32sl (self loader) ??

[levallois]

"As for the 351 Winchester round, it is likely the round's success was based on the Win 1907 rifles' reliability rather than its own merit."

There are historic accounts from people who actually used it in anger suggesting that the 351 round outperformed what was expected from its paper ballistics punching holes through bullet-proof vests and car bodies. My father and uncle used it successfully for deer size critters (and smaller) in the 1930s-1950s and only gave it up when they stopped hunting. Which begs the question; if it was so great then why wasn't it chambered in any other rifles? Why weren't more produced? I would hazard a WAG that non-22 caliber semis just weren't that popular with the general public and other firms like Remington had their own semi-auto with their own cartridges to market. One could argue that a cartridge with hot 357 mag ballistics is no great shakes today but back then I bet it was a hot ticket.

John

[bamaranger]

I have a 1977 book entitled Guns of the World, from Peterson Publishing. I believe it is a collection of magazine articles, but am not sure. In it is a chapter/article Written by a Konrad Schreier Jr on the "M1 Carbine".

It seems a well written article. One of the issues the author touches is the selection of the .30 carbine ctg. He calls it "very puzzling" and "complete mystery" the caliber "remains a puzzle". He states that the .30 carbine round was adopted "without any developmental testing, very unusual in the U.S Army"and that Edwin PUGSLEY of Winchester suggested the .30 carbine ctg, and it was developed from a "modification of the .32 SLR".

Now, that was one guys article from over 30 years ago, and who knows if he's got it right. As far as no testing, there was a war on in Europe at that point (June 1940) and the US entry was anticipated. That likely had a strong factor in expediting the "light rifle" project.

[Mike Irwin]

Essentially the military put out a specification for the basic rifle and the cartridge it was to fire.

At least half a dozen inventors/manufacturers proposed rifles for the competition.

What I don't know, though, is whether they also proposed cartridges, or whether Winchester had, in conjunction with the Army, already arrived at the modified .32 SL cartridge PRIOR to the specification being announced.

That seems to be one of the sticking points in the history of the carbine that I have never seen addressed -- when did Winchester propose the .30 Carbine cartridge, and how did it affect the creation of prototyes and ultimate selection of Winchester's design.