There are only two of us in my house, and none of my guns have locks.

JimmyR · May 28, 2014, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 62coltnavy

Why on earth would I want my ammo locked in a different container than my (I presume you mean unloaded) firearm? It is bad enough having one lock between you and a firearm when you need it--and if you don't need a lock (e.g., no children), then there is no point in locking up your gun at all. There are only two of us in my house, and none of my guns have locks.

Guns should be locked up for the same reason we carry them- because we never know what the day will bring. Uuauthorized access doesn't mean just the little 4 foot boogers running around some homes, but the 6 foot burgler looking to make a few hundred bucks with your gun collection.

**44 AMP** · May 28, 2014, 10:42 AM

Also remember that there is a difference between storage and "ready access storage".

Keeping the guns and ammo separate is an old tradition, mostly because of the simple fact that if someone gets your unloaded gun, they do not get ammo for it at the same time.

Me, I rely on the confusion factor.

I've got so many different calibers and guns, stored in such a haphazard fashion that the odds are slim of someone getting a gun and the right ammo for it!

I sleep just fine at night, knowing that if a bad guy does get one of my .45s, the .38 ammo he grabs won't be much risk to me.

And the one within MY reach DOES have the right ammo with it!

(sarcasm, if you weren't sure)

May 6, 2014, 03:32 PM	#1
scpapa Member Join Date: December 23, 2007 Location: Central South Carolina Posts: 89	FBI legal handgun lock? I was reading this article ( http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/05/06/biometric-gun-lock-has-fingerprint-scanner/?intcmp=features ) and it states that the gun lock is "FBI legal". What is "legal" about it? Does the ATF know that the FBI is encroaching on its domain? Rick __________________ NRA Training Counselor NRA Advanced Pistol Instructor NRA RTBAV Regional Counselor Member IALEFI, SCLEOA

May 6, 2014, 04:47 PM	#2
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	I don't know of anything that's FBI legal, but there are several designs that are approved for use by law enforcement. Mostly, it's just a generic endorsement. That said, trigger locks aren't something the ATF controls, so nobody's really stomping around their sandbox on this. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

May 6, 2014, 07:54 PM	#7
Evan Thomas Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2008 Location: Upper midwest Posts: 5,631	So it's the fingerprint sensor, not the lock itself, that's FBI certified. And yes, the FBI does certify those. From the FBI's website: The products listed are certified by the FBI as having been tested and found to be in compliance with the FBI’s Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System Image Quality Specifications. The review of the test data was conducted by the Technology Evaluation Standards Test Unit, a part of the Biometric Center of Excellence led by the Criminal Justice Information Services Division. The certification process is not intended to endorse one product over another—it merely verifies that the product meets FBI standards. It's a biometric thing... __________________ Never let anything mechanical know you're in a hurry. Last edited by Evan Thomas; May 30, 2014 at 11:36 AM. Reason: holy moly, I can't believe I misspelled that.

May 6, 2014, 08:53 PM	#8
scpapa Member Join Date: December 23, 2007 Location: Central South Carolina Posts: 89	Yeah, the encroachment thing was sarcasm. So the sensor is compliant, but the battery life, therefore the effectiveness, sucks. Rick __________________ NRA Training Counselor NRA Advanced Pistol Instructor NRA RTBAV Regional Counselor Member IALEFI, SCLEOA

May 8, 2014, 11:15 AM	#11
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	It's a fancy (biometric) TRIGGER LOCK. I stand (sit, actually), where I always have been, that a trigger lock (any kind) on a loaded gun is a STUPID idea. And that any lock on an unloaded gun is a foolish thing. Lock the gun in something, fine. Lock the ammo in something, fine. Lock both separately, even better. But don't think you are better off with a loaded gun with a lock on/in it. You aren't, and are quite possibly actually worse off. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

May 6, 2014, 05:54 PM	#5
Oruglock Member Join Date: April 26, 2014 Posts: 92	The article says FBI compliant, not FBI legal. A Google search for FBI compliant has no valid results. The product's website makes no such claim for either FBI compliance or FBI legality, so it appears to be something Fox News invented.

May 28, 2014, 01:02 AM	#12
62coltnavy Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2011 Posts: 356	Why on earth would I want my ammo locked in a different container than my (I presume you mean unloaded) firearm? It is bad enough having one lock between you and a firearm when you need it--and if you don't need a lock (e.g., no children), then there is no point in locking up your gun at all. There are only two of us in my house, and none of my guns have locks.

May 28, 2014, 10:42 AM	#14
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	Also remember that there is a difference between storage and "ready access storage". Keeping the guns and ammo separate is an old tradition, mostly because of the simple fact that if someone gets your unloaded gun, they do not get ammo for it at the same time. Me, I rely on the confusion factor. I've got so many different calibers and guns, stored in such a haphazard fashion that the odds are slim of someone getting a gun and the right ammo for it! I sleep just fine at night, knowing that if a bad guy does get one of my .45s, the .38 ammo he grabs won't be much risk to me. And the one within MY reach DOES have the right ammo with it! (sarcasm, if you weren't sure) __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.