Going to start loading 223 for AR

Nick_C_S · February 17, 2016, 11:10 AM

I've been loading for handguns for over 30 years; but have yet to load a single rifle cartridge.

I have two AR-15 lowers that will be assembled soon. The remainder forthcoming shortly thereafter. I figure to have two working AR's by Spring.

Anyway, I need to buy some factory ammo that has good brass, suitable for reloading. What I wanted to know, would these be a good choice? . . .

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/412...e-of-1000-bulk

Thank you in advance,
Nick.

Gadawg88 · February 17, 2016, 11:44 AM

I personally do not care for FC stamped brass in .223. When I first started loading the caliber, I had several hundred FC American Eagle .223 cases that I was working with. I quickly found that the primer pockets tend to loosen up after just two or three loads (upper mid-range, not max). If you do some internet searching on the topic, you will see it is a commonly reported issue. I can't say with complete authority that it will be an issue with evry piece of FC stamped brass, but it was for me. If you want to stock-up on loadable brass I would look elsewhere. There are online sources for once fired LC brass at reasonable prices.

FrankenMauser · February 17, 2016, 12:45 PM

Lake City, Hornady, PPU, and Remington brass has treated me well for .223 Rem. (LC requires primer pocket swaging or reaming for crimp removal.)

FC is hit-and-miss.

JeepHammer · February 17, 2016, 06:25 PM

It depends on what you are reloading for,
Extreme accuracy takes a lot of case work,
While general target ammo doesn't require as much, or as tight of prepration.

Military crimped primers take a one time trim or swage to remove the crimp so the new primer glides into place without issues, (see primer crimp in the link you posted)
Other than that, there isn't any fundamental difference in .223 Rem & 5.56 NATO cases.
It's perfectly acceptable to use 'De-Milled' military cases for general purpose ammo, and if you do the prep work, even accuracy ammo.

An AR usually takes a full length resize so they feed correctly.
If they size to fit a LE Wilson case gauge, they usually run fine through 99.9% of ARs.

Two tips if you are loading general ammo and don't want to trim each and every case, don't use the crimp in the seating die,
Get a Lee factory crimp (Collet) die.
They don't crush case shoulders on cases that are slightly too long,
They don't fail to crimp on cases slightly too short.

General plinking & target ammo doesn't care what the headstamp says,
If you practice a lot, the headstamp doesn't matter, you can get 5 or more common reloadings out of about any USA made brass,
and if you are learning to load rifle rounds you are going to kill some learning, might as well be the lower cost ones.

BOOMST1CK · February 17, 2016, 07:42 PM

I would like to say I use a lot of milsurp brass for shooting in my AR. I have noticed that using my usual rem 7 1/2 primers that they never seat that tight and sometimes fall out during loading on the press. I switched primers up and now I am using cci 450. The cci primers seat nice and snug. Ymmv

Nick_C_S · February 17, 2016, 07:42 PM

For now, the purpose of reloading will be just range shooting at 50 to 100 yards. Super accuracy won't be a high priority. I don't plan on shooting the guns much; of course, that's what I said about my first revolver I bought 31 years, 14 more handguns, and about 150,000 rounds ago.

Dufus · February 17, 2016, 08:31 PM

You can get a thousand for less than $70 once fired from these guys.

http://monmouthreloading.com/shop/lake-city-556/

603Country · February 17, 2016, 08:31 PM

If the brass is a good price, buy it. If you don't load it hot, you should get decent use out of it.

firewrench044 · February 17, 2016, 08:34 PM

Federal brass is softer than the others
most of the time the brass will not hold the primer after
3 loadings
why waste your time, get better cases
I will use it if it is once fired and then only for hunting rounds
that will not be retrieved ( leave it there )

idriller · February 17, 2016, 08:56 PM

I have had good luck using PMC Bronze in 7.62 NATO and .223. I usually reload a case 3 times before trashing it even though I haven't had any issues. Just don't want any issues.

603Country · February 17, 2016, 10:58 PM

Well, if we are going to be picky about the brass, I'm a fan of Norma and Lapua these days. But I get fine results from Remington and Winchester, and particularly if I take the time to prep them. Nosler is also good brass, but I do believe it's made by Federal, and i suppose that explains why I don't get long case life from Nosler brass.

The biggest reason I buy Norma and Lapua is that I don't prep their brass. I got tired of turning necks and all the other stuff.

Still, if the Federal is a real good price, I'd buy some. If the Remington and Winchester is about the same price, I'd buy one of them instead. My 260 ammo presently has Remington brass, which is highly prepped. Of the last 6 rounds shot, 5 went into one hole at 100 yards and the 6th went into a medium sized hog.

rtpzwms · February 18, 2016, 12:41 AM

If you not going to shoot it much why reload at all. not a lot of margin in reloading 223. Also are your AR barrels 223 or 556? there is a significant pressure difference. you can shoot 223 in a 556 but not the other way around. by the time you get a set of die and swager (you'll want one) you could have purchased a few more rounds. if one of the barrels has a tight chamber you may need a small base die (shouldn't happen but did to me). if you want to extend the brass life you'll add annealing as well. With all of that out of the way why buy the brass? there is a LOT of it laying around and easy to get(it does require a good inspection). I think I may have purchased 100 rounds but have at least 15x that now. As you can tell I'm not big on reloading 223 I do it personally only because I shoot a lot.

mohr308 · February 18, 2016, 03:44 AM

I've been using LC and Hornady brass for all AR reloads, my AR has a tight chamber and I have about 5 reloads on most of my AR brass, probably overdue for tossing. I use my Hornady brass for my more accurate hunting rounds and LC for target.

hartcreek · February 18, 2016, 04:04 AM

Nick

I am going to be staring 5.56 shortly an I sure am not going to leak money away. I am going to take DUFAS suggestion and get 2 or 3 k.

Road_Clam · February 18, 2016, 08:40 AM

Don't waste your time seeking out premium brass for recreational AR-15 shooting. LC, Wolf, PPU are all excellent quality brass that will offer many subsequent reloading especially if you get into annealing the necks. The only brass I don't bother using is FC. FC brass is very soft and the primer pockets loosen up after only about 4 reloadings.

TimSr · February 18, 2016, 11:17 AM

This is the easiest brass to find discarded and free, but most of the discarded brass has crimped primers to deal with. I assume you're going the commercial brass route to avoid this?

Metal god · February 18, 2016, 01:19 PM

Nick , You've helped me out quite a bit when I started loading for pistol and I thank you for that . Now that you are venturing in to my area of knowledge I hope I now will be able to return the favor

I would not get those as my first cases to prep . I have found FC 223 Rem cases to be trimmed short ( some as much as .740 after I've sized them ) FL sizing rifle cases will often cause them to be longer after so the fact they are .010 short of trim to length after resizing tells me they were short to begin with . I also have found that they are either crimped at the mouth or not chamfered/deburred well . If you don't Chamfer/deburr the insides of the neck/mouth after sizing they can shave copper off the jacket of the bullet when seating . I found this out the hard way by assuming the fact I did not need to trim them meant the mouths would not need any other attention . WRONG

I recently processed 1k of mixed 223 & 5.56 brass I had been just tossing in a bucket as the head stamps were not what I normally use . Every FC 223 Rem case had the above issues ( about 250 pieces )

I don't use FC brass very often so I'm not sure how many different head stamps they have . The head stamp I found to have the issues above are in the pic below . Also note that those are the first random 3 I pulled out and one of them has a flash hole off center .

not good

EDIT I just remembered I have some Federal gold metal match in 223 . I took a look at there head stamp and its different . It has FC , year and 223 Rem . So they excluded the little circles/dots and added the year on there premium brass .

As I said these were in a bucket of mixed brass 10+ different head stamps . My plan is to run some test using the mixed brass with a known load that shoots well . I want to see how much mixing brass effects velocity , accuracy and pressure . Those test will be done in the next couple weeks .

I use almost exclusively LC brass that I buy from my local club . Main reason is you know it's only been fired once because you must remove the primer crimp before seating another primer ( this is only needed to be done the first time you reload those cases ) I started out loading for rifles and do a lot of case prep so the primer pocket swaging is not a big deal for me . well and the fact I can get 1k LC pieces for $70 helps and I get to pick the head stamp I want so they're not all mixed years .

Most commercial brass should be fine but thought I'd point out the FC ( federal ) issues I've had . As you know the more you load the more you will find what works for you and you purpose . You may very well find those cases to work just fine . My soon to be done test will likely show they shoot just fine for a inside 100yd load with no noticeable difference from the others .

WhyteP38 · February 18, 2016, 06:21 PM

I strongly recommend you also get either a Whidden Gunworks case gauge or an RCBS Precision Mic gauge to check how much you're pushing back the shoulder. I have the RCBS tool, but the Whidden tool appears to be about the same cost and better built. These tools take away the guesswork.

February 17, 2016, 11:10 AM	#1
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,522	Going to start loading 223 for AR I've been loading for handguns for over 30 years; but have yet to load a single rifle cartridge. I have two AR-15 lowers that will be assembled soon. The remainder forthcoming shortly thereafter. I figure to have two working AR's by Spring. Anyway, I need to buy some factory ammo that has good brass, suitable for reloading. What I wanted to know, would these be a good choice? . . . http://www.midwayusa.com/product/412...e-of-1000-bulk Thank you in advance, Nick. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

February 17, 2016, 12:45 PM	#3
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Lake City, Hornady, PPU, and Remington brass has treated me well for .223 Rem. (LC requires primer pocket swaging or reaming for crimp removal.) FC is hit-and-miss. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

February 17, 2016, 07:42 PM	#6
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,522	For now, the purpose of reloading will be just range shooting at 50 to 100 yards. Super accuracy won't be a high priority. I don't plan on shooting the guns much; of course, that's what I said about my first revolver I bought 31 years, 14 more handguns, and about 150,000 rounds ago. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

February 18, 2016, 12:41 AM	#12
rtpzwms Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2010 Location: OTS Posts: 1,035	If you not going to shoot it much why reload at all. not a lot of margin in reloading 223. Also are your AR barrels 223 or 556? there is a significant pressure difference. you can shoot 223 in a 556 but not the other way around. by the time you get a set of die and swager (you'll want one) you could have purchased a few more rounds. if one of the barrels has a tight chamber you may need a small base die (shouldn't happen but did to me). if you want to extend the brass life you'll add annealing as well. With all of that out of the way why buy the brass? there is a LOT of it laying around and easy to get(it does require a good inspection). I think I may have purchased 100 rounds but have at least 15x that now. As you can tell I'm not big on reloading 223 I do it personally only because I shoot a lot. __________________ Experience is what you get when you don’t get what you want.

February 18, 2016, 08:40 AM	#15
Road_Clam Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2013 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,695	Don't waste your time seeking out premium brass for recreational AR-15 shooting. LC, Wolf, PPU are all excellent quality brass that will offer many subsequent reloading especially if you get into annealing the necks. The only brass I don't bother using is FC. FC brass is very soft and the primer pockets loosen up after only about 4 reloadings. __________________ "To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"

February 17, 2016, 11:44 AM	#2
Gadawg88 Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Georgia Posts: 241	I personally do not care for FC stamped brass in .223. When I first started loading the caliber, I had several hundred FC American Eagle .223 cases that I was working with. I quickly found that the primer pockets tend to loosen up after just two or three loads (upper mid-range, not max). If you do some internet searching on the topic, you will see it is a commonly reported issue. I can't say with complete authority that it will be an issue with evry piece of FC stamped brass, but it was for me. If you want to stock-up on loadable brass I would look elsewhere. There are online sources for once fired LC brass at reasonable prices.

February 17, 2016, 06:25 PM	#4
JeepHammer Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 1,768	It depends on what you are reloading for, Extreme accuracy takes a lot of case work, While general target ammo doesn't require as much, or as tight of prepration. Military crimped primers take a one time trim or swage to remove the crimp so the new primer glides into place without issues, (see primer crimp in the link you posted) Other than that, there isn't any fundamental difference in .223 Rem & 5.56 NATO cases. It's perfectly acceptable to use 'De-Milled' military cases for general purpose ammo, and if you do the prep work, even accuracy ammo. An AR usually takes a full length resize so they feed correctly. If they size to fit a LE Wilson case gauge, they usually run fine through 99.9% of ARs. Two tips if you are loading general ammo and don't want to trim each and every case, don't use the crimp in the seating die, Get a Lee factory crimp (Collet) die. They don't crush case shoulders on cases that are slightly too long, They don't fail to crimp on cases slightly too short. General plinking & target ammo doesn't care what the headstamp says, If you practice a lot, the headstamp doesn't matter, you can get 5 or more common reloadings out of about any USA made brass, and if you are learning to load rifle rounds you are going to kill some learning, might as well be the lower cost ones.

February 17, 2016, 07:42 PM	#5
BOOMST1CK Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2014 Posts: 117	I would like to say I use a lot of milsurp brass for shooting in my AR. I have noticed that using my usual rem 7 1/2 primers that they never seat that tight and sometimes fall out during loading on the press. I switched primers up and now I am using cci 450. The cci primers seat nice and snug. Ymmv

February 17, 2016, 08:31 PM	#7
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	You can get a thousand for less than $70 once fired from these guys. http://monmouthreloading.com/shop/lake-city-556/

February 17, 2016, 08:31 PM	#8
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	If the brass is a good price, buy it. If you don't load it hot, you should get decent use out of it.

February 17, 2016, 08:34 PM	#9
firewrench044 Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2007 Location: Fort Pierce, Florida Posts: 381	Federal brass is softer than the others most of the time the brass will not hold the primer after 3 loadings why waste your time, get better cases I will use it if it is once fired and then only for hunting rounds that will not be retrieved ( leave it there )

February 17, 2016, 08:56 PM	#10
idriller Junior Member Join Date: December 8, 2014 Posts: 12	I have had good luck using PMC Bronze in 7.62 NATO and .223. I usually reload a case 3 times before trashing it even though I haven't had any issues. Just don't want any issues.

February 17, 2016, 10:58 PM	#11
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Well, if we are going to be picky about the brass, I'm a fan of Norma and Lapua these days. But I get fine results from Remington and Winchester, and particularly if I take the time to prep them. Nosler is also good brass, but I do believe it's made by Federal, and i suppose that explains why I don't get long case life from Nosler brass. The biggest reason I buy Norma and Lapua is that I don't prep their brass. I got tired of turning necks and all the other stuff. Still, if the Federal is a real good price, I'd buy some. If the Remington and Winchester is about the same price, I'd buy one of them instead. My 260 ammo presently has Remington brass, which is highly prepped. Of the last 6 rounds shot, 5 went into one hole at 100 yards and the 6th went into a medium sized hog.

February 18, 2016, 03:44 AM	#13
mohr308 Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2012 Location: Western New York Posts: 466	I've been using LC and Hornady brass for all AR reloads, my AR has a tight chamber and I have about 5 reloads on most of my AR brass, probably overdue for tossing. I use my Hornady brass for my more accurate hunting rounds and LC for target.

February 18, 2016, 04:04 AM	#14
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	Nick I am going to be staring 5.56 shortly an I sure am not going to leak money away. I am going to take DUFAS suggestion and get 2 or 3 k.

February 18, 2016, 11:17 AM	#16
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	This is the easiest brass to find discarded and free, but most of the discarded brass has crimped primers to deal with. I assume you're going the commercial brass route to avoid this?

February 18, 2016, 01:19 PM	#17
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,875	Nick , You've helped me out quite a bit when I started loading for pistol and I thank you for that . Now that you are venturing in to my area of knowledge I hope I now will be able to return the favor I would not get those as my first cases to prep . I have found FC 223 Rem cases to be trimmed short ( some as much as .740 after I've sized them ) FL sizing rifle cases will often cause them to be longer after so the fact they are .010 short of trim to length after resizing tells me they were short to begin with . I also have found that they are either crimped at the mouth or not chamfered/deburred well . If you don't Chamfer/deburr the insides of the neck/mouth after sizing they can shave copper off the jacket of the bullet when seating . I found this out the hard way by assuming the fact I did not need to trim them meant the mouths would not need any other attention . WRONG I recently processed 1k of mixed 223 & 5.56 brass I had been just tossing in a bucket as the head stamps were not what I normally use . Every FC 223 Rem case had the above issues ( about 250 pieces ) I don't use FC brass very often so I'm not sure how many different head stamps they have . The head stamp I found to have the issues above are in the pic below . Also note that those are the first random 3 I pulled out and one of them has a flash hole off center . not good EDIT I just remembered I have some Federal gold metal match in 223 . I took a look at there head stamp and its different . It has FC , year and 223 Rem . So they excluded the little circles/dots and added the year on there premium brass . As I said these were in a bucket of mixed brass 10+ different head stamps . My plan is to run some test using the mixed brass with a known load that shoots well . I want to see how much mixing brass effects velocity , accuracy and pressure . Those test will be done in the next couple weeks . I use almost exclusively LC brass that I buy from my local club . Main reason is you know it's only been fired once because you must remove the primer crimp before seating another primer ( this is only needed to be done the first time you reload those cases ) I started out loading for rifles and do a lot of case prep so the primer pocket swaging is not a big deal for me . well and the fact I can get 1k LC pieces for $70 helps and I get to pick the head stamp I want so they're not all mixed years . Most commercial brass should be fine but thought I'd point out the FC ( federal ) issues I've had . As you know the more you load the more you will find what works for you and you purpose . You may very well find those cases to work just fine . My soon to be done test will likely show they shoot just fine for a inside 100yd load with no noticeable difference from the others . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; February 18, 2016 at 01:48 PM.

February 18, 2016, 06:21 PM	#18
WhyteP38 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2005 Location: Behind a keyboard. Posts: 1,565	I strongly recommend you also get either a Whidden Gunworks case gauge or an RCBS Precision Mic gauge to check how much you're pushing back the shoulder. I have the RCBS tool, but the Whidden tool appears to be about the same cost and better built. These tools take away the guesswork.

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