how do you come up with the powder load you want

champ198 · November 30, 2009, 01:38 PM

i am getting ready to start loading some rounds for my 25-06 and was looking to get some opinions on how you all start your loading process and move up....do you start say...at 50.0 and load say 4-5 then go to 50.1 then 50.2 or how do you all go about it?

Scorch · November 30, 2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

how do you come up with the powder load you want

Most people who want to retain the use of both eyes and most of their fingers use a reloading manual. First, you buy a reloading manual and sometimes reloading equipment, study the manual to identify the best powder to use with a specific bullet, then start with a mid-range load and see how your gun likes them. If you feel you want to go a bit further, you work up towards the upper loads being careful not to exceed the maximum load.

rwilson452 · November 30, 2009, 02:07 PM

The book says start at the starting load and work up. Generally I don't do that with guns I have been loading for awhile and start a little higher. for the 25-06 I would suspect that moving up in .5 gr increments will get you close to your optimum load.

QBall45 · November 30, 2009, 02:12 PM

How do I come up with my powder charge weights?

First, my Dad always says "why reinvent the wheel? Tweak it sure but don't reinvent what already works"

My loads are developed using data I've pulled from several load manuals & a couple reliable online sources. I put it all together, look it over and there's always a consistent start point and usually a consistent max charge as well.

Please understand hand loading is not rocket science. There is a ton of good info available. Thou you must pay for a lot of it.

I start at the minimum published load & work towards max published load. Working up in .2 grain increments for pistol and .5 grains for rifle loads. Always watching for signs of excess pressure.

champ198 · November 30, 2009, 02:28 PM

thanks for the smartass comment Scorch...not really what i was looking for.....i do have manuals i was wanting to know what imcrements some go up in weather to go up .2 or what that is the info i needed to know...not a smartass comment like yours thanks

Don H · November 30, 2009, 02:37 PM

champ198,

Your original post is very unclear. The portion that reads "looking to get some opinions on how you all start your loading process and move up" sounds very much like someone who is just getting into reloading and hasn't a clue on how to go about it. THAT is why you're getting answers about getting and using a manual as a reference for developing loads.

QBall45 · November 30, 2009, 03:12 PM

I do not believe scorch ment to be smartass in his reply your post. He like myself read your post as someone just starting to get into loading. "We" most always respond to a post that read as yours does as though the person making the original post has very little experience. This is simply due to the title and the manor in which the question is raised in the post.

If you reread my post you will find almost identical comments about a manuel.

These answers are not posted with any disrespect. They are posted for your benefit.

wogpotter · November 30, 2009, 03:14 PM

I do most of the work before I touch a case, or buy any powder at all.

Here's how I do it, YMMV.
I figure out what bullet weight I want first.
I find loads that come as close as possible to 100% filling the case at maximum load density with the bullet type/weight I'm going to want.
Then I look at the details, such as is this listed as an "accuracy" load in the manuals. Do several different manuals have good things to say about the powder?
How well does it meter/measure?

This usually brings the powder type down to 2/3 choices for that particular load. Then I work up a load starting from about halfway up from the highest low load I can find & half way down from the lowest high (maximum) load I can find. I load 5 of these.
I load 5 more at half way between the first load & the the lowest high load, & five more at half way to the highest low load.

These test runs are shot for accuracy & over a chronograph.

I now have information on a load the rifle preferers for accuracy, a load ladder for velocity& charge weight, & some once-fired brass to fine tune the load with.

Next step?
Make my best guess as to how the load(s) I have can be tweaked to become the loads I want. Make those changes, based on the info I got from that first run, load em all up & shoot for accuracy & consistency again. Any load that is higher than the lowest maximum, or lower than the highest minimum I disregard as being at the edge of the performance envelope I'm working in.

Dong it this way generates a lot of good info very quickly in your exact chamber & wastes minimum brass & range time.

champ198 · November 30, 2009, 03:26 PM

im not a rookie with reloading but i do not know it all by any means....i did take it as a smartass comment...i do have a manual many of them as a matter of fat the info i am looking for is do you go up from one load to the next and by how much...i know to watch for pressure signs and so on im not an idiot and not a rookie but im looking for the load my gun likes....should i go up in .5gr increments or .1 or what thats what im looking for...the manual shows the max load for my gun with 4831 powder and a 115 gr NBT at 52.0 grs i show the starting load at 48.0 gr...i started mine at 49.0 loaded 5 and went to 49.5 loaded 5 and then to 50.0....is this the best way to do it or should i go say...49.0-49.1-49.2 and so on...that is what im looking for
i do apologise if i took Scorchs post the wrong way but that is how i took it

darkgael · November 30, 2009, 03:30 PM

Champ:Yep. I'm sorry that you felt that you were being subjected to sarcasm. I have to second the comment about your first post.
My initial impression was the same as DonH.

I start at the lowest load listed for a particular powder/bullet combo. Up until midrange loads, I jump a grain at a time. From that point on, I jump one half grain per. Whenever the group gets to one inch - in a firearm that I know can do that - I stop. I rarely have to go to the max.
Pete

azar92 · November 30, 2009, 05:28 PM

champ198,

In fairness to Scorch your first post does give the impression that you are new to reloading. You don't state your experience and the question is a bit on the vague side. Realize that many people who post questions similar to yours are brand new and may not have carefully read a reloading manual.

To answer your question, there is no "best" way to do it. Or at least, "best" is subjective and everyone will likely have an opinion or two. Here is one way to do it. Use a published max load from a trusted source. Start at 10% below and load a group using 3, 5, 7 shots (or whatever): you decide. Move up in 2% increments until you hit the middle-weight charges. Then move up in 1% increments. So you would load charges at 90% of max, 92%, 94%, 96%, 97%, 98%, 99% and one at max.

As an example:
6.5x55 SE, 130g Nosler Accubond, Reloder 19
Max charge: 47.5g (taken from Nosler #6)***
47.5g x 90% = 42.8g Here, I'd likely bump it up to 43.0g. I like round numbers.

47.5 x 2% = 0.95 grains (round up 1.0) A 1% increase would be roughly 0.5g
43.0g 5 rounds loaded (~91% of book max)
44.0g 5 rounds loaded (~93% of book max)
45.0g 5 rounds loaded (~95% of book max)
45.5g 5 rounds loaded (~96% of book max)
46.0g 5 rounds loaded (~97% of book max)
46.5g 5 rounds loaded (~98% of book max)
47.0g 5 rounds loaded (~99% of book max)
47.5g 5 rounds loaded (100% - MAX CHARGE)

*** This charge is taken from memory. IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILTY TO VERIFY THIS LOAD DATA BEFORE USING.

Kyo · November 30, 2009, 06:58 PM

I looked in my lee manual. it talks about pressure, and FPS, and OAL for my 45 loads.
Then I decided I don't want 900 FPS, or 980 FPS or anything that fast or at that much pressure. Then I looked online for a long time. Handloads.com helped out a bit.
I decided to work my way up to a load I liked. I tried 4.0 with 185g LSWC. I believe most of the shots were ok, 3-4 did not cycle the slide correctly. So, that was too little with Bullseye.
I went to 4.3 it works great, gives no problems. Both my LSWC and the FMJ flat points.
I have read people going as little as 3.3 of bullseye. But obviously every gun is different, and you might have to get a recoil spring that is lighter, probably a hammer spring that is lighter as well since that will affect your recoil.

10-96 · November 30, 2009, 07:15 PM

I steal peeks at the dedicated load books at Gander Mtn, look at my own multiple books, then at my Ken Waters Pet Load Book, and then surf the net. In doing that, usually one powder will start popping up more frequently than the others. Once I get my powder picked out, I go back to my Lyman 49th ed book and get my starting load. I start out .2gr above min and start loading 5 rounds, then increase .2gr and load 5 more rounds, and so on. Little post-it note sticker in the top of my Mtn ctg box helps me keep straight which row is loaded with what. I don't go all benchrest crazy in sosrting my brass, bullets, etc- but I am confident that I'm rolling ammo superior to factory.

wingman · November 30, 2009, 07:16 PM

I load 3 rounds starting with low end of manual work my way up .5 at a time. Once I find a sweet spot I will load 10 or more for testing. I shoot for groups only not hunting so never load max loads I find most rifles shoot more accurate @90% or less of max.

Actually I enjoy the testing part so end up trying numerous combinations.

Added Note: The addition of Laupa Brass has made an nice improvement of groups.

reloader28 · November 30, 2009, 11:33 PM

My method...
I like my hunting loads on the speedy side, so I use my 4 primary books (Hornady, Sierra, Lyman, Speer in that order) and write down the powders with the fastest speeds.

Example= if 3000fps is the fastest in all 4 books, I write down all powders in that speed from all 4 books.
I sometimes find 1 or 2 powders that are listed in all 4 books.
Usually its 3 or 4 powders in 3 of the 4 books.
I pick a powder I like from from the "4 book list" and start 2.5-2 gr under max.(personal preference and experience with this starting point)
I go up from there in .5 gr increments till I get pressure signs. If it dont group good try the other top powder in the "4 book list".
If I still dont have a good group, I'll move to the next list of powders (3 book list).
It rarely takes more than a couple of powders. When I find a good load, I load it again and chrono it to make sure it wasn't a fluke.
I have found my guns like max or near max loads with the top speeds. My worst group is 3/4" in my 30-06. All the rest of the guns are better.
I hope anyone can understand how I do this cause I have a hard time typing what I'm thinking, but this system works very good for me.
Champ...if you're interested and need a better explanation, PM me and I will try to explain better

PS...
I should mention I work up loads at the temp I will be hunting at. If you have a max deer load at 30 degrees and shoot a prairie dog at 95 degrees you could run into serious problems!!

emcon5 · December 1, 2009, 01:23 AM

I use the ladder method.

On edit: Here is another link, with a variation of the ladder: http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html

November 30, 2009, 01:38 PM	#1
champ198 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2008 Posts: 217	how do you come up with the powder load you want i am getting ready to start loading some rounds for my 25-06 and was looking to get some opinions on how you all start your loading process and move up....do you start say...at 50.0 and load say 4-5 then go to 50.1 then 50.2 or how do you all go about it?

November 30, 2009, 02:07 PM	#3
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	The book says start at the starting load and work up. Generally I don't do that with guns I have been loading for awhile and start a little higher. for the 25-06 I would suspect that moving up in .5 gr increments will get you close to your optimum load. __________________ USNRET '61-'81

November 30, 2009, 03:30 PM	#10
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Yep Champ:Yep. I'm sorry that you felt that you were being subjected to sarcasm. I have to second the comment about your first post. My initial impression was the same as DonH. I start at the lowest load listed for a particular powder/bullet combo. Up until midrange loads, I jump a grain at a time. From that point on, I jump one half grain per. Whenever the group gets to one inch - in a firearm that I know can do that - I stop. I rarely have to go to the max. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

November 30, 2009, 06:58 PM	#12
Kyo Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Posts: 897	I looked in my lee manual. it talks about pressure, and FPS, and OAL for my 45 loads. Then I decided I don't want 900 FPS, or 980 FPS or anything that fast or at that much pressure. Then I looked online for a long time. Handloads.com helped out a bit. I decided to work my way up to a load I liked. I tried 4.0 with 185g LSWC. I believe most of the shots were ok, 3-4 did not cycle the slide correctly. So, that was too little with Bullseye. I went to 4.3 it works great, gives no problems. Both my LSWC and the FMJ flat points. I have read people going as little as 3.3 of bullseye. But obviously every gun is different, and you might have to get a recoil spring that is lighter, probably a hammer spring that is lighter as well since that will affect your recoil. __________________ 1. The gun is *always* loaded. 2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. 4. Be be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

November 30, 2009, 07:15 PM	#13
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,159	I steal peeks at the dedicated load books at Gander Mtn, look at my own multiple books, then at my Ken Waters Pet Load Book, and then surf the net. In doing that, usually one powder will start popping up more frequently than the others. Once I get my powder picked out, I go back to my Lyman 49th ed book and get my starting load. I start out .2gr above min and start loading 5 rounds, then increase .2gr and load 5 more rounds, and so on. Little post-it note sticker in the top of my Mtn ctg box helps me keep straight which row is loaded with what. I don't go all benchrest crazy in sosrting my brass, bullets, etc- but I am confident that I'm rolling ammo superior to factory. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

November 30, 2009, 02:12 PM	#4
QBall45 Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2008 Location: South Central Minnesota Posts: 584	How do I come up with my powder charge weights? First, my Dad always says "why reinvent the wheel? Tweak it sure but don't reinvent what already works" My loads are developed using data I've pulled from several load manuals & a couple reliable online sources. I put it all together, look it over and there's always a consistent start point and usually a consistent max charge as well. Please understand hand loading is not rocket science. There is a ton of good info available. Thou you must pay for a lot of it. I start at the minimum published load & work towards max published load. Working up in .2 grain increments for pistol and .5 grains for rifle loads. Always watching for signs of excess pressure.

November 30, 2009, 02:28 PM	#5
champ198 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2008 Posts: 217	thanks for the smartass comment Scorch...not really what i was looking for.....i do have manuals i was wanting to know what imcrements some go up in weather to go up .2 or what that is the info i needed to know...not a smartass comment like yours thanks

November 30, 2009, 02:37 PM	#6
Don H Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2000 Location: SLC,Utah Posts: 2,704	champ198, Your original post is very unclear. The portion that reads "looking to get some opinions on how you all start your loading process and move up" sounds very much like someone who is just getting into reloading and hasn't a clue on how to go about it. THAT is why you're getting answers about getting and using a manual as a reference for developing loads. __________________ Don http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com/forum/

November 30, 2009, 03:12 PM	#7
QBall45 Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2008 Location: South Central Minnesota Posts: 584	I do not believe scorch ment to be smartass in his reply your post. He like myself read your post as someone just starting to get into loading. "We" most always respond to a post that read as yours does as though the person making the original post has very little experience. This is simply due to the title and the manor in which the question is raised in the post. If you reread my post you will find almost identical comments about a manuel. These answers are not posted with any disrespect. They are posted for your benefit.

November 30, 2009, 03:14 PM	#8
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	I do most of the work before I touch a case, or buy any powder at all. Here's how I do it, YMMV. I figure out what bullet weight I want first. I find loads that come as close as possible to 100% filling the case at maximum load density with the bullet type/weight I'm going to want. Then I look at the details, such as is this listed as an "accuracy" load in the manuals. Do several different manuals have good things to say about the powder? How well does it meter/measure? This usually brings the powder type down to 2/3 choices for that particular load. Then I work up a load starting from about halfway up from the highest low load I can find & half way down from the lowest high (maximum) load I can find. I load 5 of these. I load 5 more at half way between the first load & the the lowest high load, & five more at half way to the highest low load. These test runs are shot for accuracy & over a chronograph. I now have information on a load the rifle preferers for accuracy, a load ladder for velocity& charge weight, & some once-fired brass to fine tune the load with. Next step? Make my best guess as to how the load(s) I have can be tweaked to become the loads I want. Make those changes, based on the info I got from that first run, load em all up & shoot for accuracy & consistency again. Any load that is higher than the lowest maximum, or lower than the highest minimum I disregard as being at the edge of the performance envelope I'm working in. Dong it this way generates a lot of good info very quickly in your exact chamber & wastes minimum brass & range time.

November 30, 2009, 03:26 PM	#9
champ198 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2008 Posts: 217	im not a rookie with reloading but i do not know it all by any means....i did take it as a smartass comment...i do have a manual many of them as a matter of fat the info i am looking for is do you go up from one load to the next and by how much...i know to watch for pressure signs and so on im not an idiot and not a rookie but im looking for the load my gun likes....should i go up in .5gr increments or .1 or what thats what im looking for...the manual shows the max load for my gun with 4831 powder and a 115 gr NBT at 52.0 grs i show the starting load at 48.0 gr...i started mine at 49.0 loaded 5 and went to 49.5 loaded 5 and then to 50.0....is this the best way to do it or should i go say...49.0-49.1-49.2 and so on...that is what im looking for i do apologise if i took Scorchs post the wrong way but that is how i took it

November 30, 2009, 05:28 PM	#11
azar92 Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 209	champ198, In fairness to Scorch your first post does give the impression that you are new to reloading. You don't state your experience and the question is a bit on the vague side. Realize that many people who post questions similar to yours are brand new and may not have carefully read a reloading manual. To answer your question, there is no "best" way to do it. Or at least, "best" is subjective and everyone will likely have an opinion or two. Here is one way to do it. Use a published max load from a trusted source. Start at 10% below and load a group using 3, 5, 7 shots (or whatever): you decide. Move up in 2% increments until you hit the middle-weight charges. Then move up in 1% increments. So you would load charges at 90% of max, 92%, 94%, 96%, 97%, 98%, 99% and one at max. As an example: 6.5x55 SE, 130g Nosler Accubond, Reloder 19 Max charge: 47.5g (taken from Nosler #6)* 47.5g x 90% = 42.8g Here, I'd likely bump it up to 43.0g. I like round numbers. 47.5 x 2% = 0.95 grains (round up 1.0) A 1% increase would be roughly 0.5g 43.0g 5 rounds loaded (~91% of book max) 44.0g 5 rounds loaded (~93% of book max) 45.0g 5 rounds loaded (~95% of book max) 45.5g 5 rounds loaded (~96% of book max) 46.0g 5 rounds loaded (~97% of book max) 46.5g 5 rounds loaded (~98% of book max) 47.0g 5 rounds loaded (~99% of book max) 47.5g 5 rounds loaded (100% - MAX CHARGE) * This charge is taken from memory. IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILTY TO VERIFY THIS LOAD DATA BEFORE USING.

November 30, 2009, 07:16 PM	#14
wingman Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2002 Posts: 2,108	I load 3 rounds starting with low end of manual work my way up .5 at a time. Once I find a sweet spot I will load 10 or more for testing. I shoot for groups only not hunting so never load max loads I find most rifles shoot more accurate @90% or less of max. Actually I enjoy the testing part so end up trying numerous combinations. Added Note: The addition of Laupa Brass has made an nice improvement of groups.

November 30, 2009, 11:33 PM	#15
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	My method... I like my hunting loads on the speedy side, so I use my 4 primary books (Hornady, Sierra, Lyman, Speer in that order) and write down the powders with the fastest speeds. Example= if 3000fps is the fastest in all 4 books, I write down all powders in that speed from all 4 books. I sometimes find 1 or 2 powders that are listed in all 4 books. Usually its 3 or 4 powders in 3 of the 4 books. I pick a powder I like from from the "4 book list" and start 2.5-2 gr under max.(personal preference and experience with this starting point) I go up from there in .5 gr increments till I get pressure signs. If it dont group good try the other top powder in the "4 book list". If I still dont have a good group, I'll move to the next list of powders (3 book list). It rarely takes more than a couple of powders. When I find a good load, I load it again and chrono it to make sure it wasn't a fluke. I have found my guns like max or near max loads with the top speeds. My worst group is 3/4" in my 30-06. All the rest of the guns are better. I hope anyone can understand how I do this cause I have a hard time typing what I'm thinking, but this system works very good for me. Champ...if you're interested and need a better explanation, PM me and I will try to explain better PS... I should mention I work up loads at the temp I will be hunting at. If you have a max deer load at 30 degrees and shoot a prairie dog at 95 degrees you could run into serious problems!! Last edited by reloader28; December 1, 2009 at 12:24 AM.

December 1, 2009, 01:23 AM	#16
emcon5 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 1999 Location: High Desert NV Posts: 2,850	I use the ladder method. On edit: Here is another link, with a variation of the ladder: http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html Last edited by emcon5; December 1, 2009 at 01:40 AM.