On new 870s...

Dave McC · July 21, 2000, 11:27 AM

Folks, just got off the line with Remington Customer service,and heard a few things I may or may not quite believe...

As anyone who's been here any length of time knows,I've been using 870s since about 1958, and taught the weapon to hundreds of Correctional Officers,and I'm an enthusiatic booster of the arm.

But there's been some changes afoot, and I called Remington to clear up a few things.

First, after examining one of the new Express models with the keyed safety, I asked the nice lady at Remington if they would be standard. She stated that ALL new 870s would have the keyed safety,and from her tone I gathered she was tired of answering this.The old and new safeties are interchangeable,but Remington will not supply any old style safeties to convert the new style. Apparently, the aftermarket Bighead safeties will work, for those who get one of the keyed jobs and want to switch.

Also....

All express models will be made with the plastic triggerplate and all 870s will be available only with the plastic shell follower. Wingmasters will have the steel triggerplate as of old, but they do not furnish the steel shell follower even as a spare part. She recommended some of the parts vendors and is sending me a list of same that may carry metal shell holders. Steel triggerplates may be purchased from Remington, tho I didn't ask the price.BTW, never seen a problem with the plastic follower,but I've heard of a few going wrong in 1100s and 11-87s. Those were trap and clay guns, shooting lots of rounds.

Also, she confirmed what I thought, ALL 870s except the Special Field models have complete parts interchangeability within gauge. That means parts, if ever needed, will be available as long as the 870(still America's most popular shotgun) is made and sold.

IMO, Remington,darn it, is going a little too PC for my tastes,and since there's lots of used 870s out there, maybe that's the best option until Remington comes to its senses and goes back to making shotguns instead of money.

Maybe I'll post a thread about buying a used pump gun, for the information some folks may need and be a little shy about getting...

nedfig · July 21, 2000, 12:02 PM

I'm glad Mossberg doesn't do this kinda stuff.

Dave McC · July 21, 2000, 02:50 PM

Maybe,Nedfig, maybe not. Just for fun, check the archives and see how many folks are asking how to fix Mossbergs vs Remingtons. The 870 is the finest pump available,and the PC #$%^&* from the brass there doesn't change that.

johnbt · July 21, 2000, 03:17 PM

Dave McC - Good idea on tips when buying a used pump. Last I read there were 7,000,000-plus 870's out there. John

Dave McC · July 21, 2000, 03:25 PM

Thanks, John,we're on real time here(G). Check the other thread...

JNewell · July 21, 2000, 04:01 PM

A few follow-up points.

First, as I mentioned, Brownells is selling truly excellent quality stainless (bright) and aluminum (red ano) followers for the 870 for less than $10. I bought one of the aluminum followers and give it high marks for quality.

Second, a question -- in the old posts there is a thread where one or more folks say that they talked to Remington and not only were the metal trigger plates not available on "sporting" 870s, they would not be furnished on the PMs -- and would not even be available as a part. Sounds like that was wrong.

PJR · July 21, 2000, 05:14 PM

Standard replacements for an 870 should be the large sized safety and the magazine follower. The large safety made a real difference when deer hunting. I can reliably hit the safety as my finger goes to the trigger. Much faster than a top tang safety.

[This message has been edited by PJR (edited July 21, 2000).]

Dave McC · July 21, 2000, 05:27 PM

John,we won't know for sure until someone either can or cannot get one. A query, has anyone reported problems with the plastic ones?

As for the metal followers,I might get one for the bird 870. It's the sole 12 ga here w/o one.

PJR, I've no trouble hitting the standard safety. This comes into the realm of personal choice. The bigger the safety is,IMO, the more likely it is to get knocked off accidentally. But, I've no reliable input on that happening.

old hawk · July 21, 2000, 06:31 PM

somethin aint right here, i was told that the new express mags with the keyed safety cant accept the replacement saftey (large head0 or the old one?
am i bein bs'ed here or what by pc poeples?
i know if ya twist the saftey it WILL LOCK.
i dont care for that much at all.
i do however like my black matte 870 alot,it did take a bit of work to smooth the rails and inner reciever face somewhat and the slot on the bolt for the ejector.now its nice n smooth just like the prior ones i had years back.............

Bennett Richards · July 22, 2000, 01:37 AM

If you think the metal trigger plates are available, just try and order one. They are no longer made and the parts department ran out at least 8 months ago. I have talked to several gunsmiths who specialize in 870's and they see no problem with the delarin trigger plates as the can take a much greater beating than aluminum and will never corrode or oxidize.. and are self lubing. The follower is another story.
I have also heard that the safety from old to new dsign will NOT interchange. I have gotten bad info from Reminton CS a number of times only to have to teach THEM what was right. Don't bet on an old safety fitting and workin in a new trigger plate.

Ben

Dave McC · July 22, 2000, 06:16 AM

Could be, Ben, note my first line on the opening post.

Again, maybe the best message we can send Remington is to buy used....

Patrick Graham · July 22, 2000, 09:48 AM

Well, I'm bummed about it, just like everyone else.

I hope they don't screw up their rifle line also.

I contacted remington and told them how I felt about it.

************************
[email protected]

I understand that all new 870s will have a keyed safety.

I won't be buying any shotgun with a keyed safety.

I currently have 3 Remington products, One 870 and two 700's.

I know I'm not the only loyal remington user who will not be buying any products with a keyed safety.

Patrick Graham

Postman · July 22, 2000, 11:16 PM

Last week, Wilson/Scattergun Tech sent my Jumbo Head saftey. Five minutes later it was installed. The keyed saftey now sits in a zip lock baggie with the keys.

jtduncan · July 22, 2000, 11:23 PM

Man . . .

I just bought an 870 Express Combo pack with a 26" hunting barrel and 20" defensive barrel used and the safety as I remember was standard. Got it the package for $299 and never fired.

------------------
The Seattle SharpShooter - TFL/GT/UGW/PCT/KTOG

Robb · July 23, 2000, 10:44 AM

Does the 12 and 20 gauge use the same part # for the safety? I'm getting ready to buy a Youth 20 gauge Express 870 and hopefully it won't have the new safety, if so hopefully a new jumbo head one can replace it.

Thanks,
Robb

Dave McC · July 24, 2000, 07:21 AM

Robb, the best answer for that would be asking not Remington, but the aftermarket vendors like Wilson, Vang, et al.

And again, buying used is not only a good message to send to the Brass at Remington, but a cheaper way to get a good, reliable, non PC shotgun....

rellik74 · July 24, 2000, 06:56 PM

I must then keep my old 870 " was Gran pa's" any way

July 21, 2000, 11:27 AM	#1
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Folks, just got off the line with Remington Customer service,and heard a few things I may or may not quite believe... As anyone who's been here any length of time knows,I've been using 870s since about 1958, and taught the weapon to hundreds of Correctional Officers,and I'm an enthusiatic booster of the arm. But there's been some changes afoot, and I called Remington to clear up a few things. First, after examining one of the new Express models with the keyed safety, I asked the nice lady at Remington if they would be standard. She stated that ALL new 870s would have the keyed safety,and from her tone I gathered she was tired of answering this.The old and new safeties are interchangeable,but Remington will not supply any old style safeties to convert the new style. Apparently, the aftermarket Bighead safeties will work, for those who get one of the keyed jobs and want to switch. Also.... All express models will be made with the plastic triggerplate and all 870s will be available only with the plastic shell follower. Wingmasters will have the steel triggerplate as of old, but they do not furnish the steel shell follower even as a spare part. She recommended some of the parts vendors and is sending me a list of same that may carry metal shell holders. Steel triggerplates may be purchased from Remington, tho I didn't ask the price.BTW, never seen a problem with the plastic follower,but I've heard of a few going wrong in 1100s and 11-87s. Those were trap and clay guns, shooting lots of rounds. Also, she confirmed what I thought, ALL 870s except the Special Field models have complete parts interchangeability within gauge. That means parts, if ever needed, will be available as long as the 870(still America's most popular shotgun) is made and sold. IMO, Remington,darn it, is going a little too PC for my tastes,and since there's lots of used 870s out there, maybe that's the best option until Remington comes to its senses and goes back to making shotguns instead of money. Maybe I'll post a thread about buying a used pump gun, for the information some folks may need and be a little shy about getting...

July 21, 2000, 12:02 PM	#2
nedfig Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2000 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 263	I'm glad Mossberg doesn't do this kinda stuff.

July 21, 2000, 02:50 PM	#3
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Maybe,Nedfig, maybe not. Just for fun, check the archives and see how many folks are asking how to fix Mossbergs vs Remingtons. The 870 is the finest pump available,and the PC #$%^&* from the brass there doesn't change that.

July 21, 2000, 03:17 PM	#4
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	Dave McC - Good idea on tips when buying a used pump. Last I read there were 7,000,000-plus 870's out there. John

July 21, 2000, 03:25 PM	#5
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Thanks, John,we're on real time here(G). Check the other thread...

July 21, 2000, 04:01 PM	#6
JNewell Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2000 Posts: 1,092	A few follow-up points. First, as I mentioned, Brownells is selling truly excellent quality stainless (bright) and aluminum (red ano) followers for the 870 for less than $10. I bought one of the aluminum followers and give it high marks for quality. Second, a question -- in the old posts there is a thread where one or more folks say that they talked to Remington and not only were the metal trigger plates not available on "sporting" 870s, they would not be furnished on the PMs -- and would not even be available as a part. Sounds like that was wrong.

July 21, 2000, 05:14 PM	#7
PJR Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2000 Posts: 1,127	Standard replacements for an 870 should be the large sized safety and the magazine follower. The large safety made a real difference when deer hunting. I can reliably hit the safety as my finger goes to the trigger. Much faster than a top tang safety. [This message has been edited by PJR (edited July 21, 2000).]

July 21, 2000, 05:27 PM	#8
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	John,we won't know for sure until someone either can or cannot get one. A query, has anyone reported problems with the plastic ones? As for the metal followers,I might get one for the bird 870. It's the sole 12 ga here w/o one. PJR, I've no trouble hitting the standard safety. This comes into the realm of personal choice. The bigger the safety is,IMO, the more likely it is to get knocked off accidentally. But, I've no reliable input on that happening.

July 21, 2000, 06:31 PM	#9
old hawk Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2000 Location: somewhere,maine. Posts: 175	somethin aint right here, i was told that the new express mags with the keyed safety cant accept the replacement saftey (large head0 or the old one? am i bein bs'ed here or what by pc poeples? i know if ya twist the saftey it WILL LOCK. i dont care for that much at all. i do however like my black matte 870 alot,it did take a bit of work to smooth the rails and inner reciever face somewhat and the slot on the bolt for the ejector.now its nice n smooth just like the prior ones i had years back.............

July 22, 2000, 01:37 AM	#10
Bennett Richards Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1998 Location: Carlsbad, CA USA Posts: 356	If you think the metal trigger plates are available, just try and order one. They are no longer made and the parts department ran out at least 8 months ago. I have talked to several gunsmiths who specialize in 870's and they see no problem with the delarin trigger plates as the can take a much greater beating than aluminum and will never corrode or oxidize.. and are self lubing. The follower is another story. I have also heard that the safety from old to new dsign will NOT interchange. I have gotten bad info from Reminton CS a number of times only to have to teach THEM what was right. Don't bet on an old safety fitting and workin in a new trigger plate. Ben

July 22, 2000, 06:16 AM	#11
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Could be, Ben, note my first line on the opening post. Again, maybe the best message we can send Remington is to buy used....

July 22, 2000, 09:48 AM	#12
Patrick Graham Junior member Join Date: January 18, 1999 Location: Kokomo, Indiana USA Posts: 674	Well, I'm bummed about it, just like everyone else. I hope they don't screw up their rifle line also. I contacted remington and told them how I felt about it. ************************ [email protected] I understand that all new 870s will have a keyed safety. I won't be buying any shotgun with a keyed safety. I currently have 3 Remington products, One 870 and two 700's. I know I'm not the only loyal remington user who will not be buying any products with a keyed safety. Patrick Graham

July 22, 2000, 11:16 PM	#13
Postman Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 1999 Location: Blackrock, CT Posts: 106	Last week, Wilson/Scattergun Tech sent my Jumbo Head saftey. Five minutes later it was installed. The keyed saftey now sits in a zip lock baggie with the keys.

July 22, 2000, 11:23 PM	#14
jtduncan Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 1999 Location: Seattle, Washington, USA Posts: 1,686	Man . . . I just bought an 870 Express Combo pack with a 26" hunting barrel and 20" defensive barrel used and the safety as I remember was standard. Got it the package for $299 and never fired. ------------------ *The Seattle SharpShooter* - TFL/GT/UGW/PCT/KTOG

July 23, 2000, 10:44 AM	#15
Robb Member Join Date: August 8, 1999 Posts: 86	Does the 12 and 20 gauge use the same part # for the safety? I'm getting ready to buy a Youth 20 gauge Express 870 and hopefully it won't have the new safety, if so hopefully a new jumbo head one can replace it. Thanks, Robb

July 24, 2000, 07:21 AM	#16
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Robb, the best answer for that would be asking not Remington, but the aftermarket vendors like Wilson, Vang, et al. And again, buying used is not only a good message to send to the Brass at Remington, but a cheaper way to get a good, reliable, non PC shotgun....

July 24, 2000, 06:56 PM	#17
rellik74 Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2000 Location: Trinidad, Co. , USA Posts: 225	I must then keep my old 870 " was Gran pa's" any way