Lead Casting (Again)

BlackPowderBen · August 19, 2015, 10:44 AM

Hi
I was casting round balls with pure lead today and I was getting tons of crud coming to the surface, I would skim it out, cast a ball, put the excess lead that hung onto the mold back into the furnace, and more crud would come up, and it continued to do that as the lead level dropped. I was wondering if this is happening because of rust that's on the side of the lee furnace?
I hope this makes sense!

Doc Hoy · August 19, 2015, 11:53 AM

I scrape down the sides of the furnace with the ladle.

I flux the metal pretty often too.

This has to happen more often when smelting.

I suppose I should go buy a second furnace for smelting. Too cheap though.

Rookie21 · August 19, 2015, 12:41 PM

I cast a lot of round ball. Being a competitive shooter I'm shooting the revolver, flint and cap lock each, every week sometimes twice combined with .22lr pistols in between as supplemental practice. Every time I cast lead ball I'm having to skim the surface every 10/15 minutes. Not sure why... I flux.... But it has always happened. I still get good castings and my castings shoot well so I don't worry much.

foolzrushn · August 19, 2015, 01:08 PM

If pure lead is being used, then the impurities are just from residue in the furnace? And if everything was clean, then you would get 100% of your lead into balls? Or is there always some loss?

Doc Hoy · August 19, 2015, 01:33 PM

even the cast ingots (that I made previously)

have some oxidation. It appears to me that this can create a somewhat substantial amount of skim product. Of course the flux winds up as skim as well.

bedbugbilly · August 19, 2015, 01:46 PM

Clean your pot well when the level is down - then flux when you first start out. I use a small piece of beeswax - drop it on top of the molten lead, melt and stir in. Be careful as you can get flame with any flux. A lot of folks flux with sawdust - same principle. I melt in a pot over a propane fired hot plate. During a normal casting session of maybe 2 o 3 hours - I'll flux a couple of times. I use a bottom pour Lyman ladle that I've had and used for probably 50 years. The nice thing about that type of ladle is that it's a bottom pour so IF there are any impurities/crud - it won't pour into the mold.

As far as smelting lead/lead alloy and casting - most folks use two different pots and never interchange. I haven't smelted in years as I now buy either pure lead or "range lead" that's already been smelted.

I still keep two different pots though. Both are 10 lb. cast iron (hold 10 lbs. of lead). I use one strictly for pure soft lead for my muzzleloaders and or BP cartridges and one for "range lead", which is harder, and use that one for my pistol/rifle cartridges where I want a harder bullet.

BlackPowderBen · August 19, 2015, 02:13 PM

I got all the lead out and the sides of the furnace has a rust coating, I know, I need to clean my pot better...
Anyway, can that be the cause of the junk that floats to the surface?

44 Dave · August 19, 2015, 04:41 PM

I cast with my plumber's pot and ladle. the temperature is controlled by turning the tank valve, I find that lead oxidizes faster when the temp is too high. I have an old large spoon that I shaped to better fit the pot, I scrape the pot and skim when needed.
Those pots are shaped so that you can dump the cooled left over out.
I am in the market for an electric pot to cast my hard lead for cowboy cartridges and use my lead pots for smelting and c&b lead, just to make life easier.

DD4lifeusmc · August 19, 2015, 06:40 PM

is your lead 100% pure or at least 98% and clean?

is the dross across the top a bluish gold hue?

If yes to the above. then that is pretty much normal.
No you can not flux it back in.
And you can skim till the pot is empty it will just keep forming.

Two things you can do. add a couple of oz of wheel weight lead to a full pot.. for some reason it helps stop the formation of the blue / gold dross, and really won't affect the hardness of your soft lead.
And turn the heat down a bit.

yes scrape the sides and bottom of pot now and then to bring impurities to the top and scrape them off.

BlackPowderBen · August 19, 2015, 07:35 PM

I bought the lead in ingots, 99.9% Pure.
Thanks for that reply DD4lifeusmc, it was really helpful for my situation

maillemaker · August 19, 2015, 08:57 PM

Quote:

And you can skim till the pot is empty it will just keep forming.

This.

If you are working with pure lead and a bottom-pour pot, don't even bother skimming the dross more than once.

Once I get a melt, I stir up the pot and scrape the side walls of the pot to bring up any crap, and then I skim off the crap once.

After that, the lead on the top of the pot is going to oxidize rapidly. I've heard some people pour sawdust or kitty litter into the pot to float on top of the lead and minimize oxidation, but I think if you just let a skin form and leave it be you're fine.

Like DD said, if you keep skimming the freshly-exposed lead will keep oxidizing.

From reading period ordnance manuals it seems that the dross can be refined back into lead again but I have not tried it.

I don't even bother fluxing my pot anymore. I just melt the lead and skim off the crap and go to work.

I do put a tiny snippit of silver solder (tin) into the pot. A tiny bit of tin helps with mold fill-out but does not appreciably alter the hardness of the lead.

Steve

foolzrushn · August 20, 2015, 06:52 AM

Since lead is unhealthy, what precautions are taken? Obviously one should wash hands after handling lead, but does anyone use a small fan or hood to pull vapors away without lowering the melt's temperature?

Is there a good way to get rid of the skim? I hesitate to ask. There are E-waste (old electronics) drop-offs in some localities, but I have not seen anything but electronics there. Still, as I understand it, they are mostly there for the recovery of the lead in the solder. Don't know why skim wouldn't qualify too. I saw a TV show once where E-waste was being shipped back to China. Guys were banging components off of circuit boards over the edge of 55 gallon drums of fire.

dahermit · August 20, 2015, 07:21 AM

Quote:

I do put a tiny snippit of silver solder (tin) into the pot.

Over the years I have observed that there are people who confuse soft solder with silver solder because of the color. They are not the same. Although in modern times there are some low melt solders that contain Silver, "Silver Solder" is a high temperature-high strength alloy that takes brazing temperatures to melt it. It was/is used for attaching sights and in jewelry.

hdbiker · August 20, 2015, 10:03 AM

Since good wheel weights are becoming hard to get,I began picking range lead a couple years ago.I smelt the WW and Range lead seperertly,flux and pour into a Lyman ingot mold.I store them apart.When casting pistol bullets,I mix range lead and wheel weights 50/50,with about a foot of lead free solder to help mold fill out, flux again and cast.With medium to light .38 and .45 acp bullets they work great with minimal leading after tumble lubing. hdbiker

maillemaker · August 20, 2015, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Since lead is unhealthy, what precautions are taken? Obviously one should wash hands after handling lead, but does anyone use a small fan or hood to pull vapors away without lowering the melt's temperature?

At the temperatures lead casters work at there is virtually no lead vapor.

I store my dross in a bowl and when the bowl gets full I put it in the trash.

Steve

maillemaker · August 20, 2015, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Over the years I have observed that there are people who confuse soft solder with silver solder because of the color. They are not the same. Although in modern times there are some low melt solders that contain Silver, "Silver Solder" is a high temperature-high strength alloy that takes brazing temperatures to melt it. It was/is used for attaching sights and in jewelry.

This is what I was told to buy as "silver solder".

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-Saf...0242/100342559

It's what I use for securing sights and seems to work well so far.

It's also what I cut off a tiny half-pea size piece of and toss in my pure lead melt pot to help with mold fill-out. Also makes the bullets not oxidize as much - they stay shinier. Not that that matters, but it's amazing how such a tiny amount of solder can affect the lead so much.

Steve

deerslayer303 · August 20, 2015, 11:08 AM

DD4LIFEUSMC hit the nail on the head I think. That gold blueish color usually means you have the melt to hot. If you have a bottom pour Lee pot, Mine usually works real well on about the 6 and a half mark. After the pot is up to temp and I have fluxed real good with saw dust one time, I back it down to 6.5 and cast away. You will always have some floaters, I don't pay them any attention until I add more ingot to the pot at which time I flux again with saw dust.

August 19, 2015, 10:44 AM	#1
BlackPowderBen Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Posts: 380	Lead Casting (Again) Hi I was casting round balls with pure lead today and I was getting tons of crud coming to the surface, I would skim it out, cast a ball, put the excess lead that hung onto the mold back into the furnace, and more crud would come up, and it continued to do that as the lead level dropped. I was wondering if this is happening because of rust that's on the side of the lee furnace? I hope this makes sense! __________________ "If you have to shoot, shoot! Dont talk"

August 19, 2015, 11:53 AM	#2
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	About every fifteen minutes..... I scrape down the sides of the furnace with the ladle. I flux the metal pretty often too. This has to happen more often when smelting. I suppose I should go buy a second furnace for smelting. Too cheap though. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

August 19, 2015, 12:41 PM	#3
Rookie21 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2009 Posts: 212	Ditto I cast a lot of round ball. Being a competitive shooter I'm shooting the revolver, flint and cap lock each, every week sometimes twice combined with .22lr pistols in between as supplemental practice. Every time I cast lead ball I'm having to skim the surface every 10/15 minutes. Not sure why... I flux.... But it has always happened. I still get good castings and my castings shoot well so I don't worry much.

August 19, 2015, 01:08 PM	#4
foolzrushn Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2015 Location: middle of the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 396	curious If pure lead is being used, then the impurities are just from residue in the furnace? And if everything was clean, then you would get 100% of your lead into balls? Or is there always some loss? __________________ If you feel that you're pretty important...you should think about your significance to the Universe....and re-evaluate ! certified 'soap welder'

August 19, 2015, 01:33 PM	#5
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	The lead that I use, even the cast ingots (that I made previously) have some oxidation. It appears to me that this can create a somewhat substantial amount of skim product. Of course the flux winds up as skim as well. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

August 19, 2015, 01:46 PM	#6
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Clean your pot well when the level is down - then flux when you first start out. I use a small piece of beeswax - drop it on top of the molten lead, melt and stir in. Be careful as you can get flame with any flux. A lot of folks flux with sawdust - same principle. I melt in a pot over a propane fired hot plate. During a normal casting session of maybe 2 o 3 hours - I'll flux a couple of times. I use a bottom pour Lyman ladle that I've had and used for probably 50 years. The nice thing about that type of ladle is that it's a bottom pour so IF there are any impurities/crud - it won't pour into the mold. As far as smelting lead/lead alloy and casting - most folks use two different pots and never interchange. I haven't smelted in years as I now buy either pure lead or "range lead" that's already been smelted. I still keep two different pots though. Both are 10 lb. cast iron (hold 10 lbs. of lead). I use one strictly for pure soft lead for my muzzleloaders and or BP cartridges and one for "range lead", which is harder, and use that one for my pistol/rifle cartridges where I want a harder bullet. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

August 19, 2015, 02:13 PM	#7
BlackPowderBen Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Posts: 380	I got all the lead out and the sides of the furnace has a rust coating, I know, I need to clean my pot better... Anyway, can that be the cause of the junk that floats to the surface? __________________ "If you have to shoot, shoot! Dont talk"

August 19, 2015, 04:41 PM	#8
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	I cast with my plumber's pot and ladle. the temperature is controlled by turning the tank valve, I find that lead oxidizes faster when the temp is too high. I have an old large spoon that I shaped to better fit the pot, I scrape the pot and skim when needed. Those pots are shaped so that you can dump the cooled left over out. I am in the market for an electric pot to cast my hard lead for cowboy cartridges and use my lead pots for smelting and c&b lead, just to make life easier.

August 19, 2015, 06:40 PM	#9
DD4lifeusmc Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2012 Location: Wyoming Posts: 351	is your lead 100% pure or at least 98% and clean? is the dross across the top a bluish gold hue? If yes to the above. then that is pretty much normal. No you can not flux it back in. And you can skim till the pot is empty it will just keep forming. Two things you can do. add a couple of oz of wheel weight lead to a full pot.. for some reason it helps stop the formation of the blue / gold dross, and really won't affect the hardness of your soft lead. And turn the heat down a bit. yes scrape the sides and bottom of pot now and then to bring impurities to the top and scrape them off.

August 19, 2015, 07:35 PM	#10
BlackPowderBen Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2015 Posts: 380	I bought the lead in ingots, 99.9% Pure. Thanks for that reply DD4lifeusmc, it was really helpful for my situation __________________ "If you have to shoot, shoot! Dont talk"

August 20, 2015, 06:52 AM	#12
foolzrushn Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2015 Location: middle of the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 396	lead vapors? Since lead is unhealthy, what precautions are taken? Obviously one should wash hands after handling lead, but does anyone use a small fan or hood to pull vapors away without lowering the melt's temperature? Is there a good way to get rid of the skim? I hesitate to ask. There are E-waste (old electronics) drop-offs in some localities, but I have not seen anything but electronics there. Still, as I understand it, they are mostly there for the recovery of the lead in the solder. Don't know why skim wouldn't qualify too. I saw a TV show once where E-waste was being shipped back to China. Guys were banging components off of circuit boards over the edge of 55 gallon drums of fire. __________________ If you feel that you're pretty important...you should think about your significance to the Universe....and re-evaluate ! certified 'soap welder'

August 20, 2015, 10:03 AM	#14
hdbiker Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Posts: 297	Casting Since good wheel weights are becoming hard to get,I began picking range lead a couple years ago.I smelt the WW and Range lead seperertly,flux and pour into a Lyman ingot mold.I store them apart.When casting pistol bullets,I mix range lead and wheel weights 50/50,with about a foot of lead free solder to help mold fill out, flux again and cast.With medium to light .38 and .45 acp bullets they work great with minimal leading after tumble lubing. hdbiker

August 20, 2015, 11:08 AM	#17
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,653	DD4LIFEUSMC hit the nail on the head I think. That gold blueish color usually means you have the melt to hot. If you have a bottom pour Lee pot, Mine usually works real well on about the 6 and a half mark. After the pot is up to temp and I have fluxed real good with saw dust one time, I back it down to 6.5 and cast away. You will always have some floaters, I don't pay them any attention until I add more ingot to the pot at which time I flux again with saw dust. __________________ "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson